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Tour de France

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I find it sad that everyone decided that Froome must be doper because he took 58 seconds out of Quintana on the first mountain stage. What about quintana taking 90 seconds out of Froome today ? What does that say about Quintana ?

Nothing.

Because Froome came into the tour on top form aiming to take time early and then try and hold one as his form faded and others came in slightly under form, with a view to peaking in the Alps.
Which is pretty much what happened. No eye-of-newt or wing-of-bat shenanigans, just riders on slightly different peaking strategies.

People keep saying the Sky are just like Postal. Well having very recently watched the first 6 Armstrong tours there was resemblance only on the first mountain day, and to a lesser degree on the second day in the Pyrenees. The Sky riders showed signs of sickness, fatigue, days of poor form, while others came good only in the latter half  of the race (Roche). Whereas every single day Postal would have almost a full complement of riders until the final climb and then still have a few key climbers with Armstrong until very late into the finale. They never tired. There is a marked contrast.

In fact the most outrageous performance of the tour was Sagan, who was in the break for 4 or 5 days straight. Some amazing powers of recovery he has. 

So. Personally, I am delighted that Froome and Sky won. He is not the most elegant rider I admit, but he proved to be a way better bike handler and descender than a lot of people expected. And on a few of the mountain summits he made sure he got the most points he could, so he put some effort into winning the spotty jersey, which no GC contender has done for a long time.

People think Froome is doping because of many reasons.

http://sportsscientists.com/2015/07/great-power-great-responsibility-less-power-greater-speeds/

(looking askance at Froome does not imply a similar gaze at the entire front of that field, fwiw) 
If you have 12 minutes...listen from 16-28 minute... SKY = not as transparent as you think.  You know Froome was tossed from the 2010 Giro for holding onto a motorcycle going up a climb....that happened



^ as far as I can tell UCI officiating at the Giro is a random number generator - I wouldn't hold that against him.

There is plenty to go on besides that though.
This just popped up in a book I'm reading (Ghost Fleet).  Completely turned me around on dopers...their clever blood manipulation could some day help the war effort against the Chinese Directorate...Take THAT u communist swine!!!
Roflmao; apparently it's not just electronics where you have quality issues!


Turn the page! Turn the page!
Lets just st say it didn't end well for the "single figure" that emerged from the forest at the turn in the shoreline. 
I am not sure that lobster would be good with drawn butter. 
Peter Sagan stage finishes in this year's Tour:

5 2nd places
2 3rd places
2 4th places
1 5th place
1 7th place

10 top 5 finishes.....1 green jersey....zero inappropriate incidents with podium girls, talked about how much fun he had like 5 times in the post race interview.  That's a good tour.
^ I used to think Sagan was a prime dick-bag, but as he's aged I have to come to like him a lot.  A phenomenal racer with a great sense of humor (e.g. him joking with Griepel and Cav that they should initiate a break after their prime sprint earlier in the Tour).

And for all the Froome haters: Can you at least apply your fuzzy logic equally?  Froome had one outstanding stage... so did Bardett, Pinot, Quintana, Nibali, etc.  So why are we not taking out our pitchforks for those guys?  I am not saying Froome isn't doping -- I have no idea -- but it bothers me when he is the only target.  Sure he's long and gangly and ungraceful (hey I have sympathy for that), but all else equal (and by equal I mean they're all probably doping), he's a brilliant athlete that has throughout the Tour shown real class.

Also TBC, the fact that Ian and I have similar opinions has nothing to do with our both being British. 
dstearns said:
Peter Sagan stage finishes in this year's Tour:

5 2nd places
2 3rd places
2 4th places
1 5th place
1 7th place

10 top 5 finishes.....1 green jersey....zero inappropriate incidents with podium girls, talked about how much fun he had like 5 times in the post race interview.  That's a good tour.
I agree. He's too easy to like.


^ I used to think Sagan was a prime dick-bag, but as he's aged I have to come to like him a lot.  A phenomenal racer with a great sense of humor (e.g. him joking with Griepel and Cav that they should initiate a break after their prime sprint earlier in the Tour).

And for all the Froome haters: Can you at least apply your fuzzy logic equally?  Froome had one outstanding stage... so did Bardett, Pinot, Quintana, Nibali, etc.  So why are we not taking out our pitchforks for those guys?  I am not saying Froome isn't doping -- I have no idea -- but it bothers me when he is the only target.  Sure he's long and gangly and ungraceful (hey I have sympathy for that), but all else equal (and by equal I mean they're all probably doping), he's a brilliant athlete that has throughout the Tour shown real class.

Think you got it right here ,

I wanted Nibali to win ,because i love the way he races , but hes been playing catch up all year and pretty much knew the podium was his only hope , would of loved to see him have the chance to push Valverde down to 4th on Alp d'huez ,
I cant stand Froome ( Im holding a grudge on behalf of Wiggins) , Moviestar should of come 100% for Quintana ,
Sky bought the best team to the race , and with hindsight think they may of even told Poels & Porte to save some legs prior to Saturday

Not long 'till the Vuelta a Espana


Was it just me or did Movistar with Valverde and Quintana remind you of the 2011 tour where they spent the whole time trying to both be on the podium rather than one win it outright with the other helping? I found it frustrating that Valverde would give Froome a tow to the attackers in his attempt to take the 3rd podium spot. It was like he was a 10th member of Sky.

For the Brits amongst us. I would say most of the Froome/Sky hate is really around the combination of a massive budget and the opaque approach to communicating with the press, which reminds folks of USPS a little too much. They are also crossing the line of rules, like wanting RVs for their riders, in clear violation of the UCI rules that riders stay in the hotels provided by the organizer, in an effort to let their money be a bigger advantage beyond just the ability to hire talented riders. All of this makes us think they're up to breaking the rules in other ways that are not front and center like a giant RV. Also they're sponsored by a Murdoch company, so one has to feel like they have a bit of the Emperor Palpatine rubbing off on them.





....yeah, because if they don't let riders sleep in RVs, there is parity amongst teams.

I think they should ban team chefs also now, force riders to eat in the hotels they stay at. You know the ones with no air conditioning (what year is it?), because they certainly will have at least one big block of ice keeping chicken breast from getting too much salmonella sitting around in a hot kitchen.
Movistar could have had a win if they refocussed Valverde's effort. However, is not like there was a ton of higher places to go. Dude: 2nd Place, there's only one rider ahead.

On Alpe d'Huez, Valverde clearly waits, until literally 2 meters to the line, to pass Froome..., precisely so that Froome got no possible advantage from him.

--- as a sidenote, it is a bit weird, to think that I'm actually defending Movistar. Ugh.


Eloy, you and I are totally saying the same thing. Valverde could have been much more effective as a teammate and could have put Nairo on the top step if he wasn't focused on 3rd place for himself.

That Alpe d'Huez bit was a tiny gesture at the end of a long set of moves that helped Sky/Froome control the front of the race on many of the stages. He should have been getting into suicidal attacks on the early climbs to draw out Sky and isolate Froome, instead of following every time that Nibali or Contador put in a dig and giving Sky a wheel to follow or jump across to the attacker.

Valverde is an excellent tactical thinker on the bike, and totally knows what he's doing to position himself for advantages, but I think he was too focused on gaining and then keeping 3rd place for himself rather than supporting Nairo. 
^ No surprise that a delusional doper, high on his own red blood cells, would put the podium step above a team W. 
So many things to add...

The failure of Movistar (and Valverde) for me comes down to one moment.  The start of the Croix de Fer Descent.  Valverde could have drilled it for Quintana, racing down to Bourg d'Oisans, then giving whatever else he had left at the foot of the Alpe, and blowing.  

Even if Froome/Nibali, caught them, which they did, Valverde should have done the same.  It would have kept the four ahead of Sky's domestiques, and it would have afforded Quintana the chance to race Froome all the way up the Alpe, which, when you consider that the start is the hardest and it gets easier toward the top, would have provided a much better chance for Quintana to take yellow.

I was hoping for more aggressive riding from Contador, but I think the downhill crash was fatal to his chances and he was lacking in form to begin with.  Both he and Nibali seem to know how to attack regardless of terrain, and having them closer on time to the lead would have made for a much better race.

BTW, I disagree with the contention that Froome made an effort to go for the KoM jersey.  It was merely a byproduct of trying to take seconds from others and the Tour wanting the KoM jersey to go to an overall contender rather than a breakaway artist.    

No. Next question.

we're not the only ones with unrealistic hopes...


Haha 12 comments that all say "Non".
we're not the only ones with unrealistic hopes...


Watching the first few stages, I'm impressed with how Cannondale is deploying Navardauskas to pilot Rolland in the final kilometers.  While I don't see Rolland winning, his fate should be different if he doesn't lose major time in the opening stages.

Of course, Navardauskas is a decent stage hunter and using up his energy this way reduces C'dale's chance of a stage win.  But then, they don't have much hope of a win in the opening stages anyways.
He should get his shit together soon...he's on my fantasy team damn it.....and Contador is kaput
http://www.velogames.com/tour-de-france/2016/teamroster.php?tid=57772eb6edda8529
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France_records_and_statistics#Stage_wins_per_rider

Pretty remarkable that Cav's the only "contemporary" rider in the top 10. Gotta wonder what that list looked like pre-doping crackdown though
Wait wut? Who is this kid? Where is he now?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France_records_and_statistics#Stage_wins_per_rider

Pretty remarkable that Cav's the only "contemporary" rider in the top 10. Gotta wonder what that list looked like pre-doping crackdown though
here is a fun visualization of stage wins by age for the history of the tour.

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/07/data-visualisations-for-all-time-wins-at-the-tour-de-france/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France_records_and_statistics#Stage_wins_per_rider

Pretty remarkable that Cav's the only "contemporary" rider in the top 10. Gotta wonder what that list looked like pre-doping crackdown though
here is a fun visualization of stage wins by age for the history of the tour.

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/07/data-visualisations-for-all-time-wins-at-the-tour-de-france/

Sweet! I'm a huge fan of Tableau. As me about the flash crash of 2010 over beers some time. #funnystory
Yea Tinkov riders are all riding for themselves why wouldn't they there is no sponsor for next year.  Sagan and Contador will find teams.  Contador cashed and he's shit now...his fault.  Staying upright is part of winning