Kissena Forum Archive

Summer group ride in Europe

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I've been floating a crazy idea around the club that is starting to not sound so crazy after all.

I want to ride in the French Alps in August and think it would be awesome to get a small group of us to go. Imagine looking sharp on the Galibier! 

I am traveling in Europe with the family in early August and my idea was to extend my stay to ride bikes in the French Alps. Here was the general idea:

My mother has an apartment on Lake Geneva and the family leaves on Aug 8. People would join by flying into Geneva and we’d stay a few days in Switzerland (for free at mom's place on lake) while everyone adjusts to the time change and we can do rides in area. The area is beautiful with manicured roads and far less humidity than NY.  

Afterward we can take train to St Jean de Maurienne in France where I know of a reasonable bike friendly hotel. Town is at base of Madeline, Col du Telegraph, Galibier and near Alpe d’Huez. We could ride there for several days and then head back to Geneva (unless people want to fly in and out of Lyon). So maybe a week or so total?

Looking at travel around the 8th to the 15th I found flights for around $750 (some for less, but you have to account for bike fees unless you are renting a bike). Train travel to the hotel would be about $60 each way. The hotel is about $50 per person per night (twin room). 

I am imagining we can do this with a handful of people. LMK what you think!
When flying to europe with a bike I prefer to fly with a Euro airline. They typically don't charge for bikes - they just consider them part of your checked baggage allowance. However if you exceed that allowance then you will have to pay a special bike rate. I have flown with Alitalia and Iberia a lot and never been charged.
Brussels Air offer some of the least expensive flights to Geneva and they do NOT charge for bikes.

When booking with an airline - double check the route codeshare. 
e.g. If you are flying on a Brussels Air plane then you will avoid bike fees.
However if you buy a Brussels Air ticket for a route that is operated by a partner (United Airlines) then you will check in at the United desk and they will charge $200 each way.

A handy nugget of general info. If an airlines route code is XXnnn (XX = their airline code and nnn = 3 digit route code) then that is a route that they are operating. But if the route code is XXnnnn (XX is their airline code but the 4 digit route code means a partner airline is running that route)
@PatrickGrehan I would looooooooove to join you, but we already have travel plans for this summer. Would you be open to trying to get something on the calendar for next year?

Kissena Altitude Training Camp - update

On Friday August 9th, Jeff Condon and Anthony Ott are flying into Milan and driving a rental car 3 hours to meet me in St. Jean de Maurienne in the south of France. From there we are riding for three days and plan on hitting several of the classic Alpine climbs including Col de Croix de Fer, Col de Galibier, Alpe d’Huez, and whatever else our legs allow. 

On Monday we head to the Italian side of the Alps to stay in Susa. From there we will hit the Col de Finestre as well as a climb that has never been featured in a Grand Tour, but has been reviewed as spectacular: Colle de Nivolet. 

Here is a taste of some of the climbs:

Galibier
https://youtu.be/fLzT8pY1USg

Fienstre 
https://youtu.be/N6YCnwZQJkM
Also from GCN who call it the most epic climb ever
https://youtu.be/PKpqe1BDeCU

Madeline
https://youtu.be/coHvLOqJRgo

Croix de Fer 
https://youtu.be/aqK9s1epBqw

Glandon
https://youtu.be/kDU69B5Iw3o

Nivolet
https://youtu.be/udoAzoCPpl8

On Wednesday the 14th, Anthony and I return home while Jeff heads to the Lake Como area to ride the climbs of the Giro di Lombardia. 

By the end, we expect to be totally exhausted but with permanent grins on our faces. 

Plus decent tans. Weather on the weekend was pretty hot, on the valley floor from Bourg-San-Maurice to Moutier was 32+C and the final climb up to Val Thorens was also 30 degrees. Take plenty of scratch/nuun and sun tan lotion...Looks like an epic trip! 
I've stayed in St Jean de Maurienne before. The riding from there is fantastic. What you planned is going to be wonderful and memorable! Another time, consider a Swiss training camp! 

Jeff, Anthony and I had a great time in the Alps last week. I am sure they will have some of their own stories to tell. Here are some highlights and some photos. I brought a GoPro with me and may also post some video when I have time to do so.


We started our trip in St Jean de Maurienne in the French Alps. This was the start town for the tour stage that got abruptly shortened at the Iseran this year. We chose this town because it is close to a number of classic climbs. The town gives out cycling specific route maps and even hosts a website where you can download GPX files for the climbs. Pretty cool. We stayed at the Hotel St. George which caters to cyclists and motorcyclists. It had a couple of cool amenities like a garage to lock up the bike, showers to use post ride (after we had already checked out), and a free laundry service to clean your kit. 



St Jean de Maurienne loves cyclists



They wanted us to remember the tour had just been in town.



Kissena kit getting ready for another day

Our five day adventure through the Alps was supposed to start on Friday, but was delayed to Saturday when Jeff’s Delta flight was cancelled, forcing him to arrive a day later. He and Anthony were flying into Milan and were supposed to meet up where Jeff would rent a car and drive to St Jean de Maurienne. Anthony, who had never been to Europe, was able to get to the small town to pick up his rental bike, but there was no easy way for him to get to France so I drove 3 hours each way to pick him up. Our first day was a non-starter. 

On Saturday morning, Anthony and I headed up the Croix de Fer via the Col de Glandon. This amounted to about 40 miles with over 6000 ft of climbing. The last couple of K were shrouded as the peaks were in the clouds. It was a great workout but the lack of a view kept us hungry for more. 


Things were starting to look foggy


First the Glandon


Then the Croix de Fer


The actual steel cross was barely visible (but check out that blue belly!)


We got back to the hotel at noon when Jeff arrived and got his bike set up. We decided to head up the Col de Madeline via the Lacets and Col de Chaussy. The Lacets are a gorgeous set of switchbacks.  The secret path to the overlook above the switchbacks was worth finding. After Anthony sprinted to the top of the Col de Chaussy he turned back to the hotel while Jeff and I headed the additional 13 km to the top of the Madeline giving us over 8000 ft of climbing in just under 50 miles of riding. 



The Lacets were beautiful



Climbing the Lacets



Did I mention it was hot?



Col de Chaussy



The French climbs had markers, so you knew how much suffering you had to do. The Italian climbs kept you guessing. I couldn't decide which I preferred.



Madeline selfie



Madeline summit



Jeff descends like Nibali


On Sunday we headed out to the Col de Telegraphe and Galibier. 


This year, the Tour went over the Galibier from the south side and ended in Valloire, where they had some cool hay sculptures.


The climb up the Galibier was tough because we had a headwind thought much of it. All our suffering when climbing was rewarded with spectacular views and riveting descents. 


The requisite shot


Just wow


The above is the Galibier, but we all agreed that descending the Telegraph was freaking awesome. It’s almost as if the road switchbacks were designed to be ridden by cyclists with no fear. 



The Galibier is such a popular climb that there were photographers at the side of the road from whom you could buy their pictures of you climbing. I couldn’t help myself. 

Jeff and Anthony had hoped to climb Alpe d’Huez after Galibier Sunday, but given that had ridden over 60 miles and climbed over 8,500 ft, driving an hour an a half away to get in another epic climb would have to wait for another trip. Missing out on riding Friday meant something had to go, and this trip it was the Alpe. Sunday night we headed to Susa, Italy and checked in at the Hotel Napoleon. This too was a cyclist and motorcyclist hotel, although there were plenty of motorcycles, while we were the only ones on bikes. 


Welcome to Susa

Charming town


We awoke on Monday to stormy clouds but nevertheless headed 1.5 hours north to ride the Colle del Nivolet, which cycling-challenge.com insisted was the most beautiful climb in the Alps. We were not disappointed. This climb was more beautiful than the Galibier. What we hadn’t realized was that it was the site of this year’s Giro stage 13 to Ceresole Reale. Even thought the race took place two months ago, there were still plenty of pink bikes and other signs celebrating the Giro. One benefit of riding a Giro route is that what the above website described as a poorly paved farm road had been newly repaved. Given the reported 15% grade, it was much appreciated. 


Jeff taking pictures of Patrick


Patrick taking pictures of Jeff

The Giro stage from June was everywhere


He didn't ride the Giro, but Bernal has a fan club in Locana. Probably because he was on Androni-Giacottoli before he was with Sky/Ineos


Even the house in the back salutes the Giro


RedBeard was here

This is beautiful. Just perfectly beautiful.

On two separate occasions we thought that rain would cut Monday’s climb short. A few K from the summit the heavens opened up and we ducked into a restaurant and had the most expensive Antipasto we’ve ever eaten. They were taking advantage of us, but we were cold and wet and appreciated the opportunity to wait til the rain passed. I only realized later that this restaurant was 200 meters from the Giro stage finish line. When we left the restaurant the sky cleared up and we finished our ascent. (Because we were in a national park, the Giro did not climb to summit - we climbed higher than they did). Last note on this climb was the descent. We literally descended for 25 miles with only a few short rises on the way back to the car. We had not realized that even the run into the “real” climbing had been a false flat. It was crazy how we could descend for so long. It was also amazing how quickly I would forget how long we had been suffering on the climbs. We totaled about 50 miles with over 7000 ft of climbing. 



Yum



The three of us



Are those rainclouds?



Reaching the damn



This climb is insane



The summit



The view



Shakedry jacket was perfect for the chilly descents



Anthony learned to descend like a madman



The descents were awesome

It was probably a good thing that I could forget the pain as the final day together we climbed the Colle del Finestre, made famous by Froome’s stage 19 Giro winning attack last year. This is a brutal 19K climb that started less than a mile from the entrance of our hotel. Not only did we not get to warm up, but the initial hairpins were unforgiving. I regretted not having an easier gear than my 34x28. The last 7k of this climb are on gravel. I got fewer pictures of this climb for the simple reason that the first part never leveled off long enough to take a picture and was so wooded that there were never any vistas to take pictures of anyways. 


Yes, that is gravel


Can you spot Anthony?


Can you spot Jeff?


Summit!


The summit


The descents reward us for all that climbing


Still looks like Nibali


Welcome to Sestriere


Almost done!

On Wednesday, Anthony and I were on planes heading back to NY while Jeff headed to the Lombardia region for even steeper slopes. This was a great trip and I am already thinking about other European cycling trips in other areas. Hopefully these stories and photos will inspire you to find your own adventures on dramatic roads far from home. 

Playing catchup. Anthony told me about the trip while traveling off to CX races together. Looks awesome. I mentioned to him about having friends/teammates etc... come to Tuscany and ride. I have a bike sitting at my sisters place (she lives about an hour south of Florence - via car/train/bus), with some cycling clothes (shoes/helmet) etc... If there is interest I can start looking into it. Mid/LateMay into early June and Mid September are probably the best times to go before the place becomes a hellhole of tourists and crazy temps.
Playing catchup. Anthony told me about the trip while traveling off to CX races together. Looks awesome. I mentioned to him about having friends/teammates etc... come to Tuscany and ride. I have a bike sitting at my sisters place (she lives about an hour south of Florence - via car/train/bus), with some cycling clothes (shoes/helmet) etc... If there is interest I can start looking into it. Mid/LateMay into early June and Mid September are probably the best times to go before the place becomes a hellhole of tourists and crazy temps.
I am *always* interested in travel in Italy.
More than one member told me they would have travelled to Europe this past summer had it been a less hilly route. Tuscany would be beautiful. Convincing my better half that I would need to go a second year in a row might be a stretch, but then again I also have family in Florence
@PatrickGrehan
We should point out that while Tuscany lacks high mountain passes it is extremely hilly. With the exception of the plains surrounding Lucca the road is usually pointing either upwards or downwards and there are plenty of climbs in the 5K-7K range and it is not uncommon to find that the last K of the climb the road builder thought 'F**k it' and just shot for the summit resulting in grades of 12,14,16%. I know because I have zig-zagged my way up them (once while hungry and curious goats tried to make a meal of my jersey).

I would throw Umbria out there as a location. Basically the same terrain as Tuscany, but fewer tourists and therefore cheaper. Awesome wine too.
Was too gonna mention that Tuscany is hilly and steep AF.
Tuscany is mega beautiful, and hilly. Umbria too. If you want flat, try Puglia. 

keep in mind Garrigan is running tours on the coast of Slovenia.  http://www.okolobike.com/

I have a different friend who runs a Tenerife training camp every Feb if anyone is interested.


For me the allure is that I have a bike waiting for me in tuscany (although I need to replace the front brake cable and housing) And clothing. But then again getting places isn't too hard it's not like driving to say CA from NY. Lol.
I am willing to admit that I don’t really know how hilly Tuscany is on a bike, but I wasn’t suggesting that it was Netherlands flat either. I was simply saying that some members thought that attacking four alpine climbs in four days was too hilly. I gather from the comments above that these same members would not like Tuscany (although I suspect the opportunity to regroup is easier than on a 19k climb)
I’d like to, for patriotic reasons, amend what Jules said. It’s Croatia, not Slovenia, which has the beautiful coast (my wife is Croatian). Slovenia has the mountains and is beautiful in other ways. I spend a lot of time in Croatia and can attest to the beauty of riding there. Okolo is expensive, but you’ll enjoy it. 
Where I live in Fribourg, Switzerland is closer to what Tuscany is like. Hilly and beautiful. Flatter rides can be found. Though flat is impossible. 
I’d also like to add that a friend of mine runs a tour that includes the Maratona della Dolomites gran fondo. Places are open for 2020. 
Also.... consider Provence. Spectacular riding there. And if you do decide to climb a big one, there’s Ventoux. 
I’d also like to add that if you enjoy gravel, Croatia has tons of that. 
I've up for signing up for Maratona della Dolomites if other kissenistas come too.
Eloy— do it!! Then visit me :)
Here’s the website of my friend. 
https://www.brevet.cc/cycling-holidays/sportive-holidays/maratona-dles-dolomites-enel-2020-deposit/
I'd like to ride the Maratona but doing the Etape again this year. 
Provence for sure.  Was there in September (did Ventoux!, the 1st 2/3's are no joke) and the wineries, back roads, weather, food ... I cold go on.
Ventoux is a fucking beast of a mountain. 9% average without rest for kilometer after kilometer. If you aren’t fit, like I was when I did it, it hurts a lot. A real mind-fucker of a climb, too. It’s for time trialiats who like going uphill. More Dumoulin than Pantani. But to get to the famous turn before the last stretch, and then to get to that tight steep right hander at the top... wow. Truly epic. And the riding in the region is absolutely lovely, and very bike-friendly. 
I'd like to ride the Maratona but doing the Etape again this year. 
How where you able to register? I tried 15 minutes after the opening of the registration and it was full already. I will be most likely in Provence around that time. My mother lives in Aix-en-Provence (a fantastic cycling destination), I'd love to to go ride Ventoux while there.