L&C Cup - Forum Archive

eloy

Jun 06, 2025 at 08:38 PM

Some quick comments:

A 80+ riders mid summer field is likely to stay together
It would suck to miss a big break or split, but small breaks (4 or less) are not likely to stay away #famouslastwords -- Max, be mindful of the size if you go chasing
So if we need to prioritize, Kevin's chase of grey is the way to go
If the grey jersey is up the road, then we want to close that
Be mindful of "let's go for a train" -- much more realistic, is to be towards the front, look for each other and make totally sure Kevin is in a good position as we hit the hill to GAP in the last lap
To be properly positioned for the last lap (and help Kevin) we need to start that positioning before the bell, using the penultimate time up the climb, and we likely need to pedal a bit on the downhill to the lake
The idea to try to get between Kevin and Saul is mint

Hope this makes sense and helps, let's try to discuss a bit more tomorrow

GregHoge

Jun 07, 2025 at 01:14 PM

Great riding today fellas!

My race went pretty much as expected. It was my first race back and, with not quite enough training in my legs, my main goal was to stick with the group. Each time over the hill was a bit of a struggle but stayed on the back.

Going into the last lap wanted to do what I could for the boys so I made sure to move up where I could, even if it meant burning a match. I got up there but sadly wasn't able to be much help. Gave the last hill all I had and rolled in a few seconds off the bunch.

MaxBucksbaum

Jun 07, 2025 at 03:56 PM

Good to have a squad.

Was not feeling super strong or confident the first lap or two but settled in. Surfed around for most of the race and grouped up with everyone on the last lap. Pat and Kevin somehow seemed too teleport to the front of the pack, and I played catch up on the hill. Last lap was fast + I had to put in an effort up the hill which led to a new PR (1:05) on that segment. Got into a solid position but wasn't able to move up during the sprint and came in for 9th.

KevinWomack

Jun 07, 2025 at 05:42 PM

In contrast to how we thought it would go the race felt fast...

Race a speed = 26.4mph
A few mini surges and break attempts but nothing major
Although there were a few teams with 6+ riders in there it didn't feel like any tactics were at play
Floated close to the front most of the race
Got instructions from Patrick to get on his wheel on the outside on the last lap
Got on Patrick's wheel the the last lap on the straight
Ended up at the front of the race on Pat's wheel, Pat in Beast Mode leading everyone for the last ~mile up to the bottom of PP hill
Just to hold the wheel I had to put out 350W (4.5W/kg) in the draft for around 90s - 2min (from previous efforts I know i need to have enough in the tank to allow for ~380W in the last 2mins (bottom of hill to finish)
Pat pulled off at the bottom of the hill, I put in ~560W for about 10s then blew up
Came in 56th & just out of the Masters points (annoyingly 54th & 55th were old timers too...)
A lot of PR's on Strava*
Learned a few lessons today
Celebrated this result with 2 Bloody Mary's and I'm planning to sleep the rest of the day/weekend.

*(none when it mattered)

More team members in the race = more fun!

Thanks @PatrickGrehan for the ridiculous pull
Congrats @MaxBucksbaum on the top 10!

mugwump

Jun 07, 2025 at 10:58 PM

Glad fun times were had in the 3/4.

My goals were much simpler. Finish.

while I didn't feel great, I did finish. Let myself tail off the last time up the hill.

Even with that, I finished in 1:26:42, for my fastest 12-lap race in Prospect Park. I've been riding this version of the course since 2014. This is the 34th time. The second-fastest was 1:26:54, the first race back after Covid, and I attacked on the last lap to either get away or get dropped, as I didn't want to go into the finish with a full field after most hadn't raced for a year--I got caught and dropped on the flats.

Looking forward to the next race.

eloy

Jun 08, 2025 at 04:46 PM

Some quick post race comments:

At 42.8km/h (26.6ish mph) this was not only the fastest PP 3/4 race of the year, but maybe ever
A lot of us got 40km Strava PRs: 55 minutes, that's over 43km/h (26.75 mph)
BTW lots of this pace was injected by two startrack teenagers!
Kissenistas looked sharp!
We chatted with each other, had a plan.
Patrick acted as road captain. Firah
Kudos to Max for a top 10
Kevin was super well positioned for the second half of the race
Patrick in the front before the last hill was amazing!!
Greg is clearly coming into fitness
We chatted post race too, pretty evident what we should tweak -- as mentioned pre race, leadouts at the 3/4 level are more about positioning. Ultimately, the "protected" rider needs to decide which is the better wheel, and it will sometimes be the wheel of the person you want to beat -- even if your teammate is stringing out the peloton
Post race coffee forever a highlight
Some video of my mid pack exploits can be found in the club's instagram. (mostly just butts)

Let's got race bikes!

PatrickGrehan

Jun 09, 2025 at 01:19 AM

First off, on a personal note, this was the first time I have felt more like my old self in the 3/4 park races since I had heart surgery in 2022. Up until now I was struggling with the harder efforts and felt like I was lacking a gear. I often felt like I was struggling. Today I was less gassed on the hill and was able to move up and stay near the front more easily. Given this I was all in to help Kevin and Max with their goals.

Let's learn form this race:
I want to start a discussion about what went right and what went wrong. The purpose is to see what we can learn from this race so we can execute our plans better in upcoming races. It is fun to work together for a common goal.

To this end I have posted the video of the three minutes from when we passed the temple to my acceleration until I exploded on the hill. Having two cameras helps us dissect what happened.

First, we should have discussed this more before the race, but midway I shared with Kevin and others that we could meet on the right side of the filed near the temple with two to go. In the end we did so on the final lap.

Kevin did a great job of calling out to me that he was on my wheel. I had seen that Eloy and Max were nearby (I hadn't seen Greg, but he is clearly in the video), but didn't know they were not with us with the acceleration.

Initially, we were blocked in as the field was across the width of the road. When a space opened up on the right I moved up. Kevin let me know he was with me. I saw former Kissena Nate of ROR drill it and got onto that train. All of a sudden we were strung out single file.

When Nate slowed up I drilled it. I should have backed off and waited to drill it much later. I made two mistakes here: 1) I didn't check whether Eloy and Max were with Kevin and 2) I believed that if I slowed up that we would be swarmed and lose position. As soon as it was over I could see the error of my ways.

Once I committed to pulling I drilled it to the bottom of the hill. I figured that Kevin (and Max?) would be positioned near the front for the hill. This was far too early for them to be led out.

An ideal lead out should drop off Kevin and/or Max after the GAP, so learning number one is for me to not be so impatient and just hold position until much later.

Other thoughts on how we can better execute?

https://youtu.be/frgni32ku4I

PatrickGrehan

Jun 09, 2025 at 01:29 AM

Here are some pics from the race: NO BUTTS

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5019667/uploads/editor/3l/ka3dygksy8c5.jpg

Friends of the club Mark and Rob

Max keeping it cool

Caught Eloy eating twice during this race. With friends Nathaniel and Nate

With Paul

Club Prez keeping a sharp eye on happenings

Eloy looks like he wants to say something

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5019667/uploads/editor/kf/iab675xeoz0p.jpg

Kevin looking ready to attack

Jules

Jun 09, 2025 at 02:25 AM

@PatrickGrehan awesome to hear you're feeling yourself again.

On the subject of leadouts; the Temple is the right place to be assembling; it just takes 100% commitment from everyone to get lined up, and then some all-in pulling. If I recall, it really did take three or four committed guys to deliver someone halfway up the hill.

mugwump

Jun 09, 2025 at 03:16 AM

I think Jules is right. To assemble a leadout, to be likely to get to the front, you need to do it by the temple at the latest. It's possible to surge at the last moment, but the further back you are and hte later you are, the more you're depending on luck to open holes for you to get around others.

I'll add the following: plans go wrong, adapting is important.

I'm wondering if, considering the situation, Kevin should have sat up and let Patrick roll away, and then tried to slot in a few riders back. The field might well have driven hard to get Patrick, and thus given Kevin, a safe, more protected, strung-out ride to the bottom of the hill.

It's also ok for the rider in Kevin's position not to go 100% when the rider in Patrick's position cracks, especially if he's that far out from the finish. Sticking to a hard tempo that still gives you the possiblity of being to accelerate and might have made it possible to go with the inevitable surges later on the hill.

Another possibilty, one that is probably far harder, is for the rider in Kevin's position to look back and assess what the field is doing and advise Patrick on what to do. We can see from the video that there's a long single-file line behind. Probably, Patrick could have dialed it back ever so slightly, still gotten much of that reaction, and gone farther into the hll before cracking.

Jules

Jun 09, 2025 at 11:29 AM

Guy behind just scream at the bloke in front until you see his lungs dangling by his pedals... @David Yang can tell you all about it

David Yang

Jul 08, 2025 at 01:48 AM

Look alive crew, L&C #6 is on this Saturday July 7th! Races start 5:45am sharp! Weather looks like it's going to stay dry 🤞🤞

Pay to play:
https://www.bikereg.com/70827

Volunteer to play for free (DM me if you have any questions):
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeBKE7h_XACWiN1725oLmy91MOP76PHQrqLqvLP7l97X6JzoQ/viewform

Who's in?

mugwump

Jul 09, 2025 at 03:58 AM

I want to do it, but it looks like I'll have to return a rental car in Jersey by 8am. If that gets pushed back, I should be there.

BlakeFoster

Jul 10, 2025 at 06:40 PM

I'm in for 5s... slogging it out

eloy

Jul 10, 2025 at 06:42 PM

Will be there in the 3/4 race.

BlakeFoster

Jul 10, 2025 at 06:53 PM

There's another dude in the 5s who won both Harlem & Grant's in the 5s category. He def has a sandbagging vibe as he's been the one to established and then win from breaks in each race thus far this year. Rather than make an excuse for it, my goal will be to stick on his wheel like a fly on shit (hopefully he's a good wheel to follow rather than just being fast). Only 12 people in 5s right now.. race predictor has me at top 5. Have to remain in the action tho!

GregHoge

Jul 10, 2025 at 06:55 PM

Sounds like a good strategy.

I'll be out of town but looking forward to the race reports.

PatrickGrehan

Jul 11, 2025 at 04:33 PM

I’m in for 3/4 race

mugwump

Jul 11, 2025 at 08:59 PM

I'm out.

rental car return needs to take priority.

BlakeFoster

Jul 12, 2025 at 10:19 PM

Race report:
- pretty crappy effort today. didn't have the legs, could be any number of reasons.
- the guy who won both harlem and grant's in the 5s was again in the field today, didnt work at all laps 1-2, i sat within 0-2 wheels of him the whole time.
- lap 3 started pushing a super hard pace with another guy who was super strong.
- i was boxed on the left side, they were on the right. when i was able to get over i pushed to follow, determined not to miss a break again if they were going to float off the front.
- ended up burning a huuuge match in this process, and that was at the bottom of the hill.
- pushed to stick with them as best i could, but i cracked just before the kom.
- tried to get back on terms with the pace but was pedaling squares
- simultaneously/coincidentally ran into mark on his way north as i was gasping for air.
- decided my ticket was punched and rode out the rest with a few others who were gapped off the back.

coffee with the boys after, then a couple hours of endurance laps in the park, accompanied at the start by Dave & Patrick.

for the dude who won, that's his 3rd appearance of the year and 3rd win. pretty annoying but good on him for the fitness and forcing a hard race.

PatrickGrehan

Jul 14, 2025 at 12:08 AM

My legs didn't feel so great today, but I finished the race with the pack which was something.

Poor night's sleep. Coughing last night. etc.

Afterwards over coffee Eloy, Dave, Blake and I were discussing excuses for why "we didn't win." Came up with dozens of excuses which Dave thought would be an excellent idea for a special edition club jersey. I'm putting in my order already.

Without further ado here are on board pics of the boys and others looking sharp from the 3/4 field:

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5019667/uploads/editor/wl/gkv1rj7bnpyf.jpg

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5019667/uploads/editor/bf/83zdgw2aur5k.jpg

David Yang

Jul 14, 2025 at 01:15 AM

Not much for a race report, just some tweaks - I "spun" up the hill at high cadence instead of muscling up like I've done for years as my power has declined this year. While I still found myself gapped at GAP at times, I was able to recover a bit faster or at least hang on until I could.

Tried to stick with Grey jersey to help Kevin, but in the end he is wearing it for a reason. He launched over GAP heading into sprint and I lost that front group he was in. Sorry Kev.

Trusted the field would close out any moves so spent my time conserving as much energy as possible.

A very congenial and chill atmosphere. There was still some jostling and bumping and a few "hey ho hey ho"s with funky moves, but everyone was very chill even when racing hard.

Coffee hangs and chats with Phil Castaldi who occasionally comes by Hungry Ghost after the races.

No post race photos since the phone locked me out because humidity/sweat/my back apparently tried to unlock my phone a thousand times.