Kissena Forum Archive

Harlem Skyscraper Classic

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I will have more pics later, but here's one of Ragot:

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Le sigh... my win(our teams win) has been overshadowed by that ever persistent chatter that i am nothing more than a no good SAND BAGGER<sarcasm!!!>

Anyways race report. 

There was a bad crash in one of the first laps, which in retrospect i came pretty close to getting caught up in. After that we were neutralized for a good 10 minutes. That was rough because each time passing around I kept thinking "... ok i don't want to get caught off guard, be ready on this lap to gun it" . When they finally started up the race again it felt really fast.  I did my best to stay near the front. In crits, when a designated lead out isn't arranged, I try to give myself a point of no return kind of situation. "i need to be in the top 15 at 5 laps to go, then I need to be in the top 10 at 2 laps to go, then i need to be in the top 5". I find it works to kind of take some pressure off the sprint, keeps me in the present. So anyways last lap im sitting 5th wheel behind Chris Young of Ride Brooklyn. IN front of him are alfred bobe, Josh Rovner and this guy Corey.  Things are strung out and we are a little bit off the front coming into turn 2. In between turn 2 and 3 however things slow up for a second and I get nervous. Thankfully that guy Corey thought he could make an early attack and hold it to the line from way out on the back stretch. He didn't hold it to the line, but he did lead out myself, Josh, Chris and Alfred. All i remember from that point is thinking "... this is good, i like sprinting when its fast".  Next thing I know I'm throwing bike across the line. 

Thanks to everyone for all the support. Congrats to brendan for those primes. Looking real strong dude. Good job to both Aaron and David for successfully navigating a tricky first crit. Patrick, as always looked strong and was taking the best lines through the turns. Thank you Wes for riding the front the majority of the race and chasing down a couple of serious threats! 

Cheers,

Andy 


You ain't cool unless you get called out by NYvelocity commentariat douches.
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I would say less a sand bagger and more of an amateur-athlete-who-is-quite-obviously-superior-to-many-of-his-racing-companions-and-has-thusly-accumulated-many-points-to-move-on-up-to-the-bigs.

Seriously though, when I mentioned the "sand bagger" stuff yesterday, it was genuinely my way of saying that you're a monster rider and am genuinely thrilled to even be in a race with you, never mind being on the same team.
Don't take any shit Andy - it's tradition. If you win you are a sandbagger if you don't you are a nobody.

NyVelocity posters are a nasty crowd; doubly so the ones who just got beat.

You are rocking it after a lot of hard work - and it's not like you are put there screaming "too easy!" when you win...


I said this on Facebook, but it bears repeating. Andy isn't sandbagging, he's learning how to race at the front and win. Too many riders think just because they can ride real fast in the middle of a pack, they are ready to be a category "X."

A few more top performances like this and yeah, Andy will probably be required to upgrade, and he'll be ready. He'll be more than ready, he'll be ready to race in the top 1/3 of a Cat 3 field...not just hanging on at the back.

The upgrade points system is there for a reason. It may not be perfect, and that's why USA Cycling officials like Eric Ragot can exercise some discretion when judging upgrade requests.

Nice job Da Silva!
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Photo courtesy Victor Chan (FB page)
Harlem was easy and hard at the same time.  My computer reports an average speed of 29.3mph for the race and normalized power of 249w.  Looking at the graph, turn one was the easiest, and turn four the hardest.  Turn one the field slows down and out of four it speeds up.  Every lap I'd have four spikes of at least 500w for a few seconds.  Some laps the spikes were over 650w.

I had little problem hiding in the pack.  Because of hte speed, I was conscious about moving up and trying to save energy.  Attacking is a way to burn energy fast.  And I didn't want to waste efforts on doomed moves.

Considering our numbers, our overall fitness, the 10 foundation riders and the Euro mercenaries, I figured the best thing to do was lurk as much as possible and pick a few times to ride hard.  I got close to the front at half distance, dropped back a bit.  Moved up again, with the intention of looking for an attack with 12 to go, but nothing was doing, and people swarmed me when it got easy, so I figured I'd put it all in to fighting for position with 5 to go.

As luck would have it, just as I started to make my push, someone slid out in turn four.  I skidded a bit, slowed alot, and went to the far outside, and was almost off the back.  

That was effectively the race for me.  I burned what I needed getting back to where I had been, and then it was too late to do much more.  

I like the course.  Particularly turn four, where  you can just ride the banked turn super hard.  It feels great pedaling through there.  

Wish I did a few more crits before this.  Getting used to the pace and attacking it is hard to come by without doing more of this kind of racing--or doing motorpacing.

From what I could tell of the front, the race was probably about keeping position in the final laps.  Looking at the finishing pics, my guess is that only a few really sprinted, the rest just kept going as best they could.  In a sense, this would be great to do when we're stronger--make the final mile so hard that no one can do much other than hang on.

responding/reacting to JPs post...

From a spectators point of view, the last 3 laps of this race was all Team Rudy Project (German track team here for T-town stuff) killing it at the front for their guy.

True crits around here are hard to come by. It would be nice if they opened up BaseCamp International to cat 2s. It would also be nice of Somerville was more than 10 minutes long. But if you can swing it with work and family, there's a pretty nice build-up possible starting Memorial Day Weekend...Raritan (of course you'd have to skip the the big RR) Bound Brook, Somerville, and I also found White Plains extremely legit. This year, there was a conflict, but the race in New Jersey on that same day was good hard technical crit.
Good greif.  TWO "RBNY" guys busted their collarbones in the 4's - apparently Ernesto had a front wheel blowout in a turn.  Feels like it's been a crashy season.


i only clicked "disagree" above because it was the word next to the sad face :(
i only clicked "disagree" above because it was the word next to the sad face :(
Yeah
Speaking of crashes. Respect to Daniel who got wiped out by a full tilt crash right on the S-F. The guy corralling the free lap riders didn't seem to be doing such a great job of getting riders back into the main field—giving them a standing start and making them chase back on!? Anyway, Daniel just brushed himself off and dove back into the action like it was some ice hockey game.
Respekt to JP, Ragot and Marc - the Pros/1/2s looked fast. The Germans were the epitomy of er, teutonic efficiency at the end - they set their boy up well (3 man lead out I think).

And just to join in the multiple congrats to the 4s, props to "Sandbagger" Da Silva (WTF is with that btw? How can you be sandbagging if you're still in that cat?) - wait till we get this fella in even better form on the track ;-)

It was good to meet / see again a bunch of you. One thing I forgot to ask @Marc B and @alyoshas - when are we gonna get you out on the track...? ;-)
@mugwump, you looked good. I was wondering how you got to the back late in the race. Good save.

There's still Fair Haven and Basking Ridge. You can get your crit fix out there. I would... if I could move my arm.
I stole my victory salute from Howard Dean . Just in case you were wondering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK2OEeOX6Dk

video from the 4s. andy: i know you said you don't think gopro's capture good footage, but try turning the resolution on the video up to 1080p and i think you'll find it's quite nice.

slow mo's of the crashes (for edification, not for crash porn purposes). Final Crash, turn 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElcVlnBcLDs.  Initial crash, turn 1, slow motion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OK3NUgILnk

if you see a teachable moment in the video, please provide some constructive criticism!  the 4s are a whole different story than the 5s, and i hope to get better at this bike racing thing rather than worse...

don't have time to find everything right now, but some moments to look for (please point out any sweet things you find):
  • 47:43 - crash in final turn, last lap, that ends race for me (and patrick?) - looks like i should've gone on the inside rather than outside, however.  i suppose crashes always go out, not in.  so better to cut in.  but i didn't want to chop anyone--strava says we were going 30 and i was taking things gingerly. toga rider in front of my dodges it brilliantly. i would almost say luck was involved.  i also feel special for steering around that crash; i locked my back wheel and was skidding. went from 30 to 15...
  • 46:25 - bump wheel of guy in front of me, get yelled at by Captain Raceman ("if you bump wheels, you're too close!"--oh, really? thanks for the wisdom).  in truth, his remark discouraged me and i sort of backed off at that point.  like a young child who's been smacked down
  • 45:00 i see RACE WINNER andy move up ahead of me. nice move
  • 44:00 wes!
  • 43:00 some guy hits a pedal or something and someone yells holy shit
  • 34:00 begin preme attack - guy was a lot further ahead than i thought. big waste of energy in the middle of the race. oh well!  i think my goal was to sneak attack him, but it didn't work.
  • 27:58 i decide to go for a prime
  • 26:00 - on outside, never go back in. learn to ride in a pack, brendan!
  • 23:00 - good corner. a good thing i will not repeat
  • 21:40 - neutral laps end, cued by the sound of the moto flooring it. 
  • 9:12 - Captain Raceman from Columbia yells at people for moving up. he yelled a lot throughout the race.  i think his advanced age makes him think people want to hear his yelling.  that, or the senility just makes him yell.  he also decided that people who he thought looked like spanish speakers (apparently language abilities are completely knowable based on appearance--who knew!) should be yelled at in his broken spanish (listen carefully for a mid-sentence correction of "somos" to "estamos").  i thought people from Columbia University were supposed to have tact?  le sigh
  • ~2:03 the crash that neutralizes the field forever
final crash: the red guy didn't hold his line through the turn. Swept the wheel of the guy behind him.
initial crash: can't see how it happened, but it looked ugly.

people who yell at other people in the pack should be avoided. Polite on your left/right are sometimes acceptable, but that's about it, unless a break is trying to get organized and people have differences of opinion (and oxygen debt).
  • 27:58 i decide to go for a prime

Sounded like you coulda kept it going and established a break-away.

That Colnago at 47:22 is HOT. 

props for dudes racin on steel
Hahaha I remember that Columbia from my collegiate racing days. He once spit on my teammate then said "... Your welcome for the shower". Another time he screamed at me for riding in my drops mid pack. Professing that I should only Be in the drops while on the front and that i was a danger to everyone. He would later go on to cause a huge crash in that same race. I thought some hot head undergrads from Drexel were going to jump him after the race.

The Columbia team did their best to distance themselves from him.

Only ride in the drops when you're off the front?  Sage advice.  What about the fact that you get better leverage over the brake and shifting lever, and lower center of gravity for cornering, when in the drops?  Ehhh... he needs to man up and accept perineum discomfort. 
super results! 4s esp. Andy&Brenden's debut...&2 rene! all n all a great day of racing @Harlem Crit; sorry did'nt make it out even as spectator(still licking saturdays wounds)...appreciate reports&images. 29+ avg is nuts!
h:-)
eli fuld from cosmic carve wrote a report about the 4's http://iamelicurtfuld.wordpress.com/2013/06/17/harlem-skyscraper-classic-on-the-16th-of-june-2013/

he mentions me by name!  what's even more awesome is that he said i was counter-attacking.  that is quite a compliment because it attributes to me a sound strategic decision, when really i was just stupidly sprinting for a preme.  i just wanted the $50.  i moved back a million places once i had to recover from the effort.

also some goods shots of the race, including andy's finish (head down, handlebars forward)
Nice race report with photos.
https://player.vimeo.com/video/68843517
Awesome vid.  

You can see the speed, see the racing and definitely see the elbows!!
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I'll reg for the 4s once it's open.

Usually a good KCC turnout for this one. You'll have plenty of cheers before and after. The race for amateurs has improved since Charlie took it over. We now have race distances that are more appropriate for our ability levels and the time of year.

Now the bad. The course, despite being a simple 4-corner crit, has always had a few dicey turns due to pavement issues and narrowness. JP has recently noted that in efforts to slow car traffic for increased pedestrian safety (yay!), they've re-engineered the streets somewhat that will make some of the turns even more challenging. I haven't recon-ed the course yet personally.

That said, I'll likely still race it. Often attracts an interesting regional/international crew (owing largely to the fact that many Euro pro trackies live in nearby T-town all summer...last year it was German dudes with beards) in the Pro 1/2 event.
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