So, I didn't put up a race report from yesterday as there was not too much to say. Three of us in the 3/4 race so decided to sit at the front and poach a move. 'The' move went and I tried to bridge up. Got very, very close but didn't quite make it. Anyway, I wanted to chat about this and ask the question: in this field, is a break away actually possible? One that sticks I mean.

Here's a little background. For the last 3 times in CP I have been scratching my head as to how best to try to get out front on that course. The course is excellently paved and always has a high average speed. The course is of course not flat, but rolling. In my opinion, this leads to the field getting a lot of momentum on the descents which allows it to easily roll over the next bump without too much effort. Conversely, in Prospect or Floyd, getting the field up to 26-28 mph requires pretty much consistent effort. For these reasons, this course, in my opinion, strongly favours sitting in as you can literally do nothing, whereas and lone effort or small groups off the front have to put in huge watts. For all those who have never tried, the next time you go to CP for training, see what you can average from the top of Harlem HIll to Horseshit alley alone, then compare to what your numbers were when sitting in during a race. Basically, it seems that this course requires massive effort in a small group but very little from the pack in order to catch.

My first attempt at a break was the end of last year. Me and one other jumped at the top of Harlem Hill on the last lap. The report is here, about the 15th post from the top:
http://kissena.info/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=479&page=1#Item_30

We got very close to the end but were caught. I was seriously red-lining it. I think that the only way that we got so far was that we were not given too much respect from the field and hence we got a bit of a gap which we held.

Failure number 1.

So, after this attempt, I figured that I'd try something a little different. At the first race of the season (the 150 rider field a few weeks back) I was looking for a move but nothing really materialised. Hence, with no real plausible options. On the last lap, by the Museum, I thought oh well, WTF, might as well go for it. Hence I popped up the the front and then had a crack. You can see it here at 12:08:

[http://vimeo.com/38002180]

I know, I know, there was a lot wrong with what I did. Fore one, when I moved up, I was hoping to not have to slot in straight at the front but the line was single file at that point and nowhere to sneak in. Once at the front I though that as I was burning energy anyway, might as well go for it. I was hoping to leave it a little later but that was that. At best, I thought I might drag some people with me. I did, but by the time we sort of got it together the field just rolled up. Probably didn't help that it was the flattest smoothest part of the course. Absolute not ideal for a breakaway. Ok, got it, that's a stupid idea and was never going to work there. Also, I should tuck in my t-shirt.

Failure number 2.

So, yesterday. I was hovering at the front quite a lot, 2nd-5th place looking for moves. I would occasionally drop back to 10th-15th to get out of the wind completely from time to time. When was doing this on the third lap 'The' move went. It was full of strong riders (one of which went on to win, but from the inevitable bunch sprint, not the break). In fact, this break lasted half a lap and the pack behind, led by multiple people from the same team eventually, after lots of work, pulled them back.

The move went half way down the west side of the park. I tried to bridge as I missed it initially after they initial break. So, as they were about 150m ahead I tried to bridge. Again, that side of the park is killer. All in all, I got 20m from them and the road started pointing up a little. Serious red-lining on my part and they got their shit together. I couldn\\\'t catch solo. Had to wait for the tasty slipstream of the hungry peloton behind.

So, in order to give you an idea, here are a few numbers:
[http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4005102/kick.tiff]

I marked my kick on the image.

I manage to get from the peloton going at 26.6mph to 32.9mph going up hill. Problem here is that, as you can see from the heart rate, I am seriously starting to red-line at this point (HR= 204 bpm, for reference, my threshold, quite accurately measured, is 185 bpm). You can see the elevation change as I get to the top of the roller then go down a little. As I kept trying going up the next roller my HR spiked at a ludicrous 212 bpm. At that point, I think my body decided for me that I wasn't going to make the last 20m to the break. So, apparently I wasn't strong enough to bridge. But, I'm not really sure how much more you can put out. The west side of the park seems to have my number!

Failure number 3.

Adam, not sure about the strategy but 210+ bpm is truly impressive. One question I've been having recently (internally) is the attack effort; it's not the same as a 40 second sprint, but it needs to be big. I've been blowing myself up trying to start a move and finding myself out front *completely* gassed.

Very curious to hear what the veterans have to say on this one. Oh, and the image looks a little fubar (no idea if it is due to the general forum-woes we've been having)

So, to summarise, absolutely lost as to what the plan is here. I just think this course really, really favours the field. So little effort to keep the group at 30 mph which is the antithesis of what it's like out front.

I usually ignore Marc's rants about his hating of the West side attack, but the numbers are not lying. Is there any way to break on this course??? One caveat, due to the 3/4 race being so short (24 miles) and the inherent twitchiness of the field which never lets anything get away, ever, I am not sure if this is directly comparable to the 1/2/3s.

Park veterans: what should I do? Also, has anyone ever seen a 3/4 break succeed here? How, what, why and who?

@Jules

I agree that an attack should not be all out, but bridging there is no choice. You are all in, whatever it takes. When you get there you can sit on but you can't afford half measures in that scenario.

@ Adam. I still think it is possible. If the guys who are in the break are the guys who win the field sprint, my hunch is they are the wrong guys. The issue of teams chasing themselves down is also stupid and problematic.

So my hunch would be that you need to find the right guys. Guys who are willing to go all in and might not have a shot in the field sprint. There really has to be full physical and mental commitment. This is why so many breaks didn't work in the P123 races the first few weeks, you'd have sprinter type guys or half in shape guys trying to sit in after a few pulls. You also need teams to know and be willing to work for the break. That is probably your biggest challenge.

cough cough. I was able to get away twice last year in early 3/4 races. Both times there was a large group of guys off the front 10-12. That then would widdle down to 3-4. Let me search around for a race report. One break was established on horse shit alley and the other was by museum mile.

Race Report
http://kissena.info/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=153

Posted By: Adam
I usually ignore Marc's rants about his hating of the West side attack

It's the last lap, hero attack by tavern on the green, that I rant against. However, attacking either 3/4 of the way up Harlem Hill (provided you have the horsepower and/or numbers to keep it going on the upper-west side roller-twisties), or attacking just after the field swells to recover from the Harlem Hill/fast descent effort around 100th street is a solid place to attack.

But yes, the course is a true momentum course so getting away requires good timing and good legs. You have to be able to stay away and hold off the field when you are coming down the screamingly fast descent past Marionette theater, onto the flats, into the pinch and past Tavern on the Green. If you can stay away clean until Horseshit alley where the road tilts up again then you have a chance to keep it rolling, through the start finish where you may or may not be able to go faster than the field depending on their mood.

There are a lot of variables, most impossible to predict, that will go into a successful breakaway, but you try to control what you can, make the smart moves and hope that you have some help. Because you are never going to be able to do it alone. The Scandinavian pros who race with us at last year's Mengoni, tried to attack us on the Museum Mile flats, to no avail. And they were MUCH stronger than anyone else in the field. What went wrong?

Well, Museum Mile is a tempting place to go sometimes, because it's almost always protected from the wind, the road tilts ever-so slightly down, and everyone feels fast there, and it leads into some of the fastest stretches of of the course. It's easy to hit 35-40mph cruising along in the field on the flats and mini twisty descent leading into the East side descent past the ice rink/swimming pool. As a consequence, it's usually strung out here, because guys are chasing some move, OR, people like to take a break, because they're going so fast already that they don't feel the need to ramp it up here to go 42, when they can do no work and go 37mph.

When thinking about where and when to break, it's important to think about what kind of energy you will be expending relative to the field and the kind of distance you are going to be able to put between yourself and the field based on that energy expenditure.

In sort of generic terms, a 20 watt difference going up hill where speeds are more tightly grouped, is going to get you farther and further towards your goal, whereas what kind of wattage are you going to have to generate to get the same kind of gap from a field that has the momentum of itself and gravity on Museum Mile? I'm going to argue that you are going to need much higher difference in power to get the speed and distance from the field.

Because for one, you are going to have lots of fresh guys just waiting to zip around the leaders once they are tired. Whereas on a climb or false flat rollers, a higher percentage of the field is working almost, if not as hard, as the front guys.

Alright, I can't believe I just spent all that time writing a response to a guy who says he usually ignores me...

Seacrest-out!

P.S. I realize that I'm not impressing anyone with my fitness on group rides these days, and I don't have an impressive race results resume these last few years, but before you dismiss my "rants" you might want to think about how a guy as slow as me, with meager power numbers (I figure my AT is around 270 watts on a good day), can still hang in the 1/2/3 park races and even make myself moderately productive and useful to the team.

it's the beard that latches on like velcro...

Adam, When I look at 3/4 racing, regardless of distance, I look at the diversity of skills and strength and think that there should be more breakaways, many more, than there are in 1/2/3 racing. But upon a closer analysis, the problem lies in the lack of riding skills and race smarts for a large swath of any field.

First, don't think for a second that hte short distance means that it's imposslbe for a break to succeed. The moves just have to be harder, the riders more willing to commit, and the teammates ready behind. A break held off the field in the 1/2/3 for over a lap in the race Saturday. Three strong guys for sure, but two of them had teams that weren't blocking and the third had but one teammate who was sitting in. The field thought they'd be able to catch--and they didn't take the chase seriously enough.

Second, just about every race course, except those that finish up a steep climb, favor the field. Once aerodynamics come into play, the field always has an advantage. It's not about whether the break or field as the advantage, it's about so much more.

As for the general issues afflicting 3/4 racing, here's my rundown.

1. Poorly-timed attacks.
2. Telegraphed attacks.
3. 50 meter heroes.
4. Riders who don't know how to ride a paceline.
5. Riders unwilling and/or unable to commit to the attack.
6. A field that thinks like six year-old soccer players.

At this point, I'll make another plea for people to come to my tactics talk. I hit on all these issues. Can do another one in a few months--or Marc might hit on them at his crit workshop.

You seem to have had issues with #1 and #2 thusfar. 110berg is a really hard place to go and succeed. The next hill is better. Attacking the field when it's single file isn't going to work unless you're Cancellara or Gilbert on a great, great day. You should have waited for a letup before launching unless a Kissena rider was leading the field and could soft-pedal to help you establish a gap. Start looking for places where the course changes and people are likely to sit up, start looking for what causes confusion, and you'll start figuring out when to attack.

Adam, When I look at 3/4 racing, regardless of distance, I look at the diversity of skills and strength and think that there should be more breakaways, many more, than there are in 1/2/3 racing. But upon a closer analysis, the problem lies in the lack of riding skills and race smarts for a large swath of any field.

First, don't think for a second that hte short distance means that it's imposslbe for a break to succeed. The moves just have to be harder, the riders more willing to commit, and the teammates ready behind. A break held off the field in the 1/2/3 for over a lap in the race Saturday. Three strong guys for sure, but two of them had teams that weren't blocking and the third had but one teammate who was sitting in. The field thought they'd be able to catch--and they didn't take the chase seriously enough.

Second, just about every race course, except those that finish up a steep climb, favor the field. Once aerodynamics come into play, the field always has an advantage. It's not about whether the break or field as the advantage, it's about so much more.

As for the general issues afflicting 3/4 racing, here's my rundown.

1. Poorly-timed attacks.
2. Telegraphed attacks.
3. 50 meter heroes.
4. Riders who don't know how to ride a paceline.
5. Riders unwilling and/or unable to commit to the attack.
6. A field that thinks like six year-old soccer players.

At this point, I'll make another plea for people to come to my tactics talk. I hit on all these issues. Can do another one in a few months--or Marc might hit on them at his crit workshop.

You seem to have had issues with #1 and #2 thusfar. 110berg is a really hard place to go and succeed. The next hill is better. Attacking the field when it's single file isn't going to work unless you're Cancellara or Gilbert on a great, great day. You should have waited for a letup before launching unless a Kissena rider was leading the field and could soft-pedal to help you establish a gap. Start looking for places where the course changes and people are likely to sit up, start looking for what causes confusion, and you'll start figuring out when to attack.

I know it's been a long time since JP's been in a 3/4 race, but he's spot on with all the points. The last one made me lol, b/c one of my best friends from Madrid always used to comment on how USA soccer played like that compared to the rest of the decent teams (and hence, sucked). Just everyone chasing the ball and clueless about positioning, predicting angles and subsequent plays. Bugs to a zapper light.

#4 is hard to do anything about and is extremely frustrating (and another great thing about the JP, Ragots, Bertuccos of the club), but MOST lower level racers get almost no instruction. Yeah, some may have a coach or even be on a "team", but their experience (Hudson) can be severely lacking with no mentors around. So they may be getting a lot of nutrition and training advice, but they get almost zero tactical or effective strategery at the lower levels, or even basic bike handling tips.

I'll say that the one big thing I've noticed at the 3/4 level concerning breakaways, is that they work much more in poor conditions or late in the season. If it's cold or rainy, that really helps. All the breaks I've been in or see succeed were early in the season when it was cold and/or rainy, or late when people were a bit burnt out (even though they're in shape in late August). I think that's whats been different this year: the super mild winter has allowed more guys to stay in shape, and the races have been mostly temperate at start time, so guys are feeling better throughout the race.

I know that's not a tactical answer or one that really provides much insight, but it seems that something as simple as the weather can make a big difference in whether or not a park-race break works.

And #5 is so true. You get a lot of guys that maybe have the strength/energy to bridge up/form a break, but then they're spent. And the 2 strong guys are left towing around 3-4 others and it's doomed. That's where talking to strong guys you've identified on other teams is important. I was in a couple of breaks with Clerico and some of the decent Scottos guys simply by communicating with them at the beginning of the race, having noticed them at others.

Marc, hugs. I don't usually ignore you. Just the distaste about that attack you don't like. Otherwise, I appreciate your words. Hence the post and reach out for advice. not sure why, but you saying big no-no on that attack makes it sound appealing. What have you done.

I definitely have a lot to improve on with my timing. I would say in CP though that the race is short, so this puts more pressure on you for attacking in the sense that you can't just wait for something to turn up. As mentioned, some places are just suicidal for attacks, so you have limited options. When I get to one and a half to go I find myself in a position where I force the issue. Throwing down knowing it is probably the last chance of the race to do so. Lots to work on.

I think Jeff has a point about the weather. There is an obvious divide in the field right now. The fatties who never train off season are obvious compared to those who were held back by weather last year but had no such issues this Winter. Definitely more early season fitness, myself included.