Kissena Forum Archive

Grant's Tomb Criterium

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If I race Grants, I'm racing one race at Grants all out and that's it.

Cross posted:

A quick note/addendum regarding the Grant's Tomb Clinic on March 2. It seems there is now an AVD race in CP and so in efforts to accommodate anyone who wants to both race and get "clinic-ed" on Grant's Tomb, I'll be doing two "shows" back to back/overlapping as necessary. It's just a short 10 minute or so ride north of CP to get to the Grant's Tomb clinic. Just give me some notice if this applies to you, so I'm not standing around in the cold waiting for no-one.
@Marc - First session still on for 7:30?

Reading is fundamental.
Big thanks to @Marc for showing us the ropes up at the Tomb this morning. Cold temps aside, conditions were pretty ideal for hot laps and abbreviated pow-wows. Here's to hoping for something similar on Saturday; my heart rate jumps every time I think about next weekend.

@Yang, this history lesson is for you.
Marc, save some hotlaps for me!  I wasn't able to make this event but your advice did assist last year.  I am very excited for Grant's.  First race of the season!  I just redid all my cables.  It's like a new bike!
Agreed, thanks Marc for the reconnaissance.  Very glad I wore that extra baselayer!

@Kayt (& Erika):

image

Great to be able to ride with so many Kissenas this weekend. Looking forward to watching all of you race GT next weekend. I'll be around for all of your races to help however I can.
Race schedule and details here:
http://www.crca.net/racing/open/grants-tomb-criterium/

Map w/field specific details:
http://www.crca.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/Grants-Tomb-Map.jpg

If you want to check out the competition:
https://www.bikereg.com/net/Confirmed/22497

Road-Results.com predictions:
http://www.road-results.com/?n=racers&sn=pred
Marc, I wish I could have made your training ride. This will be my first time racing GT and yes I am one of those guys that suck at crits. Not to over complicate my thoughts this week and fixate too much on this race.

Would you have mini cheat sheet of what you covered on Sunday?

Thank you,
M

Hey Mark, I don't have a mini cheat sheet, but let me type up a few things here that should be helpful. You are racing the first race of the day at 8am. I'll be there no later than 7:30 and will happily ride with you through the course during your warm-up. If you want, I can be there earlier too. Just let me know.

The following things you may have heard before about good racing practices in general, but when it comes to a fairly technical crit like Grant's Tomb, WE MEAN IT.
  • WARM-UP. That means you are dressed and riding well before your race time. This means, you've done a few leg/lung searing efforts of some length, not less than 60 seconds. You must be ready to punch the afterburners from the very first lap. If you start with cold/closed legs. You will not only suffer during the first real accelerations, but you will not be able to recover quick enough to be ready for the next acceleration out of the next turn.
  • PRE-RIDE THE COURSE. You are the first race of the day, so how much time you get on course is almost entirely up to you. They recently repaved all of the nasty pavement from the course but there is a nice manhole and grate awaiting for you on turn 3. You need to know if you can ride on the metal before the race starts. Or if it needs to be avoided altogether.
  • RACE AT THE FRONT. Because of the multiple hard turns on this course, the further back you are in the field, the more you will be forced to slow down for corners, and the harder you will have to accelerate out of the corner to get back up to speed. That's a serious interval you just gave yourself. Meanwhile the guys at the front, just keep it steady and are having a MUCH EASIER time on the course than you are. Just think of it this way, on the course there are 3 turns that could either be easy breezy, or VO2 intervals. The home stretch with it's Right-cross headwind and 2% incline is always going to be an "interval." So that's 4 intervals PER LAP. How many intervals do you have in you?
  • RACE THE FASTEST LINE, not just the shortest. There are a couple of corners which will always get jammed up past the first 10 guys who make it through cleanly and quickly, everyone else will have to stop pedaling, break, or both. So consider taking the longer line around a given corner in order to keep your momentum going.
  • EAT SOME WIND. If you are in a bad spot of the pack (i.e. if you can't count the number of riders in front of you, you are too far back), then consider eating wind on the home stretch where the road is wide, the riders always hug the inside left side, to get up to the front of the field. You may have to be in the wind all the way up the right side before the field comes back to you as they set up for the first left hand turn. But if it gets you from 40th wheel to 15th it's totally worth it.
  • IF YOU'RE NOT MOVING FORWARD, YOU'RE MOVING BACKWARDS. Say the pace lets a bit, and you are feeling good and comfortable. This is not your chance to "rest." It's your chance to continue to push forward in the field.
  • TALK WITH YOUR TEAMMATES. The cat 4 field has 5 KCC racers. Touch base with each other, start talking about a plan. You don't have to race as a team, but if you want to race your own race, you should let your teammates know. Now is not too early to start coming up with some general plans over the forum. I'll be happy to herd all of you guys up before your race to help come up with a general plan of attack on Saturday.
  • PRACTICE YOUR SPRINT/LEADOUT. Most folks go way way too early. The home-stretch has a little stair-step "climb" in it. Get out there and see how long YOU can go before you fade. Successful sprinting is much more about positioning and timing than it is max watts. Of course, you could be like our own John Malcolmson who routinely makes me a liar by winning sprints by starting them like 3 laps early. But he's a special case. I'm guessing on this course, you have a good 50-75 yards of final sprint mad go-time before you are done.
  • BRING DRY CLOTHES to change into after your race. If you are Brooklyn person riding home after your race, or even if you just want to hang out during the day watching your teammates race (we've got riders in most every race), you will want to do it in dry clothes.
  • LEG SPEED is your friend in a crit. Getting that gap, moving up quickly are all possible if you can spin a bit. If you aren't already, some of your weekly workouts should include leg-speed drills that have you spinning 100+ RPM.
  • COUNTER STEERING. It's a bit much to describe in this format, but going fast around corners sometimes requires leaning the bike over fairly dramatically. Just make sure your inside foot is on the top of the pedal stroke, body is upright and weight pressed on the outside pedal which will be in the down position.
All those new to GT: What Marc said, particularly: 
• Get comfortable hammering those corners as fast as you can, race speed will be even faster. Make sure you can pedal through all corners. If you're nervous cornering, you'll end up with nervous/inexperienced riders at the back. Once there you'll be expending way too much energy — the accelerations will be relentless and you'll end up watching the race, not participating in the race.
• Race at the front. Never let yourself get out of the front third. 
• Finish at the front, practice how long you can sprint, practice how long you can lead out at least three times. Know that you won't have that same snap after 45 minutes.


Wow!! Thanks Marc and John. Really great insights and tips to approaching this race. I'd like and try and make it there by 7:15 and give myself plenty of time to warm up and recon the course with you. These early season races I am really focusing on my position in the group and forcing myself out of my comfort zone to stick my neck up in the front. Something I did not really execute that well last year. And for that reason I have never been all that good a crits. I know these races really help me become a much stronger road racer (i.e. bike handling, shorter recovery, sprinting, power, etc.) I have done a lot of 15-30s intervals at PP with short recovery times along with a big dosing of HRPM drills and strength training this off-season. The fluctuation of speeds are usually a killer in these types of races. Let's roll the dice and see what happens.

If I am in the front I will make every effort to help my teammates by creating havoc in the pack. Although I would like to attack at an opportune time and see if I can make it stick. Anyway, I leave it up to you and the guys who I am racing with to come up with a strategy to have the best chance at winning this race and I would be more than happy to contribute to that success. 


I'm in this one for fitness. I'll try to help whoever thinks they have a chance of getting on the podium. 
KCC Cat 4 leader should be Brendan.  I will be doing everything in my power to help him to the podium, though realistically I will probably be hanging on for dear life.  If I somehow have enough fitness, my goal is to stay near the front and keep things in order for Brendan as much and as long as possible.  I will not (can not) initiate any attacks so that's all you, @Inaba.

Experienced vets - Is this race usually a field sprint or do breaks actually stick in the lower categories?
OK, Brendan's our man. Dave and Wes, just something to think about, doesn't mean we have to do any of this. But I am always amazed whenever I race with the Master's group how just 2 or 3 guys from the same team can dictate the tempo and control the race. They way they do it is by taking the offensive and always keeping the other riders on their heels. I mean chasing down breaks is no picnic, but they seem to always be the ones attacking and not chasing. Sure it's a lot of effort no matter how you slice it. But i think it's easier to be the oppressor and not the oppressed.
Hell, I'll try anything, but my fitness really isn't that high.  I'll follow your lead and see if I can make anything happen as well.

@Rigby what are your thoughts?

To the cat 4s: Good to have an "A" plan with multiple options. But that doesn't mean you won't have an opportunity to win the whole thing yourself.

Grant's Tomb is fairly unpredictable in terms of group sprint v breakaway. In theory, on this course a breakaway is possible and many have been successful. There is no doubt that a well-oiled machine of 5 or 6 can certainly go as fast around the course as the field.

It would be nice if we always had a solid group of Kissena in the hunt. whether that means near the front, or charging off the front in a breakaway group. Look for other teams. It's early, but do you know of other teams who would like a breakaway to succeed? Then think about bridging up to a group that has some nice representation from other teams in it.

With 10 or so laps to go, you might have one last opportunity to get a breakaway going, but pretty much from then on, it's going to be about getting and keeping good position so that you are in position to lead out your designated sprinter for the day. The field is going to get strung out as the lap counter winds down. So it may take you a good 5 laps to get to the front-ish of the field. And from then on, it's about sticking close to each other and concentrating on starting a good leadout. It depends on how many guys you have good at the end. But honestly, it would be nice if you had two strong guys on first and second wheel going into the banked left handed sweeper. The first guy keeps the pace high and ensures that you don't get a competing leadout train on the right side of the road. Or if you want and do have two guys at the front with your sprinter not too far behind, it's actually a faster exit from the banked turn if you take it wide to the right while the field is cranking their momentum down to hang on the left curb. Because if you've got two guys plus your winner, then you should have enough horsepower to drop him off with 50 meters to go.

One thing I forgot to mention both here and on clinic day is:

  • GO FOR PRIMES! They usually have a couple and while the extra cash and/or swag is also nice, it's a good opportunity to test out the legs in an all-out effort. You're probably not sure "how long" you can go, but a mid-race prime offers the perfect opportunity to find out.

Also, think about, even if you aren't going for the prime, attacking the field IMMEDIATELY after the prime is won. The field will be a little extra torqued from the mid-race sprint effort, and will be more likely to NOT give chase right away.

A word or two about the best way to counter-attack a move. First, DON'T wait until a breakaway is literally absorbed. You want to surprise the field and catch them on their heels. And the best way to do that is to attack the field as the break is coming back. You will quickly "bridge" and race straight past. The field will be tired from bringing back the chase and want a second or two of rest and recovery. But you won't give it to them.

Say Wes is in a move that stayed out a solid 5 laps, but it's coming back on the homestretch. The field will likely catch just before the start finish, but Yang can smell the lactic acid burning from his teammates' breakaway group. He's go the legs and while the field is all eyes/all minds on the group ahead, Yang hammers away from say 5th or 6th wheel where he was previously riding herd and letting everyone else do the chasing work. Gets up to the break in literally 3 seconds or less and continues on his own opening up a nice 12 second gap for which a few other teams may be able to send dudes into it, but only after they've caught the original break. Voila, the field is left chasing another KCC racer.

To pile onto Mark's thought a few posts up, this race is going to hurt. It will hurt if you are launching attacks, it will hurt if you are clinging for dear life at the back. Might as well make your hurt count for something, no?


@marc - I'll be your soigneur (minus massages) at your race if you can do a quick run through of the course at 7am on saturday.
No problem. I'll be there at 7!
I'll be there at 7 as well. Also if you guys want I can talk with my buddies from RBNY. They have pretty big squad going in the 4's. Let me know and I'll put the word out that we can work together.
I'm signed up for the 4s. I'll ride for Brendan if it comes to a sprint, either as a leadout man or a sweeper. IF, that is, I can keep my position near the front. My fitness base is pretty decent for this time of year, but I don't have a ton of anaerobic work under my belt.

I also plan to be opportunistic about breaks. I will not be actively blocking on the front of the peloton (it's wasteful, minimally effective, and a bit negative for my taste), but if we have a man in the break, I'll try to sit second to fourth wheel as a gatekeeper to a concerted chase. I will also be looking to cover any bridge attempts so that no bridge gets across without a Kissena in tow.

Mostly though, it'll just be hanging on for dear life. That's Grant's.
Sweet, we've got six guys in the 4s now.

I'll be there at 7a as well.

The nice thing about GT is that it is so early in the season that most folks (none?) have a significant amount of anaerobic work in. So it's mostly even-steven on that front.

Unfortunately, this doesn't apply to the P123 field as much...sigh.
Sorry for my lack of response started a new job on Monday. I am honored to be named category 4 leader. I hope I can deliver for you guys. My goal is to maintain position and avoid eating wind. I also want to avoid drifting far back enough that a crash might separate me from the front (happened to me last year and went deep into the red chasing the people who were in front of the crash). I think Marc's advice above is better than any tactics I could dream up. I will be there early enough to attend prerides and we can talk more then.

LET'S DO THIS!

Maybe Owens will race?

  • $7,000 in prizes across 10 fields including an equal prize money $1,000 Elite Women's field

  • The opportunity to race multiple fields - just $15 to register for second (or third!) fields

  • Show your race number at the Rapha Cycle Club on race day and receive a FREE drip coffee or beer


P.S. I can't swear to this, but for those worried about late car towing off the course and races being delayed, I feel like since the CRCA took over this race entirely (as opposed to being a Columbia U joint), that hasn't so much been a problem.


For those who want to help Brendan stay out of the wind, if it blows the way it usually does up there, key is going to be riding shotgun (on his right side) on the finishing stretch. But we'll all lick a finger and stick it in the air and figure out specifics say, 7:15 on Saturday morning.
It's looking to be at least above freezing by the time race begins at 8am and maybe closer to 40.  No ice and no precipitation, nice.

http://www.weather.com/weather/5-day/New+York+NY+10001:4:US


Last chance to register for Grant's Tomb. Less than 3 hours. There are all sorts of "legitimate" reasons to talk yourself out of this NYC classic event. Don't give in to weakness, anger and the darkside. Let me try one more time to change your mind.
  • In less time than it takes you get to the Jersey Side of the GWB, you have exactly one two opportunities per year to race on the actual city streets of NYC. This is your first one. You'll never forget your first time.
  • You have a teammate who can use your help. Seems fair to me that if you want/expect help from others later in the season, you rally to their side now.
  • Lessons learned on positioning, bike handling, energy management and tactics which are magnified in an intense criterium will help your road racing.
  • You want to do better at later season crits. Do more crits, do more better.
  • You want to do better at cyclocross. Very similar disciplines.
  • You care about seeing your name recorded in the results even if you don't place in the top 10. #Parkracinggetwiththeprogramalready
  • You love bagels. I can't technically say they're the best bagels in NYC, only because I haven't eaten at every bagel place in NYC, but there is often a line out the door at the decidedly unassuming Absolute Bagels on 108th/Broadway. They don't sell someone elses $15 donut holes. They sell bagels they make exactly 2 feet away from where you pay for them. And they cost $1. And they are delicious.
"In less time than it takes you get to the Jersey Side of the GWB, you have exactly one opportunity per year to race on the actual city streets of NYC"

I hate to disagree @Marc but - Harlem Skyscraper is another opportunity (not that I will race it either).
"In less time than it takes you get to the Jersey Side of the GWB, you have exactly one opportunity per year to race on the actual city streets of NYC"

I hate to disagree @Marc but - Harlem Skyscraper is another opportunity (not that I will race it either).
Doh! True!!! Well, at least the bagels are undeniably delish.