Kissena Forum Archive

Grant's Tomb Criterium

1161 comments · 11331 views
Nice video!  That was a really well organized two man show there at the end.
Ouch


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Big Diesel V in the house!
Found: Size "L" old school Kissena wind jacket.  Make looks to be something called "Respira"
My guess is it made its way into my car at Grant's Tomb
Could be mine. Karl was supposed to give it to the judges table and Hubbard was supposed to pick it up.
Blue sleeves? Slight tear in a seam at the top of one shoulder?
dstokes said:
Could be mine. Karl was supposed to give it to the judges table and Hubbard was supposed to pick it up.
Blue sleeves? Slight tear in a seam at the top of one shoulder?
That's the one.  Prospect on Sunday?
Hmmm... Maybe someone upgraded to a new school L vest at said event? 
(my new school L Kissena vest is AWOL)
@John:  I've had good luck emailing the promoter. Even got back more than I asked from after a 'cross race last year.

If it's not to early to be posting stuff in the Battenkill thread, then it's definitely not to early to mention this hot update about the Grant's Tomb course.

Remember the craptacular pavement sections? Well, they are no more. Totally re-done, buttery smooth. Which is good and bad. Good because, well, good pavement is always good. Bad because it effectively takes away my secret racing lines, privy to only KCC members in good standing (i.e. the folks who show up to pre-ride the course with me as I break it down).

If it's not to early to be posting stuff in the Battenkill thread, then it's definitely not to early to mention this hot update about the Grant's Tomb course.

Remember the craptacular pavement sections? Well, they are no more. Totally re-done, buttery smooth. Which is good and bad. Good because, well, good pavement is always good. Bad because it effectively takes away my secret racing lines, privy to only KCC members in good standing (i.e. the folks who show up to pre-ride the course with me as I break it down).
@Marc you mean that brutal lefthand into the bottom of a steep hill with an ill-fitting metal plate is no more?
checked it out on my ride home today.  still three bits of metal in the turn, but they don't seem as bad as last year.


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Ok folks, since there is insufficient trash talk on the subject (Hotlist better up his game beyond one-liners) I added a BADGE - you hear me?!?  Stinkin' Badges!

One owner thus far... you'll know him by his Sasquatchian legs...

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Just for nostalgia, here's former KCC Neil Bezdek winning the 3/4 in 2009...

http://cyclingreporter.com/2010/03/09/grants-tomb-criterium-preview/

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Also highly encourage first timers (like myself) to go through this entire thread for nuggets of wisdom.  Lots of good stuff in there from WDC, JP, Marc, Coach/Champ Eric Ragot, John M., etc.
Just registered for the W4 field. It's at noon and I have a CP race in the morning. Would have loved to done the W3/4, but ain't nobody got time for that! So... yay! and ouch!
SUFFERING...

http://www.oneimagingphotography.com/Cycling/Grants-Tomb-31012/Cat-4/21877238_SSgZpG#!i=1744344030&k=Ntvcz3g

...THEN WINNING

http://www.oneimagingphotography.com/Cycling/Grants-Tomb-31012/Cat-4/21877238_SSgZpG#!i=1744363155&k=dSNG9dX

If you haven't done this race you really should.  I did it once.  It was fun.
SUFFERING...

http://www.oneimagingphotography.com/Cycling/Grants-Tomb-31012/Cat-4/21877238_SSgZpG#!i=1744344030&k=Ntvcz3g What a rag tag bunch of misfits. We look so much sharper now. We had some good eats after that race. A proper sit down breakfast in our kits and all.
Who is that sitting up after leading out Neil?
Pretty sure it's Clint Eastwood, er, Keith.
Definitely Keith, who did the lead out.
Definitely KEITH I was already out of the race, doubled over coughing and freezing to the bone. But yeah, I was there and congratulating him at the end. Years earlier I led jared out for the win.

For years, I've gone into GT with good legs.  Yes, in some ways, it seems crazy that a March criterium is raced as hard as GT is, but that's the deal.  GT draws a good field and teams race it hard.  The date, BTW, is set by the collegiate racing calendar.

And while I know the race is pretty much about teams throwing different guys off the front, and seeing when the field gives up or the right combination coalesces, I haven't guessed right thusfar and my efforts to instigate haven't worked out yet.  Sitting back and waiting to cross a gap is even more difficult to pull off--I've only seen Scott Zwisanski pull it off, and he's a pro and multi-time podium finisher at TT nationals.

For years, we had few people racing at the II level in March, so there's been little reason to speak up.  But if people are going off the Branchbrook for "fitness" or "training" reasons, I'd love it if they'd consider racing here instead.

Calling on more experiences Kissenas for GT advice. I just found out (realized?) today that GT is part of the "CRCA Grant's Tomb Women's 3/4 Omnium Championship" with points awarded in that morning's W3/4 CP race and GT's W3/4 field. I already registered for GT's W4 field, but I'm now considering the intelligence of changing to the W3/4 field or racing both. Some thoughts...

* GT's W3/4 starts at 8:45am and the CP race (probably) ends at 7:45am. Enough time for travel and recovery?
* GT's W4 is a shortened course and doesn't start until noon, so CP + GT W4 is totally doable.
* Signing up for a second field at GT has a $20 discount, so at least that's good.
* From the sound of things on the forum, GT is a team crit... since I'm the only lady KCC racing that day, am I just foolish for going for the Omnium when I could skip the W3/4 and do the W4 race with fresh legs?

Erika,

Wow...can't believe that the CRCA is running two races on the same day for the same series. That just doesn't make much sense to me.

The answer to your conundrum lies within the context of your goals.

If you are going for a top placing in an omnium some things to consider for overall success.
  • Key is going to be good placings and the ability to attend all or most events. Even if some sledge hammer wins everytime she shows up, if she only shows up 3 or 4 times, and you are there all 8 and placing top 5-ish every time, you will generally win out. That said...
  • Be sure you know the specific rules of your series regarding points and missed races etc. Some series allow you to drop your lowest score or only count 6 races towards the scores, while there may be 8 races total in the series.
  • Be sure to stick around for results and protest periods. They will screw up your results...they always screw up the results. Get things right before you go home. Because good luck trying to get anything changed via email a day or two later.

Now which category at Grant's Tomb? That's a tough call. Women's racing is, unfortunately remarkably inconsistent. As such, it makes it difficult to recommend doing this race over that race because this or that is likely to happen. I will say, that it would not surprise me to see a HUGE range of women in the Cat 4 field. You would be on the one end of the spectrum, strong and comfortable riding in a pack, while at the other end, you'll have weak riders way off the back, strong riders who don't know how to ride in a pack way off to the side but keeping up, and who knows what else.

Whichever race you choose, you'll have to evaluate the dynamics of the field, the course and race accordingly.

If you are in a sea of inexperienced and wonky racers in a cat 4 field, you might be better off making your move off the front early, draw out the stronger riders and cooperate for a little TTT action until the last few laps.

If you are in the 3/4s and find yourself, "middle of the pack" in terms of fitness and skills, then you have to look for the strong riders and teams and play off their moves. I'll be on course all day, shouting from the sidelines, so if you hear me say something like, "You have to move up!" or "You have to bridge up to that group NOW" then you gotta move.

Grant's Tomb is an honest to goodness real deal crit and like a very technical cross race, it requires explosive power, bike handling skills, the ability to accelerate quickly out of corners. If you are racing the course correctly, you may get away with only having to do 2 VO2+ max intervals per lap, if not you may find yourself suffering through 4 or more lung/leg busting max efforts EVERY LAP. Fortunately, unlike most cross races, there ARE places to draft and recover. I'll go over those spots during our course run-through on the weekend of March 1st/2nd.

This is to say that you or  anyone else considering doing more than one race including a Grant's Tomb race in a single day, may find yourself living in the pain/exhaustion cave. Just because it's physically possible, timing-wise to pin on race numbers for more than one event in a given day, doesn't mean you should.

Or shouldn't? If you just want to get in a really hard day and you don't particularly care about the real possibility that one or more of the Grant's Tomb races you may DNF, then go for it. But if you think that one race is going to be a warm-up, while the next, is the one you HULK SMASH, then I would reconsider your options for the day.

To answer your question more specifically about doing CP then GT, yes, you'll have plenty of time to ride from the finish of CP to the start of GT. It will take you around 15 minutes exit the park at 110th at the base of Harlem Hill, ride west a few blocks then turn right on Morningside.

Again, the women's events might be different. It may be possible to use the Cat 4 as a warm-up for the 3/4 "main event." It just depends.

I guess what I would say, is that if your goal is placing well overall in the omnium, then focus on the race that matters for the omnium points. Remember when you mentioned having been forced off the bike for almost a week because of work travel and when you came back to it, you were fresh and killing it harder than when you went out day after day after day after day of hard training rides with no proper rest?

That said, whichever race you do, if you are still feeling like you need more miles, then it's easy enough to head on over the GWB for a quick river road ride.

That clanging sound was @Marc dropping an imperial ton of wisdom.  I had to bust out a "Mentor" badge for that.
Jules said:
That clanging sound was @Marc dropping an imperial ton of wisdom.  I had to bust out a "Mentor" badge for that.
(but you gotta check out the icon to get my "Imperial" joke... hint, hint)
Wisdom you have!

Wow, indeed. Questionable scheduling, but apparently Grant's isn't part of the W3/4 dev series. Since Grant's was moved to March 8th, it conflicts with the first CRCA club race and the beginning of the women's dev series. Maybe that's why they concocted this single day omnium for the women?

Getting dropped in the 3/4 field at Grant's wont hurn me in the dev series. It's not really a series anyway, they're all scratch races that I'm doing for fun, convenience and (hopefully) upgrade points. Same with Grant's, although I'm realistic about my crit skills and doing Grant's more for the experience. Getting a DNF at Grant's won't necessarily put me completely out of contention for the omnium since points are awarded 10 deep in both races (with a tie going to the woman who placed higher at Grant's). Since I'll be racing CP and GT on the same day anyway, I figured I might as well be in a field that might pay.

That all being said, I'm now more inclined than ever to sign up for the 3 races... I can always just NOT race the W4 field at Grant's if I'm completely obliterated.
@mugwump, I'd be happy to jump into the 2/3 race if you think I'd be of use (haven't had a lot of time on the bike). I was planning on riding the Masters or the 3/4 but I can ditch that no problem. 

Ragot, Perlberg, Vlad, I get the sense you guys just plain don't enjoy riding GT. I respect that, but it makes me think of the tattoo on Stan Warinka's forearm. “Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.”
(joke stolen from twitter)
My number one goal of the season is to answer every question @JohnMalcolmson asks with "Here's your knife" in the hopes he answers "That's not a knoif."

(thank you, I'll be here all week)