Kissena Forum Archive

2011 Racing

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John,

If we had a Donut Plant sponsorship I'd be 200lbs and I would never get up a hill ever again. Lets not suggest those ideas.

Thanks
Dan "Tubby on the inside" Reiners
Kissena/Stumptown - I'm all for it.
Dan, all I can say is Coooo coooo nut creeeeme!

Dave, if we sign with Stumptown it's compulsory knickerbockers and smoking pipes. Eh what?

Pump yourself up for some Cat 5 tomorrow: https://player.vimeo.com/video/21191135
We have 4 guys (5 counting me, not pre-reg) for the Branchbrook Cat 4/5 Second race (7:52 am) Other teams have 2 riders at most. I think we can get a decent break going, with three guys in it and two blocking?

Anyway it depends on what you guys wanna do, I'll be near registration around 7:30 if anyone wants to join me for a pre-race meeting.
Big morning tomorrow gents. This will be my first in a Kissena kit. Shall we win this thing?

Yes, the answer is yes. See you soon.
Mueller...Mueller.....Bueller.....Bueller

I might've rigged Shaq Jr. into working. Gonna take it out for a long spin tomorrow. If it goes well, I'll join you Sunday @ PP race. Although, we should head to a spot and watch de Ronde before heading over the GWB, no? Post-race breakfast and coffee, then some inspired miles over into Jersey sound good. Anyway, that's my plan if the bike is smooth.
Perlberg -4th from a break
JP 8th - Chase Group
Me - 11th - another story as I also took last...
all i have to add is:

ouch ouch ouch
Ditto molly...
6th place (just out of the points).

Andrew and I went clear out of the blocks (I couldn't help it, it clicked straight in!). Andrew did a huge pull up the hill and we had a good gap for half lap? Going near limit on hill every lap and then high tempo created a split field (lap 3?) David S. and Andrew got caught out. Graham how did you do?

That big guy in black (Spartacus junior) was killing it, almost rode me off his wheel a couple of times (note to self: get him on team!). I think that cut it down to 10. Seemed like there were just four of us who were interested in working, occasional pull from the others sitting on. David Vollback was a major driver the whole race, very impressive, covering moves, riding line like a lazer and was out front when it slowed. (I think we broke away for a while too).

Bell lap, we were getting fed up with the sitters, so Spartacus and blue guy hatched a plan to attack on hill (Genius!). They really put the screws on but kind of faltered halfway up (headwind). I had David's wheel, he accelerated over the top. We maybe ping'd one guy.

David started a one-man leadout train from the downhill. And had riders seriously strung out. Unfortunately it was about 400m too early. I was on his wheel and tried to tell him to ease off (accursed wind).

OK, so right here, I should have slowed to get the wheel of a sprinter (I think there were 8 or 9 riders left). But I hung on. And riding second wheel on someone who's a bit smaller into a headwind isn't great math (you really do have to work). I decided too late to try and get back as D started to fade. And then, I just didn't have any gas for the sprint.
Kicking myself now. Should have chatted with D about new plan, or let D roll away as bait so at least someone had to chase.

Lesson for me: In that scenario at PP with 2 out of 8, we both should have been conserving and jockeying for a sprint. Must adapt tactics to race!

Tomorrow I intend to wheel-suck all day. That guy who crashed me out last week has two high placings (AJD? Results? Ever?). Might even have the jersey. Grrrr.
We've heard from the other races. How'd the 3/4 go today?

I'll be out there tomorrow.
At branchbrook 4/5 race # 1 Andrew crashed out (he's okay, just some really bad road rash). Konrad got 10th

At the second race It was me, Konrad & Josh. MTBNJ controlled much of the race in beginning. Second lap around I bridged to a group of 3 but we got caught soon after. In the third lap one guys goes off the front (unattached), and gets about a 25m gap. I bridge up to him. I tell him if we work together we got this, we did for about half a lap. At that point he said he was done and told me to go if I can. I did, and got to Javier (Cycle craft). We worked together for the last 4 laps. The sprint came along, I was infront of him waiting for him to go, he didn't so i did. 50m from the line i couldn't hang on, finished about 5m behind him. I thought we had atleast a 1 minute gap, a official later told me it was 20 seconds but I don't believe that. Little did we both know there was another rider 30 seconds up from us. Ended the day with 3rd, Konrad sprinted to 7th. Josh finished both races. Great day

How was the sandy hook tt?
Anything interesting at PP today? I took out Shaq Jr. and it seems ok, probably costing me a few watts with my crappy bb job, but I'll be there tomorrow for some reinforcements.

Ran into Greg and Craig over the GWB and had a nice ride. Donovan lives, ladies and gentlemen!!!! I've seen it.
Thanks John,
Anyone else racing tomorrow?
See you there,
Man, those guys can race, but they sure suck at writing race reports, huh? I'll add my bit here, which is going to be brief because the JP, Ragot and Perlberg were in the thick of it all day long and should have more to say once they've recovered.

The racing has been varied and interesting all month long in this spring series. In fact the only thing that has been constant, is that field sprinter specialist, Ricky Lowe, does this 'fake attack" at the very start of the race, looks back and people laugh and he sits up. Which makes me laugh, that people laugh, because he does this every race. Today though, Ricky had company. Eric Ragot launches from the middle of the pack gets up to Ricky and keeps on going up the hill and around the corner.

Something in the water supply must have changed because usually the field would let these kinds of early race moves go, but not this year. It's a whole new ball game. Riders start flying after Ragot. I see Perberg jump after the would-be chasers, a few more riders go, and then I see JP go hard too. And we haven't even hit the halfway point of the climb on the first lap! And suddenly, I'm in the "peloton" with ALL of my teammates up the road. Sweet. Well, bittersweet, if I'm to be honest.

One of those guys is going to have to fill in details of what happened next. Because I was sort of stuck in a group of 4 WS United riders, 3 Mengoni's and an assortment of privateers who wouldn't/couldn't coordinate to pull back the first lap escapees. After many laps and being bored to tears in my group, I went on the climb with one of the more aggressive teammateless riders, but we got nowhere and nothing but a snarky crack from Mengoni's Jared Bunde as the group pulled us back.

How slow was the laughing group going? Well, as the lead group of four LAPPED us, I was super pumped to see our very own Mike Perlberg in it with Garmin pro Gavi Epstein, Mengoni's Brian Breech and former Kissena Tad Marzalek.

And in the second group was JP, and a little further down the way was Ragot. The field was shredded, but 3 out of 4 of Kissena starters had legit shots at placing in the money. In the end, 4th, 8th and 11th. If this race were scored NCAA track and field style, Kissena would win the team competition, hands down, no question.
hell yes!

nice work, dudes!
Post race addendum on team tactics....

I should probably let JP tell this story as I was just a witness to the conversation, but he's probably busy playing one on one basketball, getting dunked on by his boy, and I think it's an important point to make.

Last week, a rider complained to me about how we were riding as a team (namely, he didn't think Perlberg's early race move last week warranted the full force of JP blocking at the front). And this week, a rider approached JP after the race and wasn't happy that JP wouldn't work with him to bridge to the Perlberg front group. (notice a theme, anyone?) Upset Guy's point, was that if JP had helped, then they could have bridged and then there would have been two Kissena's in the front move.

Maybe yes and maybe no. From my point of view, if I have a strong guy up the road in a small break, especially 1 out of 4, I'm ALWAYS going to block. While it's true, combined efforts may bring you up to the group, but then what do you have? 2 in 6? Yeah, okay, that's technically better odds, but what if you drag a few other guys across the gap too. Then what are the odds? What if the effort you make bridging that gap blows your legs, so when someone counters this front move you've got nothing, and since your teammate up front has been riding hard to stay away, he can't react to counters and suddenly you've got no one in the front group anymore?

In fact, today, Epstein and Breech, after riding smoothly with Perberg and Tad lap after lap, blew it up on the climb with one or two laps to go, because, I don't know, they didn't feel like sprinting against 3 guys? If those guys weren't happy riding to the finish line with 4, what do you think they would have done mid-race, if they saw JP, Upset Guy and god knows who else coming across the gap? Yeah, they would have launched again shredding everything to hell. As it was, they were happy to have two extra motors keeping their little group away for all but the last few laps.

Last week at FBF, Perlberg was in a similar situation, and the math made sense to him, so after sitting on a chase group that was going after the JP lead group, he started working and they bridged and all was happy and good.

Every race situation is different and requires an individual tactical decision, but as a GENERAL rule, if you've got 1 in 4 in the lead group that includes two of the strongest NYC riders around (this week it was Breech and Epstein), those are very, very good odds. And everyone else should be prepared to be blocked, yo.
Nice work at Branchbrook guys --kudos.

cat3/4 @ Prospect (tweet style report): Sprint finish Joe 8th, the usual covering w/ JeffW, Gideon, Dan, JoshM, DStokes, myself & Carl. Did I miss anyone?

Sorry for the twitter length report --got some work to do-- plus I was too lathery delicious in hurt to record much of what was going on this morning. And I sure as hell wasn't there at the end, as my fitness (like my Spooky frameset) has not been delivered yet.
It was hard in the break, I'm sure. But I'm guessing they rode steady, which, after mine and Eric's ride in the chase group, strikes me as pretty sweet.

Eric took off right away. Nice. I figured the field would let it go, but Brian Breach was up there (I believe), and the field was going crazy. We had to be at the front. I followed some moves on the first lap, the hardest of which was when I sensed Gavi attacking, was right, dug deep, got on his wheel, and hoped he'd just motor me up to the break. He sat up. Second time up the hill, I think I went with one move when I saw Eric fading, which was brought back, and over the top (I think) Gavi went again. This time, with Mike close enough to respond. Nice move.

Several riders in the field were hot to chase. I figured I'd cover them. But the guys who were interested in chasing didn't want me sitting on. They told me I should be chasing with them. My feeling was as Mike's last week, that if they took me away from the field and made it most of the way up, I'd work to finish it off. But when they're asking after only a minute and we only have a few seconds on the field, I think they're not confident of getting up, and if they're not, I should be doubly careful about helping them. After a lap or two of going with everything that looked good, the guys who wanted to chase had created a group of eight or ten. I knew they had given up when I had someone beg me, "don't you want a top ten?" I guess that's praise. I had no idea anyone was behind; I thought Marc must have flatted and everyone else must have quit.

As for last week, reasonable people can differ on whether or not I should have chased down a teammate when he only had a five-second lead on the field and the break up the road. My belief is that typically, when the field chases a move down, it sits up. I wanted Mike to get away. Even if his group established a gap over the field wihtout catching the break, that was doing us well, and would afford me a chance to follow a counter up there. Last week, when the field chased down Mike's move, it sat up.

Back to this week. Eric and I were there, as were two JV riders and two Axis, and a smattering of riders, most of whom saw themselves as sprinters.

The JV and Axis teams had their stronger riders pulling (franklin burgos and jeff cline respectively) and their weaker riders skipping pulls. Several riders weren't pulling through at all. Eric and I took token turns at the front, but periodically, someone would attack like gangbusters, ruining the chase. I knew Jeff Cline was going to attack with Al Barouh but wasn't sure where. Unfortunately, it happened when I was at the front. The others were pretty tired. Eric put in a good move, but everyone was all over him. Unfortunately, he was caught just as we started the downhill. And we sat up

I attacked the group once we were down the hill. Al, Jeff, and Franklin, already had a nice gap; felt like it was over ten seconds when I started my chase. I had Will Schneider with me. I was giving everything while he took short token pulls. I should have attacked him up the hill, but figured he'd help me finish the chase. He didn't. Took me almost a lap to chase them down. So now we were five with three to go. Will immediately started skipping pulls; Franklin was putting in attacks to shed Will I think. Didn't work. On the last lap, we rode pretty slowly until the final K. I wasn't the first to jump, but I didn't wait long enough. Another mistake.

Great rides all around.
can't help myself.

I spoke with both Gavi and Brian after the race. They said they knew that when a Kissena is in the break, they're going to get support from his teammates in the field. This is a good thing. If people know we're racing to support our riders, the break is more likely to work with us because they have greater belief in the success of the effort.
I only have a couple of things to add.

Eric attacked at the start with a few others, I couldn't tell who. I tried to stay near the front but not pull. A group tried to go across to Eric, and I tried to sit in without getting in the way. People get angry about this, which is weird, but whatever.

JPs group caught us, which I thought was the field but really it was a small group. I saw Gavi's attack toward the top of the hill and figured the entire field would go with him and it wouldn't work. But I figured it was my job being close to the front to cover it. I saw Ben Woodbury coming across as well so I waited for him to save myself some energy. I figured Brian would wait up for him and I was correct. This turned out to be very helpful because saving that tiny bit of energy was crucial. I was totally on the edge turning myself inside out to stay in the group. Ben got dropped up the climb on the same lap but I pushed myself to stay in touch. Once the break was established we switched from short hard pulls to longer tempo pulls. Gavi and Brian were taking long hard pulls, Tad and I were doing a bit less but I tried to do my fair share without putting myself in trouble.

Nothing much to report for the rest of the break. We were catching fields left and right and lapped the field. Those guys communicated well and Tad was nice to ride with. He gave me a nice slap on the ass after we lapped the field. The lap counting was all crazy and I had no idea what was going on. I kept saying to myself, what the hell did I get myself into. It was a long hard day.

With 2 to go Brian attacked on the hill and Gavi went with him. I had just come off the front and was hoping to hop of Tad's wheel but Tad sat up and I went around and tried to chase. He just sat on my wheel and told me to ride steady, they will play games and we can catch them. It never happened. I should have realized Tad was hurting (he was showing signs early.) and been in a better position at that point in the race. We played some games for the last lap and said good race and shook hands. Then we sprinted. I tried to shake him early but couldn't. Everything was cramping. He came around but not fast. I got decently close at the line, for people who have seen my terrible sprinting I'm actually a little proud of getting this close.

http://www.oneimagingphotography.com/Cyclings/NYC-Spring-Series-Race-2011-42/16447220_UmH7j#1237327463_ixoP8

Great race out there.
My legs hurt.
I attacked right after I got to the front and blew by Tad and Brian Breech. I rode hard up the hill and wondered why I wasn't yet caught, so as I got to the top I eased off. Brian and Tad came along and I was on the rivet. But, we were staying away. I really needed a couple of more guys to come across, three wasn't going to be enough as my legs were stuffed from a good week of training.

As I see we're getting caught (and I'm dying) on the hill on lap 2, I ease up to go back to the pack as Gavi and Mike attack to get to Brian and Tad. OK, I think Mike's up there again. I plan to ease back into the pack for a bit, but the pack is only around 12 guys at best. Now, it makes sense that the field shattered. It only took 14 hours....

So, JP and I rolled through and it annoyed people. People left the chase group. My HR strap was around my belly. That was fun. I eventually fixed it. Ricky Lowe was annoyingly on the back.

So, I lost all respect for Ricky as a racer. Here's why:

Jeff Cline launched an attack and two others (Al and I guess Franklin) go after it. Now, JP and I have a problem as they won't catch Mike, but we're losing places. Thankfully JP rolled off with Will and eventually made it across as I could ride Ben Woodbury's wheel (not going to chase my guy down). Plus, my legs were stuffed (I don't ride this far often - endurance is for after the crit season is over). So, JP is making it across as Ben and I are losing contact. Ricky Lowe waits and waits behind us and launches to get across by the finish line. Ben and I keep rolling to find Ricky losing his poop as unable to catch on the hill. We scoop him up.

Around 5th street, I tell Ricky that he has to pull. He won't. I tell Ben that we need to have Ricky pull. Ben doesn't seem to understand what Ricky will do. Well, we've got 4 miserable laps left and I just want some extra rest. Ricky will beat us in the sprint unless we get rid of him, but given that we're now off the chase, we're not the strongest. Well, another two laps goes by and finally I am done pulling RIcky around, so as the downhill starts, I pull wide and Ricky won't get on Ben's wheel. I ask him to pull and his response is why am I so worried about one person? Imbecile. Ben rides off, I keep riding and keep Ben in striking distance. Then I pull off and Ricky still won't pull, so I sit up and take it easy.

Ben was 10th place. Ricky and I talked and I'm like what the hell do you want? My legs are stuffed, I have a family and job and am tired. If he had worked with me, we still could have brought Ben back. But he was too worried about why I was worried about him. He pulled out at the bell, I continued solo for 11th - first out of the money.

SO, here is the thing. I get it if a sprinter makes a break and the break can't shake him - we're going to lose the sprint - fair enough. But here, we're out of it and its a matter of easing the suffering for all. He apparently would rather lose a paying spot than ride like a bike racer. I apparently would rather lose a shot at money to stand by my principles.

Ah well, I just need better legs. But still, Ricky raced like a douche.

Good teamwork. Will Schneider is lame.

Eric
Sat. race: As John said we really put the hammer down from the start. Wasn't really planned but as soon as the whistle blew John flew out of the gates and I didn't want him taking the wind so I jumped in front and tried to put in a hard pace. At the top of the hill, John swung around and put in a huge pull and we got a good gap... Half way through the first lap a group of 15 or so had bridged up, but for the rest of the field, their race was over... Pace was extremely high for the next 1-2 laps. Field then started to spit again near the top of the hill, David and John were up front and I was really in the red, so I sat in with the chase group... We dangled off the back for next lap, two unattached riders were really pulling hard trying to gap, but after a lap, the lead group was gone. Once I knew we weren't going to make the catch, I put some hard pulls in at the front for some good interval training before battenkill. It was nice to be smaller groups and finally not have anyone hit the pavement...

John ended up 6th, not sure where David ended up?? In retrospect, I maybe should have assisted in the chase to help John in the lead out as I only would have helped bring 4-5 other riders up to the group. Not really sure what the best move was, but at that time I knew how strong John was in the sprint and freelancing his way through the pack that I thought he'd benefit from fewer riders...

How'd things go today???
Andrew, I think your instinct was good not to pull with the other riders. The onus was on the other teams/riders to chase with Kissena's up the road, plus who knows what the sitters might do. Another tactic would be to attack and try to bridge solo, even if you don't make it you're blocking by breaking the chase group's flow. I think David Vollback was 8th.

Another 2nd today. Jorge and I were planning on sitting in the bunch for the sprint as Saturday's race was fairly hard, Jorge hadn't had a chance to train last week and the wind was light. That plan was pretty much blown to shreds immediately. A rider from Portland (Ben), did what I did yesterday, stirring Sam Salisbury into action (the big watts guy). When I saw Sam go I grabbed his wheel, Jorge was on my wheel. I think there was an initial selection of 10 or so? Jorge? I got in the mix quickly because the No.2 & 3 in points missed the bus. The pace was fast—no letting up into the next hill and I think that's when we dropped maybe 4 riders, including Jorge. It was tough, the guys were surging through and creating gaps in the paceline and I was kind of worried we'd end up with too few riders to stick the 7 laps. I started asking nicely (shouting) to keep it smooth and not leave gaps, and the group started to ride well. I think lap 3 we got stuck behind the Cat 4 bunch, which gave us a rest, but there were a few nervous glances back down the road. Big sprinter looking guy flatted to make it Alexie (NYvelo), Sam, Portland dude. We then caught Masters bunch? Bell lap I was psyching myself up to cover on the hill, but no attacks. 4 up sprint, I went early-left Portland saw and raised me 3 bike lengths.

Attached an excellent "stretching for cyclists" PDF and the points standings for the Spring Series. Hopefully I won't need to ride the TT, but if I do, does anyone have advice on clip-ons for road bikes?

Cheers all in the Cat 5 — we're nearly there! Be great to get a Kissena win here. Great group ride to Piermont today too—thanks Eric for the motorpacing.
Pro 123, 4, Masters...
Congrats to John for his 2nd today and all other participating Kissenas over the weekend! Thanks to Eric and John for pulling me and waiting for me today while I was "taking it" leger-ly! (well not really...).

John, could you please if not too much trouble email the "stretching" PDF to yvaltchev@gmail.com? Thanx
There are a million stories in the naked peloton and this is one of them...After waiting on various unmarked lines at registration I lined up for my 1st Prospect race of the season with nary a moment to spare. I'm not too familiar with many of my cat IV teammates this year so I quietly waited for the start (I've been doing social-cognitive intervals to improve this). After 1.5 laps struggling with a bootie zipper that would not stay up I noticed a break popped off the front after the climb. Fighting my obsessive compulsive urge to get the damn zipper to stay up I finally set off in pursuit and bridged to the break that was actually a small split that was whittled down to about a 12 man break after 4 laps of strange surges and blocking. It became clear that half the break was Scotto's riders...they reproduce like tribbles! They ran an attack & block clinic sending their riders up the road and smothering the chase. Nothing stuck and with about 5 to go I noticed Victor Chan taking pictures at the top of the climb and being a shamelessly opportunistic narcissist, I attacked for a photo op that morphed into a Scotto's led counter that wound up staying away. My allergies were on EPO today and I was constantly relieving my congestion through my nose and mouth (sorry to anyone who rode near me today). With about 2 to go on the downhill I SMASHED a traffic cone and thought my days of walking upright could be over. The rubber side stayed down and I forged on. The 2 riders who attacked the break were gone and another 2 riders attacked and managed to stay just ahead of the chase. In the finale I saw Jeff and asked him to slot in behind me but I don't think he heard me. I'm not sure how much it would have mattered as Jeff did alot of work in the break today. I'm sorry I wasn't able to do more but my allergies had me functioning with essentially one lung. I came really close to getting shelled from the break at Floyd last week and was worried about a repeat performance. It's my 4th race and this one didn't hurt quite as much as the other 3 (the fact that I did not regurgitate during the race tells me the fitness is on the rise). I am highly amenable to suggestion so in future races if I am assigned a role I will get into character for the team. I have no goals or ambitions this season other than riding fast so If there is need for a lead out or domestique, I'm your huckleberry. Oh I think I plodded across the line in 9th or 10th.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it...hey are the pics up yet?
Yack-fu
Ungh. I was little more tired from yesterday over the bridge than I planned on. And Joe wasn't there, so it was time for taking part in *another* long break. What was I thinking? Yacks pretty much summed it up: 4 or 5 Scottos guys taking turns attacking the group (why the pack let like 4 guys from one team barnstorm off the front, I dunno). They played it smart (although one of them is really annoying). Two Hudson guys, with Misha not doing any work (wisely) and a few other guys. The best was the big champ-sys dude wearing all black. I don't think he took ONE pull, but no one seemed to mind b/c the break was so big. I had actually completely forgotten about him until the last lap, where I did my customary blow up and he came by. Hey, it's you! Kinda funny and good if you can get away with it. One of these days I'm going to swallow my pride and do less work in a break. I dunno why I feel some sort of responsibility to give it everything I have when most other people aren't. I'm not a clever racer like that. Sorry I didn't hear you at the end, Yacks. I was thinking I could lead you out b/c you're a better sprinter, but i was toast.

Next time!
Meanwhile, the pack tried a strategy of slowing to a crawl in hopes that you guys might get worried and come back to check on us. Then, the 1/2/3 fugitivi came through, then the 1/2/3 pack, the latter deciding to Mutual-ize with us, making for a rather nicely sized group ride. Then it got fast in the final 1.5 laps and I got dropped.