Apr 28, 2013 at 02:00 AM
Well done Patrick; slugging it out in the early season races will pay dividends soon enough. Wish I could have been there!
Quabbin Reservoir Classic Road Race
Apr 28, 2013 at 09:11 AM
143 riders in a 3/4 field seem irresponsible to me.
Apr 28, 2013 at 03:24 PM
Still not a USAC race.
Does anyone know why?
What could USAC require that could be so onerous or change the race? Cost of insurance? Or maybe its something political?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Does anyone know why?
What could USAC require that could be so onerous or change the race? Cost of insurance? Or maybe its something political?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Apr 28, 2013 at 03:30 PM
I think it is political.
Apr 28, 2013 at 04:53 PM
No it's insurance costs. Rumor is all Dieter's races are going to go that way.
Apr 28, 2013 at 04:59 PM
Awesome. Upgrades only from park races.
Apr 28, 2013 at 05:07 PM
I think Dieter's departure from UCI & USAC are a sign of things to come.
CX season will be very interesting this year.
Apr 28, 2013 at 06:34 PM
Yeah, if that happens Joe and I and guys like us chances of getting out of the 3s take a huge blow. Also, what will it even mean anymore to upgrade...with the new rules anyone with time to train can to upgrade to 3 by racing local, but on the other hand you can go win Battenkill, and every stage of Tour of the Catskills and Fitchburg and you're also still a 3. Everyone is a Category 3 I guess.
Apr 28, 2013 at 08:14 PM
With some time and perspective, I'm a little disappointed with that race. I did the 3/4 with Joe and Jeff C. I went down in the big crash. Both me and the bike are OK. I landed on a bed of lycra-clad bodies and carbon. Relatively comfy landing actually. Spent the rest of the race chasing.
All in all, irresponsible race organisation I think. I can think of about 5 reasons why the organiser was way off base with his actions. Funny, 5 minutes before the crash I was considering abandoning because multiple factors made the race very, very dangerous. Talked myself out of it as I had "come all this way...". Hope to avoid that crap in future. Going to upgrade this week.
Apr 28, 2013 at 08:17 PM
^^ "like" the upgrade part - the rest sucks
(and makes me glad I didn't go!)
Apr 28, 2013 at 08:31 PM
Was a pleasure to meet up with Joe, Jeff and Patrick though. Patrick therapised me.
Apr 29, 2013 at 08:53 PM
Apr 29, 2013 at 08:59 PM
Never, in the history of human conflict, have I ever seen a video portray how fucking 'destruction derby' a race was more accurately than that one.
Apr 29, 2013 at 09:06 PM
Notice how the crashes are avoided by going into the oncoming lane. I don't even want to imagine the carnage that would have occurred had a car been coming the other way. Jesus
Apr 29, 2013 at 09:41 PM
Yep that video was about right.
Apr 29, 2013 at 10:34 PM
The part with multiple dropped bidons littering the roadway in the middle of the group while there are high speed vehicles oncoming is pretty scary.
Not that that's the promotors fault. Just harrowing.
Not that that's the promotors fault. Just harrowing.
Apr 29, 2013 at 10:45 PM
Notice how the crashes are avoided by going into the oncoming lane. I don't even want to imagine the carnage that would have occurred had a car been coming the other way. JesusExactly my thought (shudder)
Apr 29, 2013 at 10:47 PM
Glad you boys weren't hurt in those servings-up of asphalt pie. Sorry it flummoxed the fun and glory and prize monies of your day.
Hope you guys wipe this one off the books with a good whoopin' up in a race coming soon!
Apr 29, 2013 at 11:18 PM
It does bring up a question,though. Is the promoter skimping on motorized marshals? If so, is this his call? What are the rules governing this in USAC racing?
Apr 29, 2013 at 11:20 PM
Adam, curious about your comment about irresponsible race organization. Mike Norton has been promoting New England Road Races for at least as long as I've been racing here in the region and I haven't heard negative stuff about him in the past.
He might be responsive to a constructive criticism email?
Apr 29, 2013 at 11:41 PM
nyvelocity is blowing up right now over this
This is what appears to be a response from Mike:
I'm wondering how the guys that raced this weekend feel about this comment.
This is what appears to be a response from Mike:
"168 riders in the 3/4 field on narrow roads." Please get your information correct before you slander me. The group had 139 racers. The roads where good and wide. It is not the size of the pack that makes people crash. Its the riders. You can see in the Youtube that when the car came past it scared someone and that person took out the others. When I had it as a USAC race I had 180 riders on the course without any crashes. Crashes happen with small or large groups. it is almost always the riders. Both crashes in the 3/4 where on straight clean roads. no reason other than riders fault. So please do not blame the promoter.
If you where at this race you would of seen all the support to help out the riders. Blue Knight in front trying to slow cars down, they are all Police Officers. We had 4 Cars with EMT'S to make sure they got to the crash fast. if you think this race makes the big $$$$$$$$$$$ then you should put on a race that goes through 7 towns with all the support that was there.
Everything there cost money all the Neutral support cars are not cheap, The Bonk at the feed zone is paid these people do not come to race for free. They come because I want them there to help the racers. So when it only takes a couple of minutes to get through the registration line. have 10 Porta Johns to help with the rest rooms. and all the police out on the road.
All that with a great views. So there are not many real road races left. If you guys want to stay in NY and race the same circuit week after week then do so. If it wasn't for us trying to give the road racers a good race there would be none to race at. this is a 64.5 mile road race without doing a circuit.
I put on a safer race than Most USAC races.
I'm wondering how the guys that raced this weekend feel about this comment.
Apr 29, 2013 at 11:48 PM
The road in the crash video doesn't look bad. I tend to agree with the statement "the riders make the race" safe or dangerous - within limits.
The fundamental issue is the demographics of the riders and they skills they bring.
Cat 4's used to be teenagers, now they're 40+ guys (like me) who just recently started racing - with way more to lose in a crash and way less suplesse when we do touch elbows or pavement.
Organized bike racing (and I don't mean just promoters) needs to find a way to get codgers like me up the learning curve safely.
Apr 29, 2013 at 11:51 PM
The "10 porta-potties" comment reminds me...
For those of you doing the Jersey crit race weekend. Expect no more than 2 porta-potties at any given venue. Also no neutral support except at Somerville. Wheels in/Wheels out. And for you guys doing the big RR (Perlberg/Ragot/JP) when/if you bring extra wheels, be sure to put your teammates names/numbers on them as well, because the guys from the truck will not give wheels to your teammates just because they have "Kissena" on them. Also, if your wheels are buried in the truck, you will not get someone else's wheel, they will look for your wheel. So if you flat, you are out, and you are just getting a wheel so you can ride home.
Apr 30, 2013 at 12:01 AM
Just received from the promoter. While I feel his pain, I'm not very impressed by the way he's handling it - I'd trust him more if he'd be a bit more businesslike in tone.From: <mikeanorton@msn.com>Subject: Quabbin road race.Date: April 29, 2013 7:35:16 PM EDTTo: <ryan@fireflyinc.com>FROM: Quabbin Reservoir Classic Road Race
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This is why we lose road races. see message below. I will be lucky now to have a race when this jerk writing to the State. He did not even have the know how to use his name. Sorry I have to send this out.
Re: Quabbin Road Race
To see messages related to this one, group messages by conversation.
grazantini@yahoo.com (grazantini@yahoo.com)Add to contacts 6:42 PM
To: <mikeanorton@msn.com>
Cc: mass.parks@state.ma.us, clif.read@state.ma.us
From: grazantini@yahoo.com
Sent: Mon 4/29/13 6:42 PM
To: <mikeanorton@msn.com> (mikeanorton@msn.com)
Cc: mass.parks@state.ma.us (mass.parks@state.ma.us); clif.read@state.ma.us (clif.read@state.ma.us)
Parts of this message have been blocked for your safety.
Show content|I trust grazantini@yahoo.com. Always show content.
While the circuit provides a challenging bicycle racing course, the running of the race is downright dangerous bordering on reckless. To have category 4 riders in a field of 150 racers, on a road where they have a single lane with on-coming traffic inches from them is completely irresponsible. The fact that there was no rolling enclosure, as cars passed the field not only traveling in the opposite direction, but also in the same direction as the field, only compounds the danger. The video below shows the danger of the large size field on narrow roads, keep in mind this is after approx. 1/3 of the racers have been dropped. Hopefully these issues can be resolved for future editions.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDcc0Q3zTqg&feature=youtu.be
-Category 3 Racer
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This message was sent as a service to promoters
of BikeReg.com. Please notify tech@BikeReg.com
with any abuse of the service. Thank You.
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Apr 30, 2013 at 12:19 AM
that's unfortunate. i'm not familiar with how cycling events work, but it seems they require all manner of permits. reporting dissatisfaction with the race to the state regulator without first approaching the organizer or the organizer's governing body seems like a poor choice. a great way to stop permits from issuing. a nonexistent race is a safe race, i suppose. but then there's no race. sigh.
Apr 30, 2013 at 12:28 AM
In spring 2000 near mountain race, there were 194 riders in the 3 4 Jr. Race. No crashes and on coming traffic.
Apr 30, 2013 at 01:07 AM
Race promoter's life... careful...careful.... BOOM
Apr 30, 2013 at 01:43 AM
Part of me wants to tell the complaining racer that the circumstances were his to know going in and if he thought it was irresponsible, he should not have registered. And if registered, should not have started. And if he doesn't have the skills, he should get them before venturing out.
Part of me wants to tell Norton that a little more transparency into the way races are run would go a long way in helping racers understand what goes in to keeping them safe. I really hate it when people tell me to trust them when they make no effort to give me a reason other than without them I'd have nothing.
Apr 30, 2013 at 05:10 AM
I felt like the field was a little large, but you can't blame the race promoter for how people race. I agree with him that you can see someone trying to ride up the double yellow and trying to squeeze in when the car approaches and then the crash happens.
As for his tact with the email to the riders in the long run definitely not the best way to handle race pr. I bet he's taking everything very personal right now and worried that the race wont go on next year and reacting to those feelings.
Apr 30, 2013 at 02:05 PM
@Marc- the reason I say the race was poorly organised for our field is based on the following:
-Field size was WAY too big for those roads. There was no shoulder and traffic oncoming in the other lane. Saying "I once had a field of 180 with no crashes" is like saying "I once knew a person who smoked their whole life and never got cancer". Total bullshit and not representative of the broader facts and stats.
-Field size limits were no announced before the race (he later said it was 200). If I knew the field limit was 200 I would definitely have reconsidered my sign up. I looked for this info but could not find it.
-Cat 3 and Cat4 are almost invariably the largest fields at any race. Why combine?
-Juniors in the race. Total BS. I have had the unfortunate experience of riding with them numerous times and they are just so dangerous. Lack of experience. Total juvenile nerves of 'gonna get dropped, gonna get dropped...' and are a total liability on any descent, spinning out at 145 rpm as they are undergeared by the rules. I have lots to say about juniors but will stop there.
Yes, riders crash, not races. But, it is all about odds. This race totally staked the odds in favour of the many crashes you see here. The race should stack the odds the other way, towards safe. If done correctly, then the riders are the ones mostly at fault. This race does not fall into that category.
JP- I think your first paragraph here is way off and takes no account of the facts of this situation. Noone is denying that racing is inherently risky, which we have to accept to participate. This one was WAY above the acceptable threshold for that, which could only be determined after starting and after 20 miles of ludicrously dangerous racing. I have never done this course, I had no experience. I have however done over a hundred other road races, so am no novice. I am sure that there are many courses were a field of 150, competent, cyclists is perfectly safe. This was not one. Also, it is not fair to get people to travel many, many miles and many, many hours and then expect them so say on the line "Actually, this is not safe, judgement call, I am not going to race. I will just accept I lost the fuel and toll costs, the hotel costs and my entry fee." We pay the promoter to take some responsibility for this, which I think he is obliged to consider. "Is my race safe?" In this instance, he never asked himself that question. Plain and simple.mugwump said:Part of me wants to tell the complaining racer that the circumstances were his to know going in and if he thought it was irresponsible, he should not have registered. And if registered, should not have started. And if he doesn't have the skills, he should get them before venturing out.Part of me wants to tell Norton that a little more transparency into the way races are run would go a long way in helping racers understand what goes in to keeping them safe. I really hate it when people tell me to trust them when they make no effort to give me a reason other than without them I'd have nothing.
Second paragraph, spot on.
Dude who sent the email was a dick. He sent it to the MA State Park Authority. Total shit move. The organiser had a right to defend himself and explain before that. Not cool. Also, there was a rolling enclosure (pace vehicle-we had a tricycle by the way, with a big US flag on it, and SRAM neutral behind). They have no power to stop traffic moving past.