Kissena Forum Archive

Apr 08, 2024 at 08:00 PM

Feel bad for the "kid"

Andrew “AJ” August The now-youngest rider of Paris-Roubaix came up short of an official time by just one minute and 31 seconds after 260km of racing.

Apr 08, 2024 at 08:12 PM

Bored by this Roubaix.

I couldn't believe the field gave up about 5km into MVDP's attack. That first group had something like three teams with two riders apiece and only Groupama decided to ride.

The Arenberg chicane wasn't nearly as kludgy as I was expecting.

Matt Budofsky

Apr 08, 2024 at 09:43 PM

Most unexpected result from the race was MVdP's hands looking completely unscathed while everyone else's generally look blistered and rough

Apr 08, 2024 at 10:01 PM

Matt Budofsky said:

Most unexpected result from the race was MVdP's hands looking completely unscathed while everyone else's generally look blistered and rough

Maybe it's because he didn't wear gloves.

I found myself wondering if the riders with blisters had pictures of their hands taken so they could figure out a new hand protection strategy for those parts next year.

David Yang

Apr 08, 2024 at 10:12 PM

They don't have MVdD's, but here is a power analysis of Lawrence Pithie's Strava numbers who finished 7th.

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-training/power-analysis-mathieu-van-der-poel-paris-roubaix/

Here is Jasper the Friendly Jock's post race comment on the tactics:

After the race, Jasper Philipsen said that his team planned to blow the race apart before they reached the Trouee de Arenberg. The team’s goal was to arrive at the pre-forest chicane with less than a full peloton, and that’s exactly what they did.

On one of the few sections of the route that turned southeast, a cross-headwind helped Alpecin-Deceuninck rip the field apart with more than 150 km to go. For many riders, this was their peak 5-minute power of the entire race. Jordi Meeus averaged more than 500w, while the lighter figure of Pithie pushed nearly 440w just to maintain his position in the lead group.

These are silly numbers.

Apr 08, 2024 at 11:44 PM

mugwump said:

Bored by this Roubaix.

I couldn't believe the field gave up about 5km into MVDP's attack. That first group had something like three teams with two riders apiece and only Groupama decided to ride.

The Arenberg chicane wasn't nearly as kludgy as I was expecting.

I mean Alpecin marked every move , Groupama didn’t really ride smart , they couldnt seem to figure who was protected ,Kung or pithie

also , give up seems harsh , they didn’t seem to have the strength , polit and Kung had already featured in a breakaway

Apr 09, 2024 at 12:47 AM

Mark Taylor said:

also , give up seems harsh , they didn’t seem to have the strength , polit and Kung had already featured in a breakaway

I don't know about that. MVDP had like 30 seconds on a stretch of cobbles. The chase rode hard over that same sector, and when the got to smooth pavement, everyone sat up. you could see both Visma guys just sitting at the back. No one other than Pedersen was even trying to roll.

Apr 09, 2024 at 12:09 PM

The " sit up " happen way after that ,

The race was defined by full strength Visma & Trek team absense .

BTW

Why didn't you bridge up to the break of 9 in the park ?

Apr 09, 2024 at 02:36 PM

I kinda agree with Mark here... everyone was tired.

More importantly any kinda of real effort from the chase would have brought Jasper Philipsen with them, so then it's about how can they regain some energy and attack from the chase to bridge up to MVdP or some other variation that doesn't bring Philipsen or require some great effort.

The goal is not "beat MVdP" the goal is to win the race.

We saw some really great dynamics on the women's race, when half the FDJ team came back, allowing Amber Kraak to finish in the lead group, and later when Georgi bridged up even it meant bringing Balsamo with her. Balsamo beat her, I bet Georgi does not care.

Caveats for doping.

Apr 09, 2024 at 09:01 PM

Mark Taylor said:

The " sit up " happen way after that ,
The race was defined by full strength Visma & Trek team absense .

BTW
Why didn't you bridge up to the break of 9 in the park ?

It's not about bridging up at that moment in the Roubaix situation. It's about reducing the gap first. And then, when the gap is bridgeable, making the move.

There were multiple teams with two riders in the chase. As such, one rider from each team should have gone to the front when everyone was hurting to just keep things rolling--sacrificing the weaker rider for the stronger. Considering they all had race radios and their directors were watching the race on TV, they all knew what the gap was and they knew that smooth tarmac was where they could use the numbers to reduce the gap.

The chase had been hard over the pave sector. And then they sat up once they hit the smooth road. Tactically, that's backward. The group can ride together more effectively on smooth pavement, and even when tired, should be able to ride much faster than a solo rider. And with something like 15 guys, even if they are tired, if each takes a pull at the pace of MVDP, each rider is collectively doing 1/15th the work of MVDP. Each rider could theoretically ride faster than MVDP for 15 seconds at a time and then have 3:30 of sitting in a draft before having to take on the wind again.

Once the gap was over a minute, there was little likelihood of one or two people making the bridge, there would need to be a group of 4-8 riders working together. It seems that even with the pros, unless it's an early move, big groups have trouble getting cooperation from everyone.

Now, as for winning the race, if they didn't catch MVDP, they weren't going to win. There needed to be more cooperation initially. My guess is they were more afraid of helping Pedersen, who was the strongest of the rest (and I think he would have won a small-group sprint for the win against any combination of those riders). Yes, Philipsen was strong enough to follow all the moves, but that was for everyone--and bringing him up as a deterrent is is kind of suggesting that the group was knowingly racing for third place. Sitting around, they were going to get nothing--and might even lose as other riders might come up to them.

As for my own race on Sunday, I was one out of 80 riders, with zero teammates, and at the back when the winning move went--and there were several teams with multiple riders that did nothing. Kind of different than being in the first chase of 15 late in a monument. But, I've been at the front in many races after a threatening move went. In those situations, I often roll to the front when there's disorganization just to keep a tempo going to minimize the gap. And I often do it even when I don't have teammates. I do it because I believe it will somewhat limit the gap growth early, help convince others to do the same, thus giving me a chance to either counter attack or go with another move when the circumstance is right.

Apr 09, 2024 at 09:48 PM

Philipsen-and bringing him up as a deterrent is is kind of suggesting that the group was knowingly racing for third place.

Not kinda, but 100% -- If the only option I want to explore is to win, then I can not bring Philipsen to MVdP, that's it. So I sit until some other situation develops that allows me the win. If none develops, I am ok with whatever result, specially if 2nd or 3rd seem totally possible and not at risk -- ie. Mads and crew were ok with 3rd.

To say this differently, as tired and beat as he was, I am relatively certain Pederson could have close the gap, fully or even to just a few seconds to MVdP, but the effort to do so means he finishes last in that group. So it's not worth the investment.

I mentioned the women's race because the contrast with Georgi, who I think did not care about just winning but prioritized getting the best result she could, so Georgi was fine bringing Balsamo back, even if Balsamo could outsprint them all. For Georgi it was worth the investment.

Both Georgi and Pederson finished 3rd.

Caveats for doping.

Apr 09, 2024 at 10:02 PM

eloy said:

If the only option I want to explore is to win, then I can not bring Philipsen to MVdP, that's it. So I sit until some other situation develops that allows me the win. If none develops, I am ok with whatever result, specially if 2nd or 3rd seem totally possible and not at risk -- ie. Mads and crew were ok with 3rd.

If the only option they want to explore is to win, once MVDP was a minute up the road, sitting around took victory off the table. At that gap, he could crash once, or even flat twice and still be in the lead. And if winning is the only option worth exploring, then second or third means nothing.

THey needed to bring it close, so that if MVDP had a disaster, they had a chance. Think of Pollitt with Gilbert, Dillier with Sagan. Both Pollitt and Dillier worked with the stronger rider knowing that if they sat, they'd get nothing, and if they rode, the stronger rider could screw up or have a disaster.

Apr 10, 2024 at 12:32 PM

All good points , on paper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyJABh1ilbU

Apr 11, 2024 at 04:50 PM

https://youtu.be/xb2fjZa_L74?si=Uilhuno2MCcc9lvs

Apr 11, 2024 at 05:48 PM

our local OG american pioneer, John Eustice, puts up race commentaries on Facebook for fun. He has one on this Paris-Roubaix. And ex-euro pro Fred Rodriguez, Giro stage winner and podium finisher in monuments, wrote in this:

"What I keep missing in the logic of racing is how other teams are not using one of the most used habits is racing, collaboration.

When you know an individual or team dominates you need to think outside the norm and come up with creative solutions to the problem. And it helps if that solution has multiple groups collaborating.

I’m not seen much of that happening."

Not that he's correct, but he's been there, and is making a similar argument.

David Yang

Apr 12, 2025 at 12:01 AM

Who ya got?

Streaming on Peacock this weekend
Femmes Saturday 840a
Hommes Sunday 505a

David Yang

Apr 12, 2025 at 12:44 AM

I'll go first:

Easily MVDP.

WVA is over, sorry true believers. As a Mets and Knicks fan, I understand.

Pogi, you're in danger girl.

Jules

Apr 12, 2025 at 12:48 AM

WVA is not having the season he wanted; not sure if he's "over" or not.
Pogi is the easy pick, I think he'll win.
I'm going with Ghanna over MVDP.
My money is on the Barry kid for U23

LennartZandbergen

Apr 12, 2025 at 03:42 AM

David Yang said:

I'll go first:

Easily MVDP.

WVA is over, sorry true believers. As a Mets and Knicks fan, I understand.

Pogi, you're in danger girl.

The Mets are SO BACK dude

As for WvA… not yet. He’ll get there though.

It’s Roubaix, it’s always epic, it’s gonna be someone other than the usual suspects. I’m saying Ganna or Philipsen

Apr 12, 2025 at 09:51 AM

Not a race you can say ,easily any rider , MVDP has also been sick , prescribed anti biotic prior to flanders ,
Mads ,Ganna and VDP are my fantasy picks , Tarling could surprise ,
also fascinated to see how 19 year old Matt Brennan does , he’s been the revelation of the season for me .

Pog will probably win😂

Apr 12, 2025 at 10:28 AM

Kopecky or Balsamo for the women
It’s a toss up for the men, I expect Pogi and Wout to be in the mix, I’d be surprised if either wins.
Would to see a win from Wout, Mads , MVdP or almost everyone else but Pogi I think

MaxBucksbaum

Apr 12, 2025 at 02:43 PM

Most likely: MVDP, Pogi
Possible: Mads, Ganna, Wout, Phillipsen
Who I'd like to see win: Wout, Mads

Apr 12, 2025 at 04:43 PM

Women’s race was amazing

BlakeFoster

Apr 12, 2025 at 10:08 PM

Watched the women's while on zwift, was awesome. some really rough crashes, too.

i am going mads for men's. he's been on great form and so close. riding out of his skin right now

GregHoge

Apr 12, 2025 at 11:38 PM

I'm going for Mads or Ganna. Wouldn't mind Pogi just so he doesn't have to do P-R again.

Jules

Apr 13, 2025 at 08:36 PM

Stayed up way too late to watch but it was a hell of a race.

Gotta wonder how mads would have fared without the flat. The way MVDP closed those gaps though…

Apr 14, 2025 at 12:17 PM

Random take away,

1)Second year that MVDP has had a crowd member try and knock him off , Crazy stuff

2) How did they allow the car to come up to Poj when he was clearly low on fuel , and what did he drink( definitely could of used what ever it was Sunday ) as it clearly was a miracle cure

3) At about 80k to go , when MVDP attached on the asphalt ,i saw Poj grimace , not often you see that

4) Blood coming from Poj wrist ,caused by that stupid watch