December 14 or 16, you decide (you have one day, vote in the Doodle poll below)

Address: 119 Ludlow Street (Ludlow and Delancey), Manhattan, underneath Crops and Barbers.
(near the F and J, M, Z trains). A few blocks from the Williamsburg Bridge.

Time: 7pm

I'll discuss how to set up a year-long training plan as well as how to structure your training now, a month from now, three months from now, in the summer, etc. I'm bringing a detailed handout, you bring questions.

http://www.doodle.com/9izx7wkavudtt55q;jsessionid=A2901F335B5B8A9D4230B29493EC91A8.worker1

I'm compiling some tips from recent email threads:

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:: Keith, Nov 10, 2010 ::
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http://thefortyonechronicle.blogspot.com/2010/11/weights-and-measures.html

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:: Marc Bertucco, Oct 28, 2010 ::
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Winter Weight Training: Keeping it Simple
Ever since my first YMCA Father-Son weightlifting class in the early 1980s, old-school weight and resistance training has, in varying degrees, been a part of my routine. For a few years, I was on a highly specific periodized plan that took me through specific endurance, power and strength phases much as you might encounter in a traditional on the bike training plan. And such a plan can be a valuable addition to your training package.

But, if you don't have the time, money or interest in exercising your inner Schwarzenegger this off-season, there are still a few exercises that you can do at home that will absolutely make a difference in your on the bike performance in 2011. The focus here is going to working on your CORE strength.

1. Sit-ups. Believe it or not, one of the most common sources of lower back pain are weak abdominal muscles. The back and stomach work in tandem and when there is an imbalance in muscle strength (due to our position on the bike, our backs tend to be pretty damn strong) that can manifests itself as low back pain when riding. Sit ups are one of the few resistance training exercises you can actually do every single day (unlike, say free-weight squats), and if you've got the discipline go for it. Otherwise, shoot for some variation of stomach-work 3 times a week. I favor a few exercises learned from my days as a competitive gymnast. The easiest of which to explain in an email are "V-sits."

One exercise suggestion: V-sits! Lie on your back, hands extended over your head, legs out straight and flat. Then, bend at the waist bringing your hands to your feet, forming a V with your body. Keep those legs straight. You won't necessarily be able to touch your toes, and that's fine, just keep those legs straight and focus on making your stomach do all the work. Unlike say "crunches" V-sits exercise the entire range of your abdominals due to the wide range of motion required to complete a rep.

2. Push-ups: While our legs do most of the work when riding, good core strength which includes muscles like the pectorals, latissimus dorsi (lats) and triceps are important for maintaining balance and stability. And when the road gets rough (hello crossers and lovers of all things Battenkill), your upper body is going to get a workout. A good, out-of-the-saddle sprint or especially steep climb will be greatly enhanced if you have a fit core to keep that bike moving.

One exercise suggestion: Diamond push-ups! What's great about the push-up is that depending on your hand position, you can emphasize different muscle groups. By doing a push up with the tips of your forefinger and thumbs touching forming a diamond shape, you are making your triceps do more of the work. Widen your "grip" and you pull in a broader range of muscle groups. Try these 3 days a week too. One day do diamond push-ups, one day standard shoulder width, one day double shoulder width.

Remember with ALL resistance/weight training, focus on the quality of your form, rather than quantity. I would rather do 10 slow to moderately paced straight backed push-ups than 30 wormy, sloppy efforts.

I'll be at both MAC cross races this weekend and if any of you want to talk more about this or other training topics, feel free to get up in my grill. I'll even be happy to demonstrate my favorite, "gym-less" at-home exercises.

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:: Roy, Oct 28, 2010 ::
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1. Train with Jan.
2. Eat smart and get the body fat down to 8-9% - now is the time to lose weight - not in the season. Mild weight loss in the season (2%) is helpful in gaining form - w/o losing strength. It is hard to lose weight and stay strong. Do it gradually. Do not reduce caloric intake by more than 10% at a time - wait for the body to develop a new set point - you will get comfortable after a few weeks.
3. Gain strength through a progressive resistance regime using the pedal stroke - indoor trainer or spinner. Weights are intriguing, but do not duplicate the pedal stroke - beware of muscle imbalances that may harm the efficiency of the stroke.
4. Get out of the saddle for that long climb - sit and spin on the next one.
5. Do a sprint now and then. Work on technique and keep those muscles coordinated - they'll be needed for serious sprint workouts later in the Spring.
5. Train with Jan.

Good luck with Winter prep.... hope to see everyone nice and fit in the Spring.

I've found strength training to be very beneficial for riding and I'd like to add to Marc's comments:

1. When doing V-sits (or any other ab exercise that involves lifting the legs off the floor) it is very easy to engage the wrong muscles. Principally - your glutes and quads. As a cyclist these will be stronger than your abs and so you'll engage them first. It's easy to tell if this is happening as you'll feel the burn in your quads before your abs, or maybe your legs will start to shake a little.
I've found that a good way to ensure the abs are doing the lifting is to engage the legs in something else (clearly my legs are stupid and can only do one thing at a time).
So I do the exercise exactly as Marc suggests but I hold a stability ball between my ankles. The fact that the legs are focused on squeezing together to hold the ball engages the adductors and seems to stop the quads getting involved.
If you want to make it really fun hold a medicine ball in your hands and as you V-sit touch the medicine ball and stability ball together above your abs.
Actually, "fun" may have been the wrong choice of word.

I think a simple set of back exercises can really improve life on bike too. They can prevent those aches starting in the upper or lower back at the end of a long ride.
You don't need to do a lot of these. Say 2 sets of 10-12 once a week.
For the upper back I really like incline rear delt flyes: incline a gym bench just a little. Lay on it facing the floor. Hold 2 dumbells so they hang down towards the floor and then bring your arms out to the sides : as if you were pretending to be an aeroplane.
I prefer these to the one arm row which most people know. However where the one arm row is really good is where equipment is limited and there is no incline bench. In this case just get into a push-up position, but with a dumbell or kettle-bell in one hand and then keeping the elbow close the body raise the weight until it is level with your chest.
For the lower back: lay face down on the floor and raise you legs and chest off the floor. Even though no weights are involved - be careful with these (and any lower back exercise). Don't try and bend yourself very far: you will not need to get your legs and chest far off the floor for these to work.

Looks like Tuesday December 14 has it!

Thanks all for voting.

See you on Sunday, or Tuesday, or both

JP

Looking forward to it. Thanks for putting this together, JP.

Would anybody be able to take notes and do a brief write-up on tips or what they learned? Perhaps the discussion you guys have can continue on the forums or something so that those of us who can't make it can still partake in some way/learn something.

I'm sure JP would be willing to send you the handouts - I will try to take notes on the Q&A and post on anything not covered in the handout.

reminder. Talk is tomorrow night.

if you're planning on coming, vote in teh Doodle poll so we can get an accurate headcount

http://www.doodle.com/participation.html;jsessionid=53F9EB686DFE01C64585566B538803DD.worker1?pollId=9izx7wkavudtt55q&adminKey=&participantKey=&expandedTab=&summary=more

see you there.

JP

Will there be space to bring a bike in or secure parking somewhere ?

Hey all,

I've talked to a few people and done some research about starting a winter weight training and plyometrics program, but have had suggestions across the charts. I'm considering starting both. I have done weight training before although infrequently. I am totally new to the plyometrics thing.

My general goal is to improve my "jump". Specifically, my power output (at least according to the excel charts I've seen) is very competitive above 5 minutes but under 30 seconds it falls way way off into the zone of "recreational / untrained cyclist" - ouch! I know I will probably never be a field sprinter but I would like to stop taking last out of the however many guys make the break. That is lame.

I'm starting up the weights doing Joel Friel style "anatomical adaption" stuff - lots of lifts, lots of reps, low weight loads for the next 6 weeks or so. I'm willing and able to add the plyometrics but am not sure how and when, or even what exercises to do. Lots of the stuff I have been reading is related to very general stuff, without much information about how and when to incorporate it into your season.

Here are a few things I've looked over:

http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/plyometricexercises.html

http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2007/02/plyometrics-research.html

Any suggestions of what has worked for you would be much appreciated.

Michael

tabata workouts

can be done with whatever exercise

20 seconds on, 10 seconds off, repeat 8 times

hugely beneficial

also, excruciating for the first couple of weeks

you WILL experience muscle shut down within 4 minutes the first bunch of times

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDcNzEFr7yA

I do squats, jump squats, and lunge jumps, and i start them in the late fall and do them through the winter. i do them 3x/week, which might be a bit much, but when it's cold i'm not spending much time on a bike (a couple rollers hours per week) i need to feel like i'm doing something with my legs. you want to start slow with plyometrics, though, because william's right - at first they are pretty painful.

it's worth noting that improving your sprint will take more than building muscle. including some hard accelerations in your training, as well as low-gear form sprints (like, in your 39x17), will help a lot.

I will be there after work. 7:15ish.

shit, stuck at work for this stupid meeting about cold weather riding.

sorry dudes.

about to leave work; see you folks soon

Aldo Sassi, may he RIP, said : "At the start of my career I believed in the gymnasium, but now apart from back and abdominal work, I think that all strength training for the legs should be done on the bike."

Tabata Squats: Ouch!!! All those reps with nearly maximum compression of the joint is just asking for trouble. I'm not willing to take the risk of becoming crippled. An alternative is Hindu squats, legs are parallel and heels are raised with each squat. As many as 150 can be done at once at a much slower pace. You will feel it believe me.

Ed, The compression on a knee joint does not alter during a tabata squat or a hindu squat. The knee goes through a greater range of flexion (and extension) in the tabata example. Flexing and extending are what the knee is designed to do.

Slightly off-topic, but I want to add some clarity because there is a lot of misplaced belief that deep squats will cause knee problems, especially with weights.

They do not - if done correctly, but to be done correctly requires good flexibilty and strength: The hip flexors, hamstrings, and especially the achilles needs to be flexible enough to faciliate a deep squat with the heels flat to the floor; the core and lower back need to be strong to stay aligned in a slightly hyperextended state, and the quads need to be strong to hold the position at the bottom of the squat. When all that is present and correct then the deeper squat is useful as it engages the glutes more to push up.

You are correct that we don't need to do deep squats though, not because of injury risk, but because we can get the benefit we need from going down only to where our thighs are parallel to the ground (even this requires good flexibility) however the likes of Hoy and Pendleton DO need the extra glute power that deep squats provide.

If people what to get better at squats: stretching of the hip flexors and achilles is important, and switch to the FRONT squat. This forces good technique.

Tried the tabata excersize in the above video.

Baby steps... instead of 8 reps, started out with 4.

It's a good thing I did. Going down the stairs immediately after, my legs felt like they do after doing a long hard workout.

If I keep these going, I'll post a progress report.

Happy New Year to all!

Rick

So, i've busked it through a couple of seasons with no real training and maybe 2000 miles a year,
I'm lucky enough genetically (and tough enough with some race skills) to do ok in races,
i'll never podium unless there's the perfect field sprint and I'm cool with that.

so heres the issue:

I now have 2 kids, 1 put the brakes on the riding, 2 is another story.

i'll be lucky to get 1 weekend group ride in a month and maybe 2 or 3 hours in during the week if i can be disciplined
if you follow the 'wattage' group someone posted 'what would you do with 20hrs a week?',
-i'm more like 5hrs on a good week.

i've read joe friel and 'time crunched' but i'm so time crunched its crazy,
clearly a 'base miles' paradigm isnt happening for me.

here's the situation:

morning rides aren't an option, need to look after older kid while wife sleeps.
riding outside isnt really on the cards because it needs to be at night, ie 8pm.
I have rollers and a room i can ride in.
i broke my turbo trainer.

with so few hours for the next few months what would you?

A-just spin on rollers all the time, keep the legs moving and benefit from an improving stroke, downside being no real power work getting done, upside being rollers with power is quite fun.
B-break open the wallet, buy a good turbo and start doing 2x20s and that kind of thing so i'm really killing myself in every workout.
C-let me know another scenario...

with a plan & structure , i think i can do something to keep me riding,
if its aimless i'll just end up not riding at all some weeks cos it'll seem pointless.

when the season comes i'm just gonna race locally at the crack of dawn, maybe do catskills when the time comes.
no grand tours for me.

i'm sure with a club of this size some of you have been through my situation,
any and all thoughts (including ridicule) welcome.

thanks


alex

lots of people more informed than me, but i think the main thing if you're time-crunched as to spend your riding time going hard

i'm time crunched as well these days, and our friend mattio (who has a newly minted USAC coaching certification) designed me a plan of a maximum 3 workouts a week (more like 2) that pushes me hard every time

however, the workouts evolve . . . starting with longer easier efforts at the beginning of your training plan and becmoing shorter and harded as the weeks go on

A. Ditto. But some coaches tend to prefer shorter repeats first.
"Altering the duration of intervals place different demands on your body to adapt to that workload. Along any curve, you generally want to progress throughout the season from higher reps (i.e., shorter intervals) to lower reps (i.e., longer intervals). That’s because your ultimate goal is to prolong the time you can handle a particular workload." Stephen Cheung
http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=2146
S. Cheung cites the Canadian coach Guy Thibault, who's article is available at: http://www.coachr.org/a_graphical_model_for_interval.htm
The same Guy Thibault wrote elsewhere it's better to do a higher number (25-40) of shorter reps (10"-40") at the beginning of the preparation, then do lengthen the repeats (3'-10'). Here's a quotation in French:
"En début de saison, faites surtout des séances d’EPI comprenant plus de 25 et même parfois plus de 40 courtes (10 à 45 s) fractions d’effort – cela maximise le temps cumulé à intensité cible élevée, d’où l’accent sur la quantité. À l’approche des dernières compétitions importantes, faites de plus en plus de séances d’EPI comprenant des fractions d’effort plus longues (3 à 10 min). Cela développe l’aptitude à maintenir longtemps l’effort (accent sur la qualité)."

B. Alex, get a trainer for the hard repeats.

Posted By: WilliamDClot's of people more informed than me, but i think the main thing if you're time-crunched as to spend your riding time going hard

i'm time crunched as well these days, and our friend mattio (who has a newly minted USAC coaching certification) designed me a plan of a maximum 3 workouts a week (more like 2) that pushes me hard every time

however, the workouts evolve . . . starting with longer easier efforts at the beginning of your training plan and becmoing shorter and harded as the weeks go on

What are you basing your workout zones on, HR or power?

Thanks all

I'm on a powertap
Can't really get above 'endurance' safely on rollers without going so fast it's sketchy and noisey/vibration from tires

Been really working on posture lately, straight back, relaxed shoulders etc

roll a towel up and place it under the rear roller for some extra resistance.

Otherwise, ride hard when you can. My take on it is to get through the winter still in love with your bike. Getting on the trainer (or rollers) can be done in an hour or less if done properly.

Try these for fun:
Rollers - warm up for 12 min like this:
ride - 5 min
then:
10 sec fast / 10 sec rest - 2 min
20 sec fast / 10 sec rest - 2 min
30 sec fast / 10 sec rest - 3 min

Now your ready for some more hurt - to keep things fun try pyramids:
1 min fast, 30 sec recovery
2 min fast, 30 sec recovery
3 min fast, 30 sec recovery
4 min fast, 30 sec recover
3 min
2 min
1 min

Now where are we? 32 min or so.
Rest by spinning easy for 2-3 minutes then...

Repeat the pyramid.

Then cool down.

1 hour or so total (ride more to start or finish if you want).

HR - it will go up even without the towel.


Mix up the roller workouts by changing the intervals to negative splits so that for your 1 min effort you do the second 30 seconds faster than the first. and then the second minute of the 2 minute faster than the first.

Another mixer is that the last 10 seconds of each effort, you accelerate for those 10 seconds.

I have other variations too.


As for the trainer - you can do the same workouts to get you through the winter.

Eric
Kissena Mentor

I started with some squat jumps and 1/2 sets of Tabatha squats. Will slowly incorporate longer sets and more exercises and report back. I'm thinking about doing plyometrics 2x a week and hitting the gym 1 time a week for a circuit lift routine.

Hopefully it will help with explosive power - but if it only helps me keep active during the winter months that is enough benefit for me to call it a success.

Alex,

I think there are a few things that you should keep in mind as you train yourself into shape this winter with your training restrictions.

1. Beg, borrow, steal a "turbo trainer." Look, I love me some old-school rollers and lots of folks will wax poetic about their beauty and elegance and tell you about how they add resistance units to give them the perfect combination of workoutability and style points, but you need something stable that provides suitable resistance so you can focus on your efforts. Save the rollers for "active recovery" rides after a tough night of intervals.

2. Specificity. The less time you have the more specific you have to be with your workouts. Most of my trainer workouts are 1 hour to 1 hour and 15 minutes in length. And like William, I do in the neighborhood of 3 a week.

3. Pay attention. You've got a power meter, heart rate monitor and if you are lucky something that measures cadence as well. Use them all as you plan and execute your workouts.

4. Expectations. I would expect, based on what you've already said, and what I know to be true about the nature of NYC racing, that even on your limited saddle time, you'll be able to be fit enough to race in the parks and at least have some fun. But having an understanding of what your limitations are when it comes to longer "out of town" races now, will help keep your spirits up and enjoying the bike.

5. Park riding at night. I don't know about Prospect Park, but Central Park is well lit and very safe to ride long after the sun has set. Getting outside when you are working on sprints is going to be helpful, because, there are some kinds of efforts that don't go very well even on a turbo trainer.

-Marc Bertucco

I think Eric hit the nail on the head when he wrote you have to get through winter and still love the bike. So, keep things varied, focused, and fun. Personally, I think cross-training can help.

Make up custom music mixes, find inspiring podcasts, watch bike racing videos, etc. There are some "workout" dvds that can lead you through various interval workouts--and many find having to follow directions is easier than telling oneself what to do. I watched a few Real Rides with Robbie Ventura last week. Just put my laptop on a window sill and watched.

I think if you're stuck indoors, two to three workouts from monday through friday is probably enough. Make them count. Don't do endurance rides--no two hours plus. If you're riding indoors, make every ride have a purpose. Even if you just want to spin your legs out, work on cadence and one-legged pedalling.

I like rollers. Don't know what Marc is writing about with style points on rollers. With resistance, you can do just about everything. I ride Kreitlers with a headwind unit and I have no problem doing V02 max, threshold, tempo, endurance, and recovery efforts at the intensity I do them outdoors (I have a powermeter, so I know). Sprints can be done on rollers, but it's about form more than strength, though the form is, in my opinion, worth lots. But this roller limitation is only so much; I've never experienced a trainer that I could really get my wattage in my sprint range, nor one where I could put out outdoor wattage for a 30 second or 1 minute effort.

If you can't get satisfactory resistance for your rollers, get something stationary, but do use your rollers for some efforts.

Try to ride outside twice a week. No matter how "real" any indoor device can seem,it's impossible to replicate exactly how a hill feels.

Here's an "easy ride" I like to do on rollers. Start in my lowest gear. Ride it at 80 rpm for three minutes. Then 90 for three. then 100, then 110. Shift into the next cog. Repeat. Shift into the next cog. Repeat. When this gets boring, practice riding no-handed. When you've mastered that, practice riding one-legged. Switch legs. Take off a jersey. Put on a jersey. eat from a plate.

Thanks Eric and JP for the workout ideas - anything to keep it interesting when indoors.

Alex,

I guess we can all agree that you need resistance for your indoor training. And that a proper sprint workout is best out of doors.

So I guess I would pick the cheapest and easiest to manage of the three options presented by various responders.

The towel, an add-on resistance unit, or a trainer.

thinking more about this...

Rollers and speed. Make sure your rollers don't slip. first, make sure the feet are covered with something rubbery. If that doesn't do it, try a foam pad. If that's not enough, some thick carpet over the foam pad. Even on slipping rollers, I've managed sprints in my biggest gear.

Keep the room cool. Keep yourself cool. While there may be a short-term benefit to overheating, it won't help much in winter. Make the room cold, keep a fan on you, drink.

TABATA has come up in other threads. Even without resistance, you can do these. Eric's routine is TABATAesque. Imagine 20s on 10s off in your biggest gear. It will hurt. I doubt you'll be able to make four minutes the first time you try.

In terms of other workouts, I like 30-30 workouts for VO2. The 30-30 of the name is for 30 seconds on, 30 seconds off. You do 30 seconds at 100% of your VO2 max wattage, then 30 seconds at 70% of that power, then repeat. This can work your VO2 max and actually improve it without the strain of the 3-5 minute intervals at a steady 100% of your VO2. You absolutely need a power measuring device for this. it can be done with any trainer with resistance, though a programmable ergometer would probably work best. On the programmable erg, you load in the resistance in watts and have it alternate in 30-second bursts. That way you don't have to concern yourself with controlling wattage or cadence. It's the kind of workout you'd do once a week. I do this in 10m blocks followed by 10m rest.

to make threshold workouts less boring, I like to do 5m at threshold, 1m rest, repeat. Some go until failure. Some go for 40-60 minutes. Having a time goal makes it easier to focus. If you're going well, you can always extend.

For tempo intervals, I'll sometimes do 20m broken up into four or five segments with the power steady. Start at 90rpm, drop it to 80, raise to 100, then 110, then back to 90,or some other combination. Some like to start at 80 and work their way to 110 and vice versa. Others like to start at the low end of their power range,then pick up the power through the interval. Some might even change gears every two minutes, just going up and down the cassette to keep focus on and things interesting.

To keep it from getting dreadful, I'd have a different workout for every time I get on the indoor bike over the course of a week. I'd do these workouts for no longer than three weeks in succession. then, after a rest week,figure out different workouts for each ride. Even if the workouts are designed to hit the same things, a different order, a different day of the week, a different method are all benefits.

JP