Building on Bruce's remarks:

My sizes:
5'9", 142-145lbs racing weight
Shirt size: 15-15 1/2" neck, 37 chest, forget my sleeve length and shoulders.  Uniqlo XS sizes fit me the best.

Pants size: 30-31 waist x 30 length, Levi's 511 styles ("slim fit") are pretty tight around my thighs and calves but not skin tight like a skinny jean would be.


Champ Sys standard race fit jersey
Small - Good tight fit around arms, chest, waist, but not at aero levels of painted on.  Neck zip is tight and chokes me so I usually zip up to the collar and tuck in the edges.
Med - Loose, but comfortable.  Neck size fits perfectly for me, wish it was paired to the Small jersey instead

Champ Sys standard bib w/reg chamois
Small - Okay fit, a bit loose, standard material bunching when on bike.  Think it can have a bit more "compression" to make it more skin tight.

Champ Sys skin suit w/reg chamois
Small - Almost an exact combination of the above two notes (as expected).  The skin suit top is probably slightly more snug (different material than jersey - I think it shares material with the standard bibs).  The sleeves also seem somewhat longer than the regular jerseys, but not sure if is just how the material sits/bunches.

y'all are weird. I now know what size pants to get David after he splits the seat on a Food and Drinks ride, and that Bruce needs to go on one of those rides. 6'2" and 162, damn man, you need a sammich.

I believe the plural for y'all is 'all y'all'. 

all y'all need a sammich!

The heavy winter pro jacket, the one with the offset zipper? I'm fairly medium in every way, but ordered a large and still find it snug/pulls in the arm pits.

Marc Bertucco said:

The heavy winter pro jacket, the one with the offset zipper? I'm fairly medium in every way, but ordered a large and still find it snug/pulls in the arm pits.

That jacket is all sorts of janky. The good news is that is was promptly discontinued. In other words, you can't buy it anymore.

DON'T buy the club fit.  Unless you like things to be flappity-flap-flap-flap while going downhill.

Otherwise, I have a club fit M to sell you.

Also wind vests, tight in the shoulders/chest, loose in the belly. Bad fit overall, no matter what size you get. I mean a light wind vest is a good piece of kit to own, but if you are counting pennies, I'd buy one from elsewhere and save your money for other sublimated gear.

Totally disagree with Marc on the vest. Fits like a glove. Spend $5 at a local tailor and have them replace the zipper with something that works. Spare yourself the aggravation of a CS zipper fail.

Women's Team:

This is an important note regarding kit ordering.  For some reason, the nice bib shorts (Donna Forte Razor Bella Bib shorts) are not on the main list on the ordering page.  In order to find them, I had to click on all proofs and then it was located at the end of the second row.  There is one proof that says shorts and bibs that has pics of jerseys and skinsuits.  That is the one that has the nice new bib shorts that I've added to the order.  

They are called the:
Donna Forte Razor Bella Bib shorts

*Make sure that you don't accidentally order the razor bella cycle shorts, as these are NOT bibs.  I did this by accident at first and I'm working on getting this removed from order choices.

Let me know if you have questions!

Jules said:

Totally disagree with Marc on the vest. Fits like a glove. Spend $5 at a local tailor and have them replace the zipper with something that works. Spare yourself the aggravation of a CS zipper fail.

Yeah, my wind vest fits me a little better these days too...

Alas, I won't be able to make it to the brick-and-mortar Champ Sys store to try on items for size and feel the fabrics, as I would have liked, before our team store closes on the 19th. I just spent an hour on the stubborn Champ Sys website, and came up with what I think would be my ideal first kit order. Let's call it a Kissena Starter Pack, so I can roll in style through winter training and into spring racing. It's...kind of a lot. But hey, I want to rep this eye-catching uniform from head to toe. I've posted the list below for feedback. I welcome comments of all kinds, though here are some specific questions that have been swimming around in my head:

Has an item proven indispensable? (Have I left an indispensable item off the list?)
Does it perform well, or is it not worth the coin?
Is it known to be durable, or poorly constructed?

I've sounded out a few members on specific gear they happened to be wearing (if you're one of them, thank you!) but figured canvassing the forum would yield some insights that could be useful not only for me but also the other new members.

So, what do you think?

• CS Tech Short Sleeve Jersey, race cut
• CS Tech Long Sleeve Jersey, race cut
• CS Bib Short, veloce chamois
• CS Tech Fleece Bib Tights, veloce chamois
• CS WindGuard Vest, hidden zipper
• Thermoshield/Tech Fleece Jacket (ThermoShield fabric is on the front only)
• Thermoshield/Neoprene Winter gloves
• Race gloves
• Lycra Arm Warmers
• Lycra Knee Warmers
• Neoprene Shoe Covers
• CS Pro Base Layer Sleeveless
• Thermal Base Layer (Sleeveless)
• Euro style cap

     And I'll head to Red Beard to round out the kit with:

• POC Octal AVIP MIPS helmet, orange (because I'm overdue to replace my current helmet anyway)
• POC AVIP Rain Booties, orange

Long list.

The basic setup, in my opinion, is two short sleeve jerseys, two shorts, vest.  That way, you're covered if you race two days in a row.

As there are consistent ordering dates this year, go conservative at the start.  You don't need everything right away.

A wind vest is an extremely versatile item, I use mine about twelve months a year.  Over a fleece jersey when it's 40f.  Over a shortsleeve jersey if it's raining and 70f.

you can always put leg warmers with the shorts, and even a thin jacket under most full-zip jerseys.  Back when clothing was hard to get produced (and I was broke), I'd often race with a short sleeve jersey in sub-freezing races.  There were always several layers underneath.

If you go with a long sleeve jersey, skip the tech, but go with a fleecy one or one with a wind-front.

With tights, the cheaper, more versatile option is without a pad, you you can use them multiple rides in a row.

I'd also recommend fleece shorts with fleece leg warmers over fleece tights.  More flexible in terms of dressing options.

With warmers, I'd stick with fleece rather than lycra.  Covers you for a longer range of temps.  

If you poke around this list, I'm sure you'll find a long discussion of the benefits and drawbacks of neoprene.  I don't like the stuff unless it's raining.

I'll also add that the thermoshield jacket is very durable, so long as you don't crash it.  The one I'm wearing I got in 2005.  And I ride plenty in the winter.

Holy crap. JP and I agree 100% on something. A couple of things in fact.

• Fleece shorts and fleece leg warmers INSTEAD of fleece tights.

• Also, while I do wear the regular long sleeve jersey (same fabric as basic jersey) on occasion, that item has a VERY narrow range of temp usability.

• Fleecy long sleeve jersey is one of my most used items...spring, fall, warm winter days. Varying the base-layer both in terms of thickness and sleeve length is all you need to do.

Now here are some things that will no doubt cause people to write things like, "I 100% disagree with Marc." But in my opinion...

• The short finger gloves never fit me well...worse than that, they "cut" between my fingers.

• CS caps that I own appear to be products of 5th grade sewing class. I keep meaning to pick up some Redbeard caps (last time I checked they were out) made by someone else. Also caps are one size fits all, and if you have a big melon like me (large helmet size) the tech caps might be too snug.

• I've never owned a CS base layer, but unless it's a screaming good deal, I'd skip CS branded ones and try to get tech shirts both in long and short sleeve on sale at Target or TJ Max or wherever.

Which vest do you guys get? The shell only?

David Yang said:

Which vest do you guys get? The shell only?

Yes

Sweet, added to cart.  It has taken me 3 years to finally suppress my gag reflex and order one. Wind vests are aesthetically too closely related to sleeveless jerseys for comfort.

Jules said:

David Yang said:

Which vest do you guys get? The shell only?

Yes

My first C-S wind vest, from the very first Kissena order, was a medium race cut.  A bit too big, but since no one had a small and I couldn't wait, I had it altered to fit.  Cost was probably $5-10. It is still working today.  The second one is of the new iteration, and I got a small.  Not only does it fit very well, but the letters on the shoulder match up with the letters on the small jersey worn underneath.

Max - we've raced against each this season for cross, and if you're still wondering about sizing, I wear a Medium race cut jersey and Medium shorts.

I'm not a fan of the thermoshield jacket. I prefer the fleece long sleeve jersey with a long sleeve wind jacket or windguard vest when it gets cold out. Both mediums. 

I like the fleece bibs but not the fleece tights (they don't seem to fit right and they chafe in certain areas).

I second Marc's opinion on the summer gloves. Hate them. They cut in between my fingers. I typically use fox lightweight full finger gloves when racing in the summer and an REI glove for the winter.

I own the long sleeve cs tech jersey, and they're useless to me. Best to just get arm warmers and basic cs tech jersey (BTW - I find that arm and leg warmers run large, I have both as Smalls). For thicker versions I use defeets.

I find the champsys base layer as great for winter but not when its warm out. They feel hotter to me. I use defeet base layers.

I've only had good fit experiences with the CS race gloves. They're the lycra backed ones without any velcro or enclosure straps. My issue with them is their delicate construction, the stitching comes apart fairly quickly around the wrist/palm area.

I would say the essentials are:

2 Shortsleeve Jeresys
2 bibshorts
1 Windshield vest

Everything else after that is nice to have. things like gloves are intensely personal decision and most CS gloves are crap, so you're better off finding another glove you like and just buying those.

Warmers also you can get better deals elsewhere (I agree with JP on the fleece rather than Lycra, since you'll have a wider range of use).

The jackets are things to add later once you've had a chance to try somebody elses to see how they fit.

The glove discussion is odd to me.  Never had a problem with CS gloves over the years, either sizing or durability.  I'm currently liking their mesh-backed glove without the velcro: it is cool on hot days, stretches well, hopefully provides some minimal gains, and the padding is pretty thin.  

If gloves are tight, it seems that the answer is to size up.  (or find someone with the next size up and try them on--eventually something will fit).

There are two caveats with my experience.  The first is I pretty much only wear short-finger gloves while racing.  So even with a hefty race calendar, gloves don't see much use from me.  I use them until they get dirty or stinky, then I wash them, and then everything is fine.  And I've never had a pair of CS gloves come unstitched.  

The second is I've never tried the CS long-finger gloves because long-finger glove sizing is always an issue for me, and I never seem to be able to try on others when it's time to order.  

But there are lots of glove choices in the world.  If you want to remain sponsor-correct, Redbeard probably has some gloves with their logo on them, and Poc certainly does (I think they can be had with blue, white and orange).  And Redbeard has a pretty decent selection of gloves beyond just those.  Giro has had an unpadded short-finger glove in orange that I find really comfy.  They also used to have some warm long-finger gloves in orange as well.  

If I were doing a first time kit order this time of year I would get the following:

Tops
-SS Jersey
-Tech Fleece Jersey
-Wind Vest
(I've worn the fleece jersey and vest with various base layers down into the low 20's)

Bottoms
-Fleece Bib Short
-Razor Carbon Bib short(not necessary this time of year for outside most likely but I don't think its worth buying the normal ones anymore)

Warmers
-Fleece leg & arm warmers

Optional Item
-Lycra knee warmers (I'm a fan, some people don't like them, and they tend to run big - let me know if you need a sz small)

The Euro cap is ok - I have one and it is warm, but it doesn't fit under helmets very well if you flip the ears up, and the visor is kind of big. Probably better off getting a skull cap for half the price.

Add my name to:

1. Long sleeve jersey not nearly as versatile as jersey with arm warmers
2. Fleece arm warmers more versatile than lycra ones

However, I disagree with the person who said a fleece jersey and a wind vest work like a jacket. Whenever it is below 40, I pretty much always wear my ThermoShield Winter Jacket and a base layer up top when training. I do have various weights of base layer, gloves, bibs, leg warmers that I use for different conditions, but the ThermoShield Winter Jacket/base layer combo are always my up-top layering. I use the jacket zipper to dump heat and moisture when necessary. Note that I said I train using that strategy -- I generally do not race with any wind protection, as I will generally overheat and get wet at race pace without optimal ventilation. 

You will get infinite opinions, but for @MaxThorn you are likely to ride/race with the team when is warm(ish) out. So here's what I suggest, as a super solid starter kit:

• 2 (or more) SS Jerseys
• 2 (or more) Bib shorts
• 1 wind vest 
• 1 set arm warmers fleece
• 1 set leg warmers fleece
• 1 Jacket -- I agree with most Fleece long sleeve does the job down to 20s with a good layer
• 1 Skinsuit (get the one with pockets) short sleeve if you like summer crits, or time trial, long sleeve is you'll cx.

I have tons of everything else kissena, but it is additional. 

Accessories: gloves, ear warmers, caps, socks, booties. You'll need those, great to have kissena branded, but ok if not. Redbeard will have everything you need and then some.

I love the long sleeve (no fleece) jersey to wear before and after racing.

If you get a jacket, make sure it has 3 pockets in the back -- the one with one pocket is incomprehensible.

If you will race CX consider a second long sleeve skinsuit.

+1 on Jeff's ThermoShield Winter Jacket routine. I do the same thing. Tired of wearing 150 layers in the winter and feeling like an overstuffed sausage (bad enough that I look like one) for the last few years, I've simply worn the jacket with one base layer underneath.

Thanks, y'all. Very helpful feedback. I posted an initial list that I knew was overly long thinking it'd be best to get many opinion before whittling it down. Thank you.

For the record, I ordered:

two CS Tech race cut short-sleeve jerseys
one bib short
one fleece bib short
fleece arm warmers
fleece leg warmers
WindGuard vest
Thermoshield jacket

I think this should keep me looking good on the group rides and in early-season races, don't you? Especially because I already own quality non-Kissena kit suitable for year-round training. I'll plan to buy another pair of bib shorts once warmer temperatures are here to stay, and then a cyclocross skin suit closer to the beginning of the season.


Miscellaneous (EDIT: long-winded) observations and responses:

If there's one piece of kit everyone seems to get behind, it's the WindGuard vest. @mugwump, on the Meet Kissena ride I noticed how the letters on your vest lined up with those on the jersey. Did they not do that before you had it tailored? I like that detail. In any case, I'm glad to hear the wind vest such a reliable layering piece throughout the year. I look forward to mine. 

Marc Bertucco said:

• CS caps that I own appear to be products of 5th grade sewing class. I keep meaning to pick up some Redbeard caps (last time I checked they were out) made by someone else. Also caps are one size fits all, and if you have a big melon like me (large helmet size) the tech caps might be too snug.

I heard similar assessments of the caps from other members, too, but for $11.50 I'm willing to take a chance on it, because I like to wear a cycling cap under my helmet in 35F-50F weather. Any colder than that and I usually wear my Assos thermal skullcap. Last Saturday I saw @eloy wearing a sharp Red Beard cap. Maybe I'll grab one of those if the Kissena cap by Champ Sys disappoints. 

Marc Bertucco said:

• I've never owned a CS base layer, but unless it's a screaming good deal, I'd skip CS branded ones and try to get tech shirts both in long and short sleeve on sale at Target or TJ Max or wherever.

The CS base layers look to be somewhat less expensive than ones from brands like Craft, Castelli, et al. If y'all had raved about the CS base layers, I would have thrown one in my cart, just to see what the hype was about. I already have a couple reliable base layers anyway (though they're a little loose-fitting, as they're not specific to cycling). 

Phil Maronilla said:

I'm not a fan of the thermoshield jacket. I prefer the fleece long sleeve jersey with a long sleeve wind jacket or windguard vest when it gets cold out. 

Why don't you like the Thermoshield jacket? I definitely see the sense in your system, though. If I could afford it, I'd have added the fleece long sleeve jersey and a wind jacket to my order. Layers! Options!


About gloves: since I already have gloves that perform well for me, both short and long-fingered, I left the CS gloves off this order. I mostly just wanted them because they match the kit. The CS race gloves are on my short list for another order later this year, if I can try before I buy. 

SeanMiles said:

-Razor Carbon Bib short(not necessary this time of year for outside most likely but I don't think its worth buying the normal ones anymore)

Why do you think it's not worth buying the normal ones anymore? 

SeanMiles said:

-Lycra knee warmers (I'm a fan, some people don't like them, and they tend to run big - let me know if you need a sz small)

In what conditions do you usually find yourself wearing them? 

eloy said:

I love the long sleeve (no fleece) jersey to wear before and after racing.

I think I'd like this, too. I put one in my cart but removed it to save a little money for now. 

@MaxThorn, totally pro. 

eloy said:

@MaxThorn, totally pro. 

+1