No, it was fairly fast. With that many crashes, it's really hard to get back on. As you can see in this RIVETING video, there were lots of attacks:

http://vimeo.com/37907961

Most of it is, obviously, totally boring (cameraman is strong though!). But it contains multiple examples of what Marc talks about as "30 meter heroes", including the one point where I follow a Hudson (19:30) b/c we were gonna "get the party started"....which ends almost IMMEDIATELY b/c his attack is a swerving sprint! Now I'm not smooth-as-Cancellara but at least I was able to keep going. He exploded almost immediately. I mean, why bother? Anyway, Volbach crushes probably the longest attack of the day, distance and time wise. He blasts off at about 25:00 and stays away about two and a half minutes. Too bad those guys he went by when they had a small gap couldn't latch on. The Jacob's patented "attack up 110 and stay away" lasted until.....right after the crest's downhill. You're not dominating cat 5's anymore, dudes!

I have no idea about the injuries in the 5's. I would say visit nyvelocity for possible info, but, well....you know how that rabbithole is.

word from Velocity is that Rog needed stitches. That's all I got.

Uhm....I sent Anthony my response to his latest email and this is the bizarre response I got:

I will give you free racing if you give me video for all of the races

Anthony Van Dunk
avd@panix.com
917.698.3238



On Mar 6, 2012, at 8:20 PM, Marc Bertucco wrote:

Some thoughts...

I don't think making races shorter helps improve the safety of the field. If anything, making races longer, not only eliminates some folks who are less fit, but also keeps the field calmer because they've got "a long way to go." It's like the difference between a start of a crit and a 75-mile road race. By making the cat 5s race just 2 laps, you are forcing all that excited nervous energy into 2 laps of action.

There's a video of the 3/4 field, racing through the crash. The folks with 1/2 a brain and compassion for their fallen riders slowed and took note. The jerk-holes went full-speed, nearly running over some of the crash victims with only one thought on their mind, the finish line. I don't think the 3/4 results should stand.

https://player.vimeo.com/video/37906740

Just my 2 cents...

-Marc Bertucco

that is really wierd

What a jackass.

I actually sent him an email earlier today. Haven't heard back. Here it is:

"Hello,

I was in the 3/4 race on Sunday. Have you watched this video?

http://vimeo.com/37906740

Starting around 1:50 (after the 5th crash in our field), we come upon the cat 5 crash. Not only did the moto do the completely wrong thing by zooming through the carnage (including a man writhing in pain, waving his helmet in the air to avoid being plowed into), he then speeds up immediately, rewarding those riders (two Hudsons, a neon dude, another guy in red who makes the guy lying on the ground injured move his leg so he doesn't get hit...and others) who flew through the scene and then stood up to sprint once they saw a lot of people had actually slowed (or stopped) and they had a gap.

I think if you watch this video, there's no way you would post "results" from the 3/4 race as official. It's a very disturbing video of a very unfortunate race.

Thank you for your attempts to rectify the situations. I believe better communication and prior direction to motos and marshals would provide greater clarity about what to do in the future of such events. Perhaps a few more radios for them around the course?

Again, I know it was a chaotic situation, and perhaps the moto was unprepared about what to do. But it seems only reasonable that any results from the 3/4 race should be nullified and that category should have a comp race as well (this isn't self-serving: I won't be able to race on the 11th!). I appreciate your continuing efforts at promoting the sport and the improvements you've detailed are very encouraging. Registration was also very smooth on Sunday, with separate lines for pre-reg and day-of.

Take care,

Jeff Owens
Kissena "

I bet that he's received 100 emails since that race. I wouldn't take his slow response as ignoring you; he's probably just burnt from the dozens of similar communications.

I'm not saying it isn't bullshit; just that I wouldn't expect him to have the wherewithal to cope gracefully with 100+ angry emails and public disaster like the one he organized on Sunday.

Regardless what people thought of his races before, I'm sure he has reached a new low in his motivation to put these things on.

the guy with the 'cash and keys' jersey (white and red w/ black bibs saying powered by blablabla) who is in front of the camera man before arriving at the scene of the accident is the guy who zipped through the carnage. this little weasel can't hold a line and makes people around him very nervous, it's actually seen in the video if you look closely: from 1min to 1min20s. I noticed that dude during the race and saw him swerving around holes in the road, he was around the front most of the race i believe and this was the kinda crap that made me think twice about being in the field at that moment in time.

Looking at this dude's video I want to point out some spots and things that might help the next time you are racing in CP. If you are so inclined, print this out and watch a lap. (easier than going back and forth between windows)

5:09-5:15 -- MOVE UP SPOT #1. This spot on the course always opens up as rider flow takes most people to the right. So if you are too far back, as riders go for the apices on the left then right, let them go while the world opens up for you in front on the left.

5:53-5:56 -- DUSTY GRAVEL on the right, always. You can ride through this stuff, but keep the squirreliness to a minimum.

6:31-6:37 -- HOLD YOUR LINE. As you descend for one reason or another (nerves, crowds, whatever), you may not find yourself nailing the more ideal racing line like the camera man in this shot, instead you may be in the left hand lane taking the "long way" down. Don't fret (and don't change your line abruptly), because as you can see the field soon ends up back in your lane on the left. You may lose a spot or two here, but better to be safe than sorry.

7:29-7:57 -- Jogger's lane special. Douchebags love moving up in the field here as the field swells from curb to curb because of physics. Don't be a douchebag.

8:10 -- REST for 1 or 2 seconds...if you must. No KOM prizes in open CP races. Normally I preach the importance of powering over the top of a climb, but with the immediate descent following (as opposed to false flat rise), if you are safely tucked in the group there's no reason to hit your 3 second power high for the season here.

8:50-9:05 -- ATTACK. Notice how the field bunches here. It's because you are starting the "West Side Windies," the hardest part of the course coming after another hard part of the course (the climb) and best place to get and stay away. The field will be long here, guys who followed my "only if you must" rest advice at 8:10, will be out of position to cover/counter any move you put in here as the field hasn't fully accordioned back together. The rest will be tired from their "brilliant" attack up the steep side of the climb and unable to react.

9:58-10:05 -- MOVE UP SPOT #2. This one hurts a bit, as it is usually windy, always uphill, and feels like you are pedaling twice as far as taking the shorter line, but it always opens up for a few seconds on the left here.

11:00-11:26 -- HOLD YOUR LINE. If it's not single file, don't freak out if you aren't nailing the apex on the upward right handed sweeper. Crashes have been known to happen here. You can see how the field will soon be back creating a nice draft for you and you will be okay for the fast descent as it comes back to the left.


part two to follow....

as promised...

12:46-13:01 -- BREATH AND RELAX. This quick right-left sweeper pinches up quick. No winning attacks nor guys getting dropped for good here in this section. Don't fight for wheels here, just get through this bit.

13:04-14:04 -- MOVE UP SPOT #3. Is actually the single greatest stretch on the course to advance your position safely. As you can see from the video, even if it gets all bunchy, there's still room on the right to push forward. And if you weren't a wheel fighting douche in the previously described "Breath and Relax" bit, you'll likely naturally be on the right side coming out of the sweepers with room to move.

13:16--ish -- TAKE CONTROL. DON'T ATTACK, on the last lap. This is where your 13-rider mega-team should really get to the front in a hurry to start the leadout train. Good thing it is "actually the single greatest stretch on the course to advance your position safely." What genius said that I wonder?

13:16--ish -- ATTACK, BREAKAWAY, if it is NOT THE LAST LAP. You've got some hard riding ahead of you, momentum of the course ensures there will be a few guys with good speed going already, so you'll have company in a hurry, but if you work it, and it's midway through the race, or even early, it could be a winning place to get away.

14:16-14:35 -- BREATH AND RELAX or KEEP DRIVING IT HARD depending on whether you are leading out the field and your teammates or it's early in the race when the action isn't as hot. It narrows fast and douchey guys will always try to squeeze their big asses through the left handed pincher/sweeper.

14:35-16:26 -- Are you in control here? You can lose control of the field in Horseshit Alley, but with a few good motors at the front you should drop off your final few leadout and sprinters until the base of Cat's Paw.

16:26-16:40 -- The long sprinter-heroes go hard here. You need to be on their wheels, but don't take the wind. Guys further back in the field notice all the room on the left. In a last lap situation, this is your sprinting region. You will stay out of trouble, and move up here too. If they are going Mach 5 on the right and it's strung out, then you are SOL if you are too far back, but if it's even remotely bunchy, folks love to crash on the apex of the right handed sweep at 16:40. You can avoid that by going a little straighter.

16:40-16:50 -- The next wave of sprinters launch here. Still too early for most. It's uphill remember.

16:50-17:05 -- This is where one day I will launch my winning sprint. This is where I will come around JP's wheel. You should too.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

i dunno man, this guy was sketch but if you say so. yea, it was the motos fault ultimately but this guy doesn't even give it a moment of hesitation unlike all the other riders...

@ Marc

That post is why I love kissena.

I'll print and watch later.

^^^ what Mike said. Awesomeness.

Great post Marc. Going to be super helpful for future races in CP.

Yes thanks, Marc. I think I'm one of the "30 meter heroes" (probably more like 150m) at 10:21. Not my usual style but Malcolmson suggested I try something at that point, so I said what the hell.

Am I the only fool who is contemplating doing this again on Sunday? Perhaps I'll look at Masters this time instead. Haven't decided about Grant's yet, but that could be an option.

http://www.usacycling.org/results/?permit=2012-752

Wait a second, so it takes the messiest, crash-tastic race with a completely illegitimate "finish" for Van Chump to post results, and he STILL gets them wrong?! This is awesome. I've decided he's the greatest promoter of all time.

OK, I'm going to jump in with my opinion, because you all care I'm sure...

I believe the carnage this weekend was not AVD's fault. Perhaps the field was large but he's within the rules so that was not his fault. He's entitled to do that. The cycling community here in NYC embraced his large field as it was filled. As with 2Yacks, everyone had the option to not partake; there are another 75 races in the season, missing one wouldn't mean anything. Also, I think that half of our field (those who were Cat3 or masters age) could have been in another race if they had chosen. They did not. A mixture of age denial (nothing wrong with the masters field, from what I've seen and heard they are very frequently tougher races than the 3/4 ones) and vanity/glory hunting: easier to get a result as a 3 in the 3/4s as opposed to the 1/2/3s, right...although, to be fair, for for new cat3s I do believe that the option to race with the 3/4s is valid and fair. So, in my opinion, as he was within USA cycling rules to put on that field, AVD is not at fault. Those who signed on the line to add themselves to a 135 rider 3/4 field instead of the ~50 rider 1/2/3 or masters field might have more responsibility for the field size. Finally on the field size, to be a 4 or above you need to have a minimum of 10 races under your belt. We all knew that race would be sketchy and we all lined up. We all had enough experience to see that. AVD gave us the choice, we took it.

The shitty racing was wholly and utterly due to us cyclists. Nothing to do with organisation. AVD has oranised a million races exactly as last weekend and none were that bad (although never perfect either, I know). There were people who had awful fitness in that race (seriously, red zone, in the field, on the flat?!?!?). The arrogance is astounding: 'I'll just race myself into fitness.' Yeah, and endanger everyone around you. Totally selfish. This was clearly evident in the field. I found myself behind a lot of very 'plump' riders who clearly had not ridden at any sort of intensity since last year. They were a liability and it was very, very evident in their bike handling/racing/positioning. This fault clearly lies at the feet of the riders, not AVD. Also, there was a massive lack of group riding practice evident. I am guilty here too. In honesty, prior to Sunday, my only group riding since October had been 2, 2 hour Triangle Rides. I know a lot of our club have done many miles in the group but it was clear as day on Sunday that the closest that the vast majority of riders had come to a group ride in the last 4 months was watching the Tour Down Under on a dodgy Eurosport internet stream.

The crash. I disagree with most sentiments on this as posted. In my opinion, as a rider coming into that crash site, 10-20 spots behind the camera man, the race was not neutralised. There was no understanding at all at the time. All those in the front group with me will concur. We had no-idea what is going on. Also, with regards to speeding off, well, I'm not sure about that, but I do know that just slamming on the anchors was not the right idea as there was a lot of traffic behind (the field was still ~40 or so) so people needed to get out of the way. WIth the confusion, and the lack of direction, I believe that although maybe not a priority, the riders who were through had the right to keep racing. Remember, there is a crash in almost every race we do (in the 4s anyway). We never usually stop. Finally on this, the video, for those who were not in the front group, makes the approach look a lot slower than it was in reality. There was very, very little time to do anything with any extended thought process. I do not think it's totally fair to judge those who raced through so harshly. It really was just a split second decision and there was no instruction from anywhere. It's a tough one but I know from being in that group that I think that it is very unlikely that anyone thought, upon seeing the crash, 'Aha, my chance to snake a victory here.' Probably more like 'Shit, evasive maneuvers required. Where is tarmac without a body on it?!?'. What happened after the crash was essentially a moot point regarding safety, but I do feel that a neutralisation of results would be adequate.

Almost done guys, stick with it....

About organisation. What have we done to help as riders? Kissena riders? What do we organise? I mean, we have Charlie, but the reality is that he is a force unto himself and he could easily promote races under any banner he chooses. I for one have ridden many races and never personally contributed anything in terms of arranging of the events. Many of you know, due to our poor effort in helping arrange/maintain track races, our track director decided to leave us last year. Maybe we need to take a look at ourselves? Also, we want more radios. When was the last time we as a group asked to not receive prize money in order to pay for improved marshal training/more hiring/and better equipment for them? We just buy bagels with the money we win. The closest to this was when Charlie asked us all to pay $1 more for Prospect races for ambulance fees. Not our initiative.

I believe that the majority of the problems this weekend can be placed at our (the riders') door. We need to look at ourselves before AVD in this case, every one of us.

I agree with everything Adam said here (and to be honest share some of his sentiments), with one glaring exception: ALL fields should have been neutralized due to the severity of the crash in the 5 field, and hence that motorcycle should never have led the 3/4 field through the crash scene. It was irresponsible and reprehensible, and completely the fault of the "organizers." The riders are not to blame for that. As I've said here before, I don't think the riders in front did anything wrong by following instructions nor should the riders behind bare any blame for following their wheels. We race through crashes nearly every weekend.

If you guys think there are things we can do to make our races safer, etc. let me know. Although Charlie runs the races, we can support him in many ways. We are only limited to our imagination and commitment.

More cones!

The guy who recorded the videos has put up the second part of the race. I was hoping you could see the last crash just before the descent. As I went past I heard someone very upset shouting 'Fuck, fuck. You hit a fucking cone.'


http://vimeo.com/38002180

Didn't work: here's the link: [http://vimeo.com/38002180]

Joggers lane deterrent.

Re: John - haha, yes, but small, one-man fighters have dealt with that threat before...

I didn't have the patience to watch that whole vid, but man, that dude spent a lottttttttttttt of time in the wind.

10march

hb-brief Race Report,

enough said above about sketchiness and crashes, best for ALL to pre-ride course, to call out hazards, and steer clear.

...looks like finished 9th/50, 3laps, 23.5mph avg. my goal was top5 for some series points, as it will be on the 11th. Siggi's has crew of 12registered and most were there for race, kept out front 2-9th wheel 1st 2laps and found a climber to hang close with at 110berg and bumps beyond, pulled 2-3times out front, if just to fee the fresh air, in final lap hugged inside of course &was fourth/fifth wheel past Tavern and into HorseAlley, at top of HorseAlley was second wheel going fast downhill into finish, heard crackel of crashes behind me @20m, took good speed into base of climb, trying to jump onto each wheel as they came past me in final 150m climb, sadly, i was going backwards and landed 9th w/one guy passing me right at the line.

will try to be more efficient on sunday11th! good job Josh for finish and steering clear!
-h;/