As sleep is part of training, I figure it's past time we have a thread dedicated to it.

In the past, I've written that getting your bedroom temperature right can make a real difference in how well you sleep.  I found this out by accident.  I was testing an altitude tent and having sleep problems.  I put my travel alarm clock, which has a thermometer in it, in the tent, and saw that the temp would start out about what was normal for the room, in the low 70s F, and then would migrate to over 80 F.  Ever since then, I've kept the thermometer by my side, give it a glance before going to sleep.  It's a reference for determining what covering to use, whether the windows should be open, and whether or not to cool the room (rare is the night when I want to heat my bedroom--it has to be in the low 60's before I'll consider that)  When I'm feeling like I can't settle down, it often means either the room is warm or my body is over-worked and my pulse is high.  

Thought about the above reading this article  http://trainright.com/cant-sleep-hard-workout-race/

Thanks for the article JP. I never sleep properly on Tuesday nights after Floyd. I toss and turn until morning. I thought it was the gel I take so I stopped that. That has not helped.

Phil Maronilla said:

Thanks for the article JP. I never sleep properly on Tuesday nights after Floyd. I toss and turn until morning. I thought it was the gel I take so I stopped that. That has not helped.

Try cooling!  Cold shower, cool room, minimal covering.

Inability to sleep normally after a big effort is a thing.

Bump.

Some articles on breathing exercises that are claimed to promote relaxation and make it easier to sleep.

https://www.yogajournal.com/yoga-videos/meditation-breathing/breathing-exercises-anxiety/

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/breathing-techniques-for-relaxation-and-sleep/

After racing the track a few nights this summer, my old routines weren't working, so I read some more on what to do after hard evening workouts.

Turns out, that among other things, a hot shower, and the 'rebound effect' can help.

https://dailyburn.com/life/lifestyle/cant-sleep-night-workout-insomnia/

One night I tried a hot bath after getting home.  It wasn't magic but it helped a bit.  

Since it was summer, I was reluctant to try hot chocolate, but it seems to work

https://thedozyowl.co.uk/hot-chocolate-before-bed/

Now, if there was just a good way to determine what bed works best for each individual.

Notpot

I'm a fan of a nuun recovery tab (basically a 300mg magnesium tab). I don't use it often, but when I'm in what feels like a fatigue hole, it helps me stay in shortwave sleep longer (thanks to my whoop I can actually quantify this)

I’ve also read that bananas can help. A quick google search yielded this link. 

I find a nice five hour ride as close to threshold as you can keep it usually does the trick
#YMMV

Matt Budofsky said:

I'm a fan of a nuun recovery tab (basically a 300mg magnesium tab). I don't use it often, but when I'm in what feels like a fatigue hole, it helps me stay in shortwave sleep longer (thanks to my whoop I can actually quantify this)

There is some evidence of magnesium working

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/does-magnesium-help-you-sleep/

The Nuun tablets have about 50% more magnesium citrate than is considered the minimum.

https://nuunlife.com/products/nuun-rest

Seriously.

Great timing on this thread revival, I'm in the market for a new mattress.  Anyone have any suggestions? Favorites?

@JohnMalcolmson are they full spectrum or isolate?  I've used the full spectrum from Floyds of Leadville after long rides, but my legs feel "lazy" the next day.  

GregHoge said:

@JohnMalcolmson are they full spectrum or isolate?  I've used the full spectrum from Floyds of Leadville after long rides, but my legs feel "lazy" the next day.  

Not sure. 3 mg of melatonin/20 mg CBD.

I had some samples of Floyds and they put me on the couch, kind of a productivity killer for me. Notpot feels effect-free, maybe a feeling of contentment the next morning? Not sure about long term efficacy, but there's no withdrawal.

GregHoge said:

Great timing on this thread revival, I'm in the market for a new mattress.  Anyone have any suggestions? Favorites?

Greg, 
     I don't.  And I'm endlessly frustrating by options and offerings and "recommendations."  It's so hard to find good information, and many of the online companies have guarantees that are so wasteful, it doesn't seem right to even try them out.  And, of course, both the sales models and manufacturing models for mattresses discourage honest appraisals and serious constrain choice.  

     That written, the few times I've looked at Wirecutter, they seem to at least try to make an honest effort.

Here's what they published.  https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-mattress/

     In my own experience, I wanted a little more plush than our current mattress offered, so we tried a 'pillow top' thing.  It was comfy but unworkable. Might be great in the middle of winter, but it's way too warm in the summer.  We also tried a mattress pad that was supposed to cool a bit thanks to bamboo fibers and a 3D quilted structure.  It might work some.  Been interested in cooling pillows as well, but haven't really investigated them yet.  

     Heat can be an issue depending on the mattress material. Memory foam in particular can function as an insulator, and that can be a problem.  

     Love to know what other people do.  

My dog has a Casper mattress (i know, i know- tell me you're a millennial without telling me you're a millennial) and when I lay on it with him and I also find myself thinking that it's wildly comfortable. If it was longer and I could fully fit on it, I'd probably be fighting my dog to sleep on it most nights

There's also a Casper store in City Point in Downtown Brooklyn if you want to try it out before you buy.

I've got a new mattress on the way.

A Leesa Sapira Hybrid Mattress, or the Costco equivalent

https://www.leesa.com/products/leesa-hybrid-mattress
https://www.costco.com/leesa-11"-hybrid-mattress-medium-firm.product.100735133.html

I'm a bit worried about warmth, but I am definitely hip to try a foam-topped innerspring design.  I tend to sleep on my back, so this should be good for the way I sleep. 

Memory foam can be warm, but with the cover and top layer of foam breathable, the reports I've read on Wirecutter and Consumer Reports suggest heat retention isn't an issue.  

Still displeased with the state of information on mattresses.  There are, for example, at least three websites that sell themselves as authoritative, but are totally opaque about how they make money.  I'm guessing they earn commissions on affiliate sales (as does Wirecutter), but almost certainly are pay-for-play, as their reviews are so gentle.  All the same, they do have some decent sleep advice on them. They are sleepfoundation.org, sleepadvisor.org, mattressadvisor.com

@mugwump I've been casually looking for a new mattress for a while now and 100% agree that the review information out there is basically just a bunch of fluff pieces.  

One thing I did find helpful is researching the actual tech (inner spring, memory foam, latex, etc) used in the mattress vs the brand.

What made you go with the Leesa?

@GregHoge

Originally, I had been interested in memory foam, but was too worried about heat retention, so decided to look into innersprings again.

I had been looking at an innerspring model from Saatva which CR and Wirecutter had reviewed pretty well, and then there were several innerspring models that CR had reviewed pretty well, too.  Saatva was a bit on the high side, the other innersprings were much cheaper, but I was concerned about durability for the cheap ones.

WIth the above, I had been checking mattress firm, PC Richard, Raymour and Flanigan and wasn't confident in going with them because of the various sales pitches.  So, with the hesitation, I started looking at hybrids.

Leesa was well-reviewed by CR and Wirecutter.  Leesa having two breathable-seeming layers at the top of their multi-layer setup intrigued me.  And I believe the CR review didn't flag heat retention as an issue.  

HEre's the Wirecutter review.  The Leesa has done well in their hybrid roundup for a few years.  (Casper, btw, got totally panned by them).  The Sapira is in the middle of Leesa's offerings.  they have a version with one less layer and fewer springs, and a version with one more layer and more springs.  I nearly went for the more expensive one, but wondered if I was over-doing it.

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/leesa-mattress/

Now, could you share what you learned?

@mugwump my brother has a Leesa and absolutely loves it (he's a casual athlete so he isn't focused on recovery so much, but has never been a good sleeper). We are actually sold on a Leesa for our new mattress, so we are now debating which specific mattress and what thickness

I should add to the mattress discussion that one might have 'ecosystem' issues to consider as well.

One such issue is mattress height.  This matters insofar as a new mattress plays well with existing sheets and other aspects of furniture and such.  With the current mattress I have, it was actually a few inches lower than the previous, so it didn't play well with the sheets we had at the time, and with new queen-size fitted sheets in general.  So I made sure that the next was at least 2" taller.  

Another issue is how the mattress is or isn't used during the day.  One such use is sitting on the side of the mattress to do things like putting on shoes and such.  There's the potential when it comes to all-foam that sitting on the side for that to be awkward or possibly even uncomfortable.

The new mattress is supposed to arrive today.  

As it's rolled in a box, it's supposed to take an hour or so to expand and could possibly take a few days to completely firm up.  There's also the issue of "off-gassing" or odors coming from the mattress.  Leesa claims the off-gassing should dissipate quickly.  

Funny story about sleep; I’d always though of myself as a Cat 1 sleeper. Never had trouble and always felt like I slept well. A while ago Lisa noticed I was apneic and suggested I get a sleep study. Off I went to the sleep lab only to discover I had “mild to moderate” apnea. I would have done nothing because I don’t have any daytime symptoms (sleepiness, loss of mental acuity) but untreated OSA is a disqualifying condition to renew my pilots medical. So I got a CPAP machine (Google it) and after a month of struggling am finally sleeping well with and HOLY SMOKES. I feel like the quality of my sleep is doubled. I wonder how many watts apnea cost me off my FTP when I was racing.

tldr; if you aren’t happy with your sleep quality it’s worth looking into.

I got the Leesa hybrid mattress just before we headed out to Memphis.  It comes rolled up in a big box and weighs about 100lbs.  At least I think that's the shipping weight.  Kudos to UPS for getting it to our door.

 As we don't have storage room for an extra mattress, and  we waited until we got back.  We unrolled it last Saturday morning.  Set up is pretty easy.  It starts to 'inflate' the moment you start unrolling it.  Getting off the plastic covering is pretty easy.  Takes about an hour or so to get to full height it seemed.  The 'off gassing' seemed to go smoothly, though it took several nights before a faint hint of some kind of 'new bed smell' disappeared.

So far, so good.  

Supposedly, the Leesa mattress firms up a bit after a few days.  Can't say I noticed, but I assume our sensations are adjusting as mattresses get harder or softer.  I'd expect that springs, being metal, stiffen up over time, while the compressible tops stop expanding, so most mattresses are probably both stiffer and saggier as they age.  

Lying down, the memory foam seems to contour my back far more than a fully sprung mattress does.  When lying on my back, It's most noticeable in the small of my back and how it feels like my legs are higher than my torso.  Side sleeping is much more comfortable as there's give between my shoulder and the springs.  

The only concern I have is that it might be a bit warmer than a more traditional inner spring mattress.  It might be a little, but I'm not sure.  I might deploy the 'cooling' mattress topper we had on the previous mattress just to see if we notice anything.  

Back to this thread, this time, for portable, stowable sleeping place.

My wife has Covid.  I've been using my kids' trundle bed mattress since Friday night.  Ooof.  No enough cushion.

So, with guests and the future in mind (I might have Covid next time), I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions for portable, stowable sleeping solutions.  Air mattresses are tricky because it seems they're either over-inflated or under inflated.  Futon-type things don't get small enough.  

Is there anything hybrid-y that possibly has a some non-air and air cushion?

BTW, back to my Leesa experience.

13 months in, and I'm quite happy with it.  I did put the vented mattress-topper above the memory foam pretty much right after I posted 12 months ago.  I guess it helps a bit, but at this point, I don't notice.

Idk about a hybrid type of cushion, but other options are like a camping sleeping pad/mattress (It can be either inflatable or foam, but stays pretty firm and packs downpretty small) or the Japanese style futons (they're basically a roll up mattress you put directly on the floor).

Last night, I took out an old Therm-A-Rest camping air mattress (it probably is 1.5" thick when fully inflated) and placed it under the mattress I'm using.  It was a big help, but still not great.  

we got back from vacation and our ac upstairs isn't working (its a cool 87 degrees up there) so we camped out downstairs for the past couple of nights in the cool air. We have an air mattress from target that gets us like 90% of the way to comfortable. We ended up throwing a couple layers of very soft blankets underneath us and it got us like another 5% of the way. Definitely not the best night sleep I've ever gotten, but definitely worked in a pinch and I woke up feeling pretty spry

Does 4-7-8 breathing really help people fall asleep faster?

"The simple technique involves breathing in for four seconds, holding the breath for seven seconds, and then breathing out for eight seconds."