Local Category V Racing Power Numbers and Miscellany

May 04, 2021 at 08:15 PM

Hey, with the race season starting soon, lots of new members, and nearly no group rides to use as a barometer, I'm thinking that we should post power (w/kg) only and times for many of the classic local category V races, so that new riders can consider the fitness needs for those events.

By "classic" I mean Prospect, Floyd, Branchbrook, Central, and Rockleigh.

By "miscellany" it might be great to put in what was the biggest surprises you had when showing up for your first races. anything. Like temperature, crowds, pinning on numbers, dealing with officials, nerves, breakfasts that didn't agree, etc.

The numbers I think would be helpful are:

(for cat V races)

PROSPECT

Average power in watts per kilogram to climb the hill with the pack.
Time it takes to climb the hill in the pack ("the real PP hill" on Strava).

Normalized and average power in w/kg to finish in the field.
Elapsed time for the typical race.

FBF
Normalized and average power in w/kg to finish in the field.
Elapsed time for the typical race.

what is the typical hardest 1m and 5m average power spikes in a race

B'Brook

Normalized and average power in w/kg to finish in the field.
Elapsed time for the typical race.

what is the typical hardest 1m and 5m average power spikes in a race

CENTRAL

Average power in watts per kilogram to climb the hill with the pack.
Time it takes to climb the hill in the pack.

Normalized and average power in w/kg to finish in the field.
Elapsed time for the typical race.

ROCKLEIGH

Normalized and average power in w/kg to finish in the field.
Elapsed time for the typical race.

what is the typical hardest 1m and 5m average power spikes in a race

Nathaniel Miller

May 05, 2021 at 03:31 PM

For an old-school Prospect Park assessment, when I started racing again many years ago, I was told that if I can ride one loop solo in 10 minutes or less, then I’m ready.

mugwump

May 05, 2021 at 07:01 PM

@Matt Budofsky @Nathaniel Picard Busky You were both in the Category V race of the Kissena Fall Classic on 10/5/19. Could you take a look at your Strava files and determine what efforts you put in during that race?

Here are the race results: https://www.road-results.com/race/12332

@JohnOlsson @RichFreeman @RichardCornetta @ErikPfiffner
You did the 3/4 race of the Kissena Fall Classic on 10/5/19. Looking at the numbers, it appears the 3/4 pack doesn't go up the hill much slower than the 1/2/3, but that the rest of the race is slower, which is interesting. The race averaged 25.1mph.

To get things going, here's what the numbers were the last time I raced in Prospect. It's not the V field, but...

It was the Kissena Fall Classic, Saturday, October 5, 2019
Field 1/2/3. Distance 40.5

The Hill "The Real PP Hill" on Strava 4.23 w/kg - 6.24 w/kg.
Time it took to climb hill: 1:11-1:17
Effort for the hill: AP=2.73 w/kg NP=3.49 w/kg
Strava "weighted" AP= 3.31 w/kg
Lap of Prospect varied from 7:17-7:44

Race time: 1:31:27 (the winner did 1:30:28, finishing solo ahead of an 11-man break)
I was 26th in the race, 13th in the field sprint. Jeff Condon was 27th.

Matt Budofsky

May 05, 2021 at 07:05 PM

time to go back and dig through old strava files to pull out the data!

My memory is hazy but I vaguely remember the Cat 5 Prospect Park lap times hovering around the 8-9 minute mark in 2019, so around 40ish minutes for the race with an average speed of around 24-25 mph.

Jules

May 05, 2021 at 07:18 PM

More relevant than power numbers - if anyone can find KCC Alum Marc Bertucco's instructional in-race video on youtube of a race in Prospect Park.

mugwump

May 05, 2021 at 08:29 PM

Jules said:

More relevant than power numbers - if anyone can find KCC Alum Marc Bertucco's instructional in-race video on youtube of a race in Prospect Park.

Ah, yes. I've been looking.

I"ve asked Marc.

He doesn't know.

I think it was with Brendan Rigby's GoPro. I found Brendan's youtube page, don't see the video.

Regardless, I'm happy to either meet in person or do a webinar on what to expect.

Jules

May 05, 2021 at 10:13 PM

it’s on the forum here somewhere… an unlisted video.

mugwump

May 05, 2021 at 10:25 PM

Jules said:

it’s on the forum here somewhere… an unlisted video.

I looked and you last mentioned it in 2018 in the Castelli Series thread

I think this is it, but the annotations seem to have been lost

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vQgYqWsygI

In the guidebook for the Milk Ras I did, they thought it wise to include a joke about the race: "I didn't realize Ireland looked like a racer's arse." A quick scan of the above video; I can recognize many racers that way.

I also found this on the same page, a cat5 race in Prospect on June 9, 2018.

Our @ErikPfiffner got third. Here's his race report: "Thanks for the mention! It was a quick Cat 5 race averaging 26.1 mph. Only being 5 laps, I was able to focus on my positioning on the final lap. I was roughly 5th heading up the hill and hopped on the wheel of a very strong CRCA GF Capital rider. I was red lined and attempted to pass him when he moved a meter over, forcing me to stop pedaling (not sure if I even had any left in me to truly pass)...overall very happy with 3rd! "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QETvJEmqLI

Jules

May 05, 2021 at 11:05 PM

That looks like Rigby, not Marc. Marc would never ride in the wind to get to 3rd wheel at the start of any road race.

mugwump

May 05, 2021 at 11:57 PM

Jules said:

That looks like Rigby, not Marc. Marc would never ride in the wind to get to 3rd wheel at the start of any road race.

Here's what I found from you in June, 2018

Jules Cyclist

June 2018

I'll cx post this under skills but this race video is worth watching for the new 4's & 5's

It's an annotated "how to race in the pack" video by Kissena alum Marc Bertucco.

That's what I was basing it off of. (and it is cross posted in Skills)

I'm obsessive enough that I tracked it down in the L & C thread from May, 2014.

If you start from March of that year, you have some interesting notes on first racing with the 1/2/3s.

Jules

May 06, 2021 at 03:02 AM

wow, nice detective work! I wonder why the captions got stripped? I remember Marc spent a ton of time on those

Jules

May 06, 2021 at 03:10 AM

What a crying shame.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/11/27/18114581/youtube-annotations-discontinued-january-2019

RichFreeman

May 06, 2021 at 11:22 AM

Didn't have a PM at the time in 2019 - but the last Branchbrook race in 2020 I did;

40 minutes, 218w np, ended up 7th.

From the last (and only real) corner on the last lap:

40 kph & 332w (avg to the finish), about 1.5km.

Nathaniel Picard Busky

May 10, 2021 at 04:56 PM

That last PP race in 2019 I didn't yet have a power meter but here's the data I do have:

https://www.strava.com/activities/2764710568/

Cat 5

Length: ~42-43 minutes / ~17 miles

Average Speed: 23.9mph

Estimated Average Power: 293W

Average Heart Rate: 138bpm

Result: 45-55

Notes: Pretty sure I spent half of the last lap on the front for some reason, tried to do something tactical for @Matt Budofsky most likely and it didn't reeeally work.

"The Real PP Hill" segment (.44miles, 73ft elev, 2.7%) times:

1:31, 17.5mph, 100bpm

1:24, 18.8mph, 138bpm

1:24, 18.8mph, 164bpm

1:26, 18.4mph, 172bpm

1:35, 16.7mph, 187bpm (I most likely did something stupid tactically and phoned it in for this last one)

"Prospect Park Race Lap" segment (3.38miles):

8:46

8:09

8:18

7:56

Not sure how fit I was at this point in the year and I definitely didn't prepare for this race at all. I weighed roughly 150-155lbs and was riding a 2017 Cannondale Synapse budget build.