Kissena Forum Archive

Turkey Hill Country Classic

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Good luck guys!!
Results?
Raced great. Top five over the wall, top ten into the sprint. Guy on the front pops, drifts back and tangles bars with the guy in front of me. Game over.

Bummed. I was pretty certain I'd have top ten'd, at the very least. I felt so good but hey, shit happens. One of these days I might not have such shit luck.
That's a strangely common occurrence. If you find yourself dying at the front, just hold your line. Or just plan better and don't endanger people. Anyway, racing well is a reward in itself.
Yeah, but unfortunately I don't think it'll be enough reward to make up for the snapped hangar, destroyed wheel and peeling the sheets off of myself for the next few nights.

Edit: sorry, I'm super grumpy right now. Really, I'm sore but I think that everything else is just skin. Popped my finger back into place and swelling seems to be going down. A lot of people were in far worse shape and I'm thankful that I was able to walk away from it just a bit banged up. Happened right as the slightly downhill sprint was about to get kicking. Aye aye aye.
Dude, lame.  Did the guy in front of you who wasn't popped take any measures to avoid crashing into the guy dropping back?  I couldn't tell from your first post that you had crashed as a result.  No bueno.
@konrad: Terrible luck. Ice your finger and anything else that might be swelling. And take some ibuprofen or the like even if you don't think you need it. You do.
Nah. Guy dropping back was on cs velo and just wobbled into the line. He didn't get up. As Jeff a said, it was like saving private Ryan. The crash apparently went the whole width of the road and there were just dudes rolling around groaning everywhere.

On a lighter note: Congrats to Erika on 4th today!!
Sounds pretty bad.  Let me know if you need to borrow a wheel or anything else.
Konrad that really sucks, except for the part about how well you are riding, which is awesome.
Deja vu. That crash was heinous. Jeff A went down too. I'm happy to report that both bros made it out ok. It's a shame. I popped off the back on the 4th of 7 laps and decided to roll it in, change, and watch the finish. The frustration of not being in the race at the end quickly disappeared as max carnage unfolded before me. It's like they rode over a mine.
Where is the "ouch" button?

Glad to hear it's only the hopes, dreams and gear that is hurt.
It was a fun race until that crash. 

i was having trouble with my position in the first two laps. i kept finding myself too far back and wasting way too much energy after the turns to try and catch back onto the group. i finally found my footing around lap 3 or 4 when Bertucco saw me and told me i had to move up, and move up i did.

once i got up closer to the front, things felt great. i was sitting about 15th wheel into the wall and thought i had great position coming into that final sprint.

@vlad had forewarned me to be on the lookout for a crashy field sprint, and he was spot on. i decided that if i was going to go for the sprint, i wanted to be as far to the outside lane as possible, in order to avoid any chaos and I'm glad i did.

i was hanging onto the right side of the road, a few wheels back from konrad, when i saw what looked like a land mine going off...bikes flying every which way up into the air and people hitting the pavement. i grabbed my back break and started fish tailing pretty hard in order to avoid everything the best i could. i was actually able to bunny hope over a bike that slid out in front of me, but then ran into the next bike that slid into me and i crashed into a ditch on the side of the road. luckily i crashed into the grass and was able to pick my bike up and ride away.

as i said to konrad, it was definitely one of the worst crash scenes i have witnessed. 

like konrad, i was pretty bummed out, because i felt like i had good positioning going into that sprint.

at least we got to eat an endless supply of ice cream sandwiches and chocolate milk and were able to both walk away from the race.
Damn sorry dudes, hope you guys heal up soon.

Just got back from Turkey Hill Adventures and rather than report on my own rather unforgettable race in the 40+, I think it would be more important to talk about how this is the most family friendly road bike race you did or did not go to this year.

First of all, bouncy castles? Yes...except, we're not talking big square jump up and down with inflatable faux towers. No sir, there were 4 different bouncy things that were totally grade A, next level bad-ass stuff.
  • The bouncy castle was actually not only huge, but incorporated a rooms, passage ways and stuff scary enough that I wasn't about to let my 21-month old go in there by himself.
  • Then there was a slide. Pretty tame, but required some climbing on soft squishy surfaces which is harder than you might expect; it was the only thing Peter and I dared try.
  • Then there was this thing that was straight out of those goof-ball shows where there are spinning things trying to knock your ass into a moat. Except this was a wild, motorized gesticulating spinning arm whose sole purpose in life was to knock the snot out of your little punk kids. Awesome.
  • Then there was something that was out of, I don't know, American Ninja? Two kids start at one end and fight their way through obstacles, climb up inflatable walls and see who comes out the other end first.

Okay, onto other great family stuff.

  • Actual permanent playground.
  • LOTS of port-o-johns. Plus indoor flush toilets, WITH baby changing station! No nasty dumps. (pun intended)
  • Lots of free food. Every Turkey Hill product you can imagine, plus chips, hot dogs, popcorn, whole loaves of bread (weird, but true), fruit (if you could tear yourself away from cups of salted caramel icecream). And it just kept on coming.
  • Kids running races. Free. Peter pinned on his first number and took part in the 5 and under category.
  • Free t-shirt to pre-registered riders.
  • Kind of hilarious mascot races with actual real mascots from, for example, the Philly Phillies. The Fanatic, stole some 40+ racer's bike, without missing a beat, in full costume and rode around in circles. I was impressed.
  • Not too far from the race was an entire higher end strip outlet mall that had every kid clothing store you ever heard of. Sarah is already planning to not buy any summer clothes for Peter until this race next year.
  • Giant cow that was cool to look at and the kids loved climbing all around it.

Now I know what most of you are probably saying..."I couldn't care less about bouncy castles and baby crawling races" Fair enough, but let me tell you about the race itself. Don't let the crashes make you think this is some half-assed operation. The organization of this race is tight.

  • Registration indoors.
  • Multiple tables with release forms, daily programs, blown up google map images of the race courses with feed zone and danger zones highlighted.
  • Two lines for each category. With clear to read signs above the people manning the stations. One for pre-reg, one for day-of. No lines, no waiting. Which makes you wonder, what the hell the Housatonic Hills race folks were doing all those years.
  • With the exception of one brief stretch, FULL ROAD/CLOSED COURSE. No yellow line rule.
  • Lots of marshals in all the right places.
  • Challenging windy, rolling course. At one point me and another rider rolled up to Ed Beamon (DS of plenty of pro cycling teams, and actual kind of bad-ass racer himself) who was dropped from the Pro field, and we exchanged a few words. Ed said, "Yeah, this course is kind of relentless." And that was the last I heard of him. I dropped him on the next roller and didn't see him again until passed me latched onto the 3/4 field.
  • GREAT opportunity for KCC studs to race a seriously tough Pro 1/2/3 field (the top 10 was littered with names like Olympian Bobby Lea, former pro Scott Ziwanski). Sometimes it's good to get out of your comfort zone and get kicked in the head repeatedly. I'm sure a race report is coming but Adam seemed to hold his own pretty well before the crash and subsequent delays and neutralizations.

Okay, that's it for now. Congrats to all the KCC racers out there. Especially Erika on her hard fought 4th place. I think all of the KCC riders who participated were rewarded with not only tired legs, but valuable learned lessons that will carry them on to bigger successes at future races. Or at least that's the sense I got during our post race stuff your face with ice cream chat session.


Okay, I lied. I am going to talk about one aspect of my race with the 40+ Masters because I think there's a lesson to share. Namely, "nice guys finish last." Or something...

The race started out kind enough and even when the field hit the gas after the tight turns, by virtue of my good pack positioning, I wasn't in too deep. And then somewhere, pretty early on, a few laps into our 8 lap race, I lost my good positioning. At the top of a roller, looking down, I could see that the field was starting to stretch and about to break. Imagine a blob of pizza dough, now squeeze it in the middle, and that's kind of what my field looked like before trouble.

We were on a quick downhill stretch, and with a sharp turn coming up, I just didn't have the time or the room to advance to the front of the pizza blob. I was stuck in the back. The field hits the long home stretch, which is probably the hardest of the race. 3 serious rollers before the descent past the start finish line. We're single file, guys are blowing up everywhere in front of me. I've got plenty of legs (or so I think) and I'm getting up to and past one rider after another, but then I run out riders and run out of legs. No more stepping stones. My asthmatic lung-sounds can only be described as "prehistoric mating call."

But I'm not alone, there's this other dude and he's taking a nice long hard pull. We're maintaining our gap, we can totally get back to the group. A few others join us and as we inch closer, they launch across. I'm frustrated, my calls of "work together" are ignored. I know a nice steady tempo would have us back in short order. But no, guys are sprinting across. I've been sitting on this dude's wheel for a nice long time, and I don't want to be a douche and spring across, leaving him for dead after taking advantage of his pull.

Fine, okay, I think we can get back on our own regardless. We're holding our gap for an entire lap before it starts to open up. Another rider joins us and he's not as steady. First dude eventually drops off altogether and me and this other dude who was short and powerful and really old looking, but strong work together for the rest-ish (there was all manner of neutralization/pulled and placed confusion with our field because of the crash) of the race.

So I'm frustrated. Because I'm 100% positive that I could have sprung across back to the group like those other riders did. But I didn't. And the guy who I didn't want to leave behind when the shit was blowing up, ended up getting dropped anyway a few laps later.

Le sigh...
Marc, that sounds fantastic.  You got out there and pulled, you tried to whip up a good, working paceline, you didn't leave a rider who either needed you, or didn't want to leave with the same reasoning.  I just read the very definition of good sportsmanship.  That's good stuff, right there.

Yes, there are lessons in here for me, and that's making a judgement during a race about working with others to bridge a gap, staying with those who do work well, and not feeling bad about having a great race, especially when you're not in the top 10, which is every race I'm in.  I want to win, I want to place, and my physical training is with those goals in mind, but at the end of the race, when I don't do either, I need to remind myself about all of the other things racing gives me, which translates into the other parts of my life.  I don't win or place at my job, I work as a team, etc.  

I don't like feeling frustrated at the end of a race, though I often do.  Recognizing good sportsmanship isn't a way to soften that, it's what I believe this whole thing is supposed to be about.
I dunno @Marc, seems like you did the honorable thing, but then again, there is no honor in road racing, eh?
So sorry to hear about the experiences in the men's fields, and glad to know injuries are being well cared for. Really sucks, especially in a "fun" race like this. I do have to say there were some men's Cat 4/5 asshats off the back playing around with the women's 3/4 break. Some serious unsportsmanlike attitudes out there yesterday. Anyway...

During my warm-up I noticed considerable play in my back wheel and a spoke as loose as a turkey's wattle. My fault for keeping my race wheels in the Pika Pack all week and not checking them after returning from CA. Vlad was gracious enough to offer his impressive/intimidating carbon wonders, but they weren't going to work with my CX bike's brake pads. Marc come to the rescue with his custom Neuvation wheel. I really can't thank Marc enough! And with Jeff A's blessing on the SRAM/Shimano Frankenbike we'd just created, I was off with the w3/4s.

Pretty uneventful for the first 2 of 5 laps. Field stayed together, a couple bad wheels were yelled at through the corners, and everyone enjoyed the full road closures. Found myself in a 4 woman break in the 3rd lap on one of the more significant hills on the stretch before the finish. It didn't stick, but before being gobbled back up by the field, we chatted briefly about trying that again on The Wall.

During the last lap, I was at the front hammering hard before The Wall in order to get good positioning for what I assumed would be a sloppy, paper boy-esque climb. Which it was. I was also hoping to exhaust a few women before the climb. Which I did. I was maybe 5th up the climb along with the women from the earlier attempt at a break. We all just punched it, created a big gap on the rollers after The Wall, and for the second weekend in a row my CX bike did not disappoint on the down hill. Short pulls and a tacit agreement to start the sprint at 200m. I was second wheel at the 200m mark (which Marc informs me is a tricky spot, so next time in that situation I'll aim for 3rd wheel) and ultimately was just out sprinted. But happy with placing and having a safe race.

Turkey Hill pro-tip: snag your free ice cream before your race, so it's a nice milk shake consistency at the finish. Salted caramel milk shake + Osmo Recovery = OMG Omnomnom!

Huge HUGE thank you Marc for the wheel. Seriously saved the day. Now I really owe you a burrito and car companionship on your next drive to Chicago.

-Marc, the very fact you mentioned the episode means that you know you fucked up.  Should have rinsed the guy and jumped across.  Sorry I can't be more supportive of your decision.  There are absolutely no friends in road racing.  The ONLY exception is the grupetto.  Then it is just makes you a total knob if you attack or sprint for the finish line.  You've been racing long enough to know the score. Hugs. 


-I have to reiterate what Marc said about being on closed roads.  A real treat and that made this a real pleasure to ride. I don't think I have ever been on a closed road course on the highway before.  Great fun.


I jumped in the P123 race at this event.  I have done a few of these higher category road races to know the pattern.  They tend to go super nuts for the first 45-60 minutes until the break gets established.  Then, thankfully, everyone calms down as the break builds up a gap then eventually gets tired.  The last third of the race then goes nuclear as you get the triple whammy of the field deciding to catch the break, the field then attacking after catching the break, then the ramp up for the finish.
So, the race goes of and duly it starts hectic.  After 3 laps or so the break eventually goes.  Perfect.  This, for those who may not know, is NOT like the park-break is definitely not on the agenda, too hard.  In one of these races I would rather gouge out my toenails with a rusty spoon then be in the break. Screw that for a bag of chips.  I am now a happy camper in the wheels. So, the field lets up for a little bit and that's great. Unfortunately, the course itself was hard.  It was more or less a rectangle and if you were not climbing up ramps which were long and steep enough to register as a "hill" then you were racing with a significant crosswind.  This was kind of like a red rag to a bull (the bulls being the stronger guys).  So, every incline or on the longer stretches the field was full gas.  Often there'd be breaks in the field (which started at 80 riders) on the longest side with strong cross-winds, with 2 or 3 echelons forming.  However, this side ended with a long descent so the group reformed.
This meant that the break was caught after 5 laps (of a 9 lap race-too soon).  That's BS.  Aint nobody got time for that she'at.  Not totally sure why we the break was caught.  Don't get me wrong, was a hard race, so they probably blew up to some extent (think there were 5-8 of them).  But, we were getting time checks and at some point they had 1:20 on us.  If we were catching them I am surprised we didn't just slow up.
On the whole, the race was tough.  Then, however, on lap 6-7 out of 9 the field was totally imploded.  I have never seen a field get destroyed like this.  Usually, when a race is hard people get pinged off the back a couple at a time.  Not this time, I reckon that the field was still about 60-70 at this point.  Scott Zwizanski (didn't know him until the race-rides for Optum) flies up the side of the field on a climb with a crosswind.  Boom, puts down the megawatts and within 20 seconds the field was strung out in 4 echelons, up a longest hill in the race with a stiff side wind.  Boom.  Game over.  I was third group on the road in a matter of seconds, not as I was dropped per se but because I was sitting in the group near the back, i.e. my position at that point was total shit.  I was not expecting anything to happen until we hit the Wall for the first time in 6 miles.  That was that. Wanted to ride it in with the third group as there was only 15 miles left.  We then caught the leaders when they we neutralised by the 3/4 crash.  After 45 minutes standing around the referee only let the first group finish their race, arguing that the day was behind schedule and that the later groups were not in the mix anyway (odd reasoning and decision IMO).  So, in the end, didn't get pulled, didn't get a DNF, they just only recorded the results of the front group of 30 who they let finish. 

I put this up as I never really thought too much about the fact that at some points in a p123 field on a tough road race, you can be totally defenceless if you are not racing right.  The way the ducks lined up: side wind, hill, my positioning in last 3rd of field, I was never, ever going to be able to respond if a move went.  I was in the wrong place to respond in anyway at all.  Next time, I will assess where on the course I am most vulnerable and plan accordingly.  Fascinating to watch and be a part of.    

Damn @Adam.  Quite insightful.  Definitely true what you say about the horsepower of the guys in the break.  It's a whole other sport.

I agree with Vlad in that the wall is not necessarily a decisive feature of the race if you are in the top 1/2 of your given field strength and position wise.

The last time I did the race, I was in the Pro 1/2 field and we went up the wall EVERY LAP. Hence my "PTSD" about it.

That said, it's short, but extremely steep and you just don't want to be in the back of the pack at the start of it, because like at the spring classic races, you'll get bogged down and lose all momentum going into the hill. Also, lesser riders will absolutely get gapped here. AND, after the climb proper, like in most races anywhere/everywhere, the road continues to rise false flat style.

So for me, I think attacking when your competitors are already on the edge is a good place to go. Whether that means you are climbing close to the front, and when you are most of the of the way up the climb, keeping on full gas for the rest of your lap to get/make/keep a separation, or you are attacking just before the relatively sharp "Turn 1" after the start finish where you can gap the field easily with good cornering technique and keep on the gas on the rising rollers and hopefully get someone to bridge.

Similarly, there's another "crit fast" corner where you can take advantage of good positioning to get a gap without trying too hard. Turn 3 on the main course.

http://www.turkeyhill.com/community/race-map.pdf

But take note of the group dynamics as the race unfolds. Look for teams, see if they're riding as teams, look for guys to work with.

If despite your best efforts, the field is intent on staying together, chasing everything down and gathering for a group sprint, then you need to focus on what it takes to succeed in a fast downhill bunch sprint. To that end, pay attention how the field races/rides the finishing stretch on previous laps. Keep an eye out for openings where you can move up if you get jammed up mid-field or further back. As in all races, those last few kilometers are going to force you to dig deep and by hyper-aware to improve/maintain positioning.

Don't throw away your race just because it's going to come down to a group sprint.

In the final sprint, for gearing think about starting in one gear and clicking once. This way, you have a good gear for that initial snap and within 10-15 seconds, you've shifted to the gear that you are going to finish your sprint in. The start finish is pretty close to the first turn, so if you've attempted to get away here in previous laps, then you should have an idea of what gears are best for the conditions on this day.

I agree with Vlad in that the wall is not necessarily a decisive feature of the race if you are in the top 1/2 of your given field strength and position wise.

The last time I did the race, I was in the Pro 1/2 field and we went up the wall EVERY LAP. Hence my "PTSD" about it.

That said, it's short, but extremely steep and you just don't want to be in the back of the pack at the start of it, because like at the spring classic races, you'll get bogged down and lose all momentum going into the hill. Also, lesser riders will absolutely get gapped here. AND, after the climb proper, like in most races anywhere/everywhere, the road continues to rise false flat style.

So for me, I think attacking when your competitors are already on the edge is a good place to go. Whether that means you are climbing close to the front, and when you are most of the of the way up the climb, keeping on full gas for the rest of your lap to get/make/keep a separation, or you are attacking just before the relatively sharp "Turn 1" after the start finish where you can gap the field easily with good cornering technique and keep on the gas on the rising rollers and hopefully get someone to bridge.

Similarly, there's another "crit fast" corner where you can take advantage of good positioning to get a gap without trying too hard. Turn 3 on the main course.

http://www.turkeyhill.com/community/race-map.pdf

But take note of the group dynamics as the race unfolds. Look for teams, see if they're riding as teams, look for guys to work with.

If despite your best efforts, the field is intent on staying together, chasing everything down and gathering for a group sprint, then you need to focus on what it takes to succeed in a fast downhill bunch sprint. To that end, pay attention how the field races/rides the finishing stretch on previous laps. Keep an eye out for openings where you can move up if you get jammed up mid-field or further back. As in all races, those last few kilometers are going to force you to dig deep and by hyper-aware to improve/maintain positioning.

Don't throw away your race just because it's going to come down to a group sprint.

In the final sprint, for gearing think about starting in one gear and clicking once. This way, you have a good gear for that initial snap and within 10-15 seconds, you've shifted to the gear that you are going to finish your sprint in. The start finish is pretty close to the first turn, so if you've attempted to get away here in previous laps, then you should have an idea of what gears are best for the conditions on this day.
Can we get a convoy?

https://www.bikereg.com/turkey-hill-country-classic

This is a great race. Road race. You know, like the ones that happen on actual roads. This is one of them.

Saturday, May 2. 
never mind
This race is unique as it is almost exclusively on closed roads.  You should do it. 
Adam said:
This race is unique as it is almost exclusively on closed roads.  You should do it. 
Adam, is sadly, correct. There used to be quite a few good road races on the calendar. In fact for years, I often skipped Turkey Hill for one that competed for the same date. Now they are mostly all gone. One of the other things that makes this race "unique" today is that it is a "stand-alone" road race (not part of a stage race) that is within the bounds of not just skinny mountain goats. That said, the race tends to be really hard regardless...
Is this race worth it for the 4s? Kind of short for the distance we have to travel to get there.
Adam said:
This race is unique as it is almost exclusively on closed roads.  You should do it. 
I have heard nothing but good things about this race. Real road race experience is hard to come by, and it's a fantastic chance to bond with your teammates I recommend it if you can.

You guys would not *believe* the stuff I learned about Adam traveling to races with him. Who knew the Vatican musicians all had to undergo mandatory ballroom dance training, or that a Zebra rib can be repurposed as spring leaf for an everglades fan boat...
Is this race worth it for the 4s? Kind of short for the distance we have to travel to get there.
I usually reserve this response for this question when it comes up in reference to crit racing.

It's not the distance, but the intensity associated with said distance. On one end of the extreme you've got pro CX races that if they go much longer than 1 hour, you will reduce all competitors to a pile of quivering tears and misery. A good fast crit, and you'll be praying for an early "last lap" bell around 3/4 of the way into the race.

That said, I've never done the Cat 4 race here, but I'm already wishing the P 1/2/3 race were about 1/2 as long. Really I'm wishing that World Class track racer Bobby Lea and his friends don't show up.