I think there is a wufoo sign up form delivered via email a few weeks ago. @JillSink might have deets or I can fwd to you.

David Yang said:

I think there is a wufoo sign up form delivered via email a few weeks ago. @JillSink might have deets or I can fwd to you.

Thanks, @David Yang just used the form to sign up. Waiting on next steps.

Hey! New Kissena member trying to get up to speed. Could someone please forward a copy of the sign up form?

Thanks

Team,

I am not sure how the sign up works on the Kissena side but once your sign up is confirmed, you will get an instructional email walking you through the process.

Team,

I have next cycle plans written and was about to load but wanted to see is anyone wants to try either a HIIT cycle or a VO2Max HIIT cycle.  Based off earlier comments, if truly time challenged and want to try, I have one of each i can share.  The HIIT is based of Tmax protocol and the VO2Max is based off FTP/power.

Let me know before tomorrow morning and I will post plans then

I'm fine with the time allotted for the plans right now, but I'd probably be fine with either as long as the HIIT doesn't kill me.  And I actually think the workouts are tough right now.  Doing 3 sets of FRC and then 2 sets of SST is exhausting!  

I just read about Tmax and that route seems totally gnarly.  Personally I would like to try it out, but either method will most likely be hard enough to shut me up about not feeling completely beat up at the end.

Related: I found the 45 minute SST last night harder than the interval stuff.  I had to focus really hard to keep a steady rhythm to stay within the zone.

HIIT

David Yang, I'm late to the party on this one, and I think your question was answered well be Tim and others, but, I started writing this response a while ago and figured I might as well post it too.

http://kissenacycling.vanillaforums.com/discussion/741/mentoring#latest

Read Marc's point, it is well said.  Here are some additional thoughts from me in the absence of being able to train 15+ hours a week 

There are four types of "intensity":
1.  High = about 120% of FTP and above
2.  Med/High = 105%-120%
3.  Med = 80%-105%
4.  NOT = < 80%

All cyclists training under 12-15 hours a week are doing some form of HIIT based on the above, just a matter of content and the relationship.  Marc's answer is great and little to add but here are two points:  first, as a time crunched athlete, you need to recognize WHAT system is best focused on.  So let's start here.  Cycling is an aerobic sport, period. Even in a 30 minute crit, aerobic contribution is significantly higher then you would want to believe.  To me, this means when time challenged, you need to ask is "how do I get the maximal aerobic benefit out of my time....in base (more on this later)".  Second, for most racers, FTP is the single biggest determination of success and time built racing FTP tends to return the best results.  Of course there are other factors, but when time crunched you are sort of stuck playing the odds.  Odds say, raise FTP.

Now the KEY element is Time.  Marc makes a great point, you really cannot substitute training one energy system for another (example of endurance vs. VO2).  The solution is to do them progressively through periodization (there are all types of periodization, this example is linear).  Systems build ON one another, they are each unique but related.  It is not a series of light switches with one flipping on and the other flipping off, it is more transitional.

So what is the best HIIT solution?  The one you are on.  My plans for the team are general as there are for different riders, different limitations, schedules and stuff but there is a progression if you are looking:

Base 1 & 2 = NOT or MED Intensity with lots of time in Tempo / SST to build both your aerobic system (yes, this is aerobic intensity, you are still aerobic) with the focus of pushing your FTP up from below AND building some stamina / fatigue resistance.

Base 3 & Build 1 = A blend of MED and MED/HIGH.  Now we are adding true FTP work a touch of stuff in the 100-105% range (look at the avg of your FRC intervals, what is the avg power to your FTP relationship?...bet in that range).  Still a lot of time at Med intensity.  Rest timing becomes more important.

Build 2 and beyond = MED/HIGH and HIGH - now we go HIIT as the term is commonly use.  Why now??  Because if you go through the Base and Build you can typically do about 20-30% MORE HIIT training then just jumping into it.  You have a higher FTP so can go harder because of all the lower intensity you were doing.  You have greater stamina so can go hard longer, because you did the longer, but slightly lesser intensity.  This WILL RESULT IN YOU PERFORMING BETTER! Just jumping into the HIIT not bad, but wont reach the same heights .....  Some might, no absolutes and Marc's other point really good, it is also about what motivates you,  If you like to suffer, the TMAX protocol is a killer...

Just some food for thought, let me know by tomorrow what plan you want. 

I'll stay on the current plan.

Super post Tim, very insightful. 

I built this table comparing zones long ago and would love your thoughts. Having lived in CTS land for a long time (don't hate, my coach isn't Carmichael) I can tell you the difference between "base' being 90%+ of FTP and the seeming luxurious indulgence of 75-90 is huge.

(I would also say the years when I de-facto lingered for more weeks under 90% I feel like I finished my arcs fitter, which would jive with what you are saying)

Thanks, Tim. I should be starting next week. Just please place me in whatever you think is best.

Last season brought real improvements -- looking forward to 2016.

Tim whatever the group is cool with I'm sure will be perfectly fine for me too. Mostly looking to maximize my limited training time and after reading through your and Marc's and everyone's great input seems like at this point in the year it's really just pushing up the base fitness to build on top of when it comes to race season.  

Last night was tough! 25 minutes at FTP with 30s VO2max intervals q 2 mins. Feel the pain and repeat! As us Minnesotans say: Uff dah!

I'll stay with current.

Fitness test this Saturday!  Let's keep everyone accountable by posting our results.  Who's doing it?

This is also a great place to start for people just jumping into the plan.  I don't know if I want to make my embarrassing numbers public (though you can prob Strava stalk my profile), but will post after I'm done.

planning on the test Saturday too -- but no way in hell I will post the numbers. Will be hard fun.

I'm picking up my Stages this week so will have numbers other than HR to work with.  I'm anticipating, once setting my FTP, moving into a different type of workout that will take an adjustment of a week or two.  
To prepare psychologically for this test, I'd just like to put out there that this test is awful I don't like it it's hard it sucks and should be buried and forgotten.
Now that I got that off my chest, yes, let's have some fun.

I'm kind of loving all the rest this week leading up to it after the stupid amounts snow shoveling last few days.

Yes, and I thought last weeks workouts were pretty tough too!  I think I'm going to do the fitness test Thursday because we're headed to San Fran Friday.

Any of the new members have any insight or comments on how the training is going? Also again, this Saturday's "test" is a good place to start the program of you haven't already!

I'll take you up on your prompt, @David Yang. I came to this thread tonight to ask
@TimCusick a couple questions anyway.

When I signed up in the beginning of January, I decided to try the Four-Week Foundation Plan that my "welcome" email from Peaks suggested as preparation for the racing plan. I wanted to ease into the habit of daily training, which is something I'd never done before, at least in cycling. Jumping right into the middle of the club plan, full of exercises with then-inscrutable acronyms and unfamiliar concepts, would've made it that much harder to get up early in the morning. Yesterday, Sunday, I completed week three of the plan--and had managed to enjoy doing it outside in Prospect Park and avoid the trainer until the blizzard hit on Saturday. 

Now I've decided to sync up with the rest of the Cat 3-5 riders on the new training plan now in its first week. But I'm wondering if I really need to take the upcoming test, because I actually did one recently. I wanted bring hard numbers to my new plan (I'd theretofore been using good ol' RPE), so last Friday I decided to do the test, before I knew that the new plan would call for one during its first week. So, questions: Is there any training value to taking the test again so soon? If not, how should I train this week instead? 

My new numbers raise a few more questions. I'm using a heart rate monitor. First, when doing 30-second VO2 Max intervals, by the time I have confirmation that I'm in the right zone, the interval is over. I was basically turning up the effort by feel, with after-the-fact verification that I'd hit the target (or hadn't). Am I doing something wrong, or is this how training with a HR monitor works?

Second new-number question: what does it mean if it's more difficult than I thought it might be to hit my target VO2 Max heart rate? I mean, it should be pretty difficult...right? According to my (maybe premature) test, my threshold HR is 181. My TrainingPeaks account then calculates my VO2 Max at 191-255, using the Andy Coggans (5) method for Lactate Threshold. My resting heart rate is 60. Do these numbers raise any red flags?

I noticed two openers this week ahead of the ftp test, is this standard?

Max, I had some thoughts on your questions and I posted them over here:

http://kissenacycling.vanillaforums.com/discussion/741/mentoring#latest

Max - Marc gives a great answer, hard for me to add.  First off, Andy would tell you that the training LEVELS are descriptive not prescriptive.  I will tell you an inside secret, when we first created the power training levels, then HR training levels we never thought people would be as "precise".  They were simply a series of science based % of threshold (FTP or Threshold Heart Rate) to give guidance when reviewing intervals (descriptive) but the immediately became "prescriptive" and everyone just targeted those numbers.  This was a beneficial but unattended "consequence" of the work (being prescriptive). This works really well in general.  

That being said, for intervals, history is actually the best guidance.  To make sure you are truly getting the best possible work done and gaining fitness, you need to keep a "lit" of interval performance.  When you train with power, this is easy as that is an accurate measure of training load.  Simply put if you did 2 x 20 with 5 minute rest two weeks ago at 250 watts and this week you did 255 watts, you are measuring performance.  In your next set you will target 255-260watts as a target even if this does not fully align with your  training levels.  This gets way harder to track in HR training as you get fitter, your HR does not get FASTER.  You need to measure the output in something that will chance, like distance.  For HR training indoor and outdoor, you need to mark / measure distance.  This can be prety informal, I do it even though i have power and advanced analytics.  I have a local short loop takes me about 20 minutes.  I ride it by RPE (and watch avg power) and know if I dont get to the bridge, I suck....if I get to other side of the bride, well that OK, if i hit the speed limit sign, starting to get in shape and if i can get to the stop sign in 20, not bad form.....  I then go back and review numbers and the experiences match (meaning the numbers validate the feelings).  On trainer, mark laps and measure distance covered (make sure same gear every time).

Finally, there is a question in your question.  From a data stand point as you age your HR will drop and there can be more variation between max and threshold heartrate.  As we see this variation, we tend to be concerned about heart health and what is "norm".  If you have concerns, see a doc...cyclists are like junk yard dogs, don't give up, don't listen to bodies.

OK wrote that before first cup of coffee complete, excuse typos.

Two or Three openers, do by feeling.