Jul 14, 2013 at 06:44 PM
There are some great videos of the crucial moments of the 123 race on Youtube. Here's the final bumps just before I get dropped.
http://youtu.be/M_HlE3B78QY
http://youtu.be/M_HlE3B78QYCapital Region RR
Jul 14, 2013 at 06:48 PM
One observation-when the field finally had enough of the break pretending to be the real deal, and after letting them have 50 miles out front, the hammer went down. Big style. I would like to say that it is plain rude that I was in 52/11 on the FLAT, as the monsters at the front, including Jelly Belly pro, decided to finish up with the break. That's just rude, people. 52/11 is a downhill, gear. Downhill.
That is all.
Jul 15, 2013 at 02:58 AM
Good racing all around across all categories. Looking at Ryan's and Jules' power numbers, I can't help but to wonder: When are we going to start presenting them as watts/kg? Jules, racing conservatively in the cat 4 field, bested Ryan's 20/30-ish minute power in the 1/2/3 field by 40 watts?
I guess if Jules is 20-ish lbs heavier than Ryan, that makes sense. Except, the raw numbers, still don't make sense to me. How does a conservatively racing cat 4 have to generate so much more power than a dude in a pretty selective Cat 1/2/3 field.
If those numbers are right, can we say that Ryan used his power, saved his power better and Jules' despite racing conservatively, wasted his a bit too much?
The other thing this tells me that I may never be able to do another road race again, if I have to crank out 312 watts for 30 minutes to keep up with cat 4s. Yikes!
In other news/thoughts...Jules, you may not enjoy how you tactically chose to race today, but...damn, dude, you got 7th place! Enjoy those top 10s for as long as you can. Because after you upgrade to Cat 3, you may just find yourself racing Chabanov and a host of other semi-pros. You'll have plenty of races where you can just empty the tank attacking, bridging, chasing until your legs implode.
Jul 15, 2013 at 03:30 AM
Marc, I weigh 140 right now. I think Jules is at least 10 lbs heavier. He's skinny but he's like, 6 inches taller than me. Remember too that our race was twice as long and it was semi-easy for a lap or two before, as Adam describes, all hell broke loose.
But I agree, w/kg would be useful.
I was also very careful to save energy because my goal was to be in the race at the end.
Jul 15, 2013 at 05:20 AM
The power numbers seem sensible to me (and nice!) --Jules is probably 18lbs over master Ryan, and Jules was surely on the pedals pretty hard even if he wasn't dishing-out/enduring spikes. Neverthless, the watts/kg would be good to look at. Then again --the stories are more interesting than the data!
Jul 15, 2013 at 05:20 AM
Nice job pulling your guts out guys!
Jul 15, 2013 at 12:17 PM
Norm is right I was probably 157 for that race. 71.3kg
That's a hair under 4.4w/kg for 30 minutes.
I don't think I wasted energy; I'm a lot taller therefore less aero than Ryan and I don't think you can compare the numbnuts riding of the 4 field (surges, gaps, randomly chasing nobody etc) with a P123 field.
If I ever get there we'll be able to compare...
I don't think it's a stretch to think Ryan is putting out more in w/kg than me; he's in a stronger category, training 50% more and about ten years younger.
I don't think it's a stretch to think Ryan is putting out more in w/kg than me; he's in a stronger category, training 50% more and about ten years younger.
It would be disrespectful to assume that he somehow "snuck" into the final selection of a P123 race without some big league numbers.
All of this holds true for Adam as well except he has the dual handicaps of riding with a funny accent and that GIGANTIC brain he has to cart around wherever he goes.
All of this holds true for Adam as well except he has the dual handicaps of riding with a funny accent and that GIGANTIC brain he has to cart around wherever he goes.
Jul 15, 2013 at 01:00 PM
ADAM NAGUIB 4th Cat3, besting Ryan. Damn! Nice effort mate!All of this holds true for Adam as well except he has the dual handicaps of riding with a funny accent and that GIGANTIC brain he has to cart around wherever he goes.
But hold on a minute... gigantic brain + full access to a "cancer research lab"... hmmm.
Jul 15, 2013 at 01:12 PM
(Not to mention.... HAIRY LEGS!)
Please, please do not try this at home...
Please, please do not try this at home...
Jul 15, 2013 at 01:50 PM
Thanks John, although 'besting Ryan' is a bit of a stretch. I got popped 3 or so miles before Ryan, actually. I rode the last 10 miles OTB, whereas Ryan did that for the last 6 or so. I just had my shit together a bit and worked with what was the minuscule grupetto to get home. By the time we caught Ryan about a mile from the end, he was gobbledygook from the effort! He left it all on the road! Wouldn't say there was much in it. I rode a little at the front, as Ryan pointed out to me, and although I had my reasons (hitting the front at the most technical sections so I could chose the faster line and avoid the jumps that resulted from the field stretching/contracting) I was not as efficient as I should have been, in hindsight, some energy I could have saved. Might have lasted another climb or two if I had been more efficient but needless to say, the final selection was very, very selective (Chabanov didn't make it!).
Here's a shout out to Diamond Joe. Poor kid had a nightmare of a time after our 45mph descent, with 145 degree turn, followed by a 300m 15% kicker (basically we went from 45 to 5mph for the turn). He decided to use carbon rims which, coupled with the rain, meant he had a really hard time braking (it was hard enough with my exquisite-functioning Dura Ace brakes and Dura Ace aluminium rims). For 2/4 laps like a true warrior he chased back on after that hardest part of the course. Amazing. I couldn't have done that. Props.
Jul 15, 2013 at 02:15 PM
Adam rode super strong - for a still relatively new 3 to look like he belonged in that race is pretty remarkable. The point in the race where he got gapped was absolutely murderous. Lots of guys who aren't 3s were going OTB at that moment.
Since I'm on a boring conference call, I went ahead and calculated my w/kg for the power above (this is based on what I weighed this morning, I didn't weigh myself before the race). Here you go. Not sure how much the 10 and 20 tells us since the key efforts in this race are a bit shorter. My 2 min power was a record. I haven't set many power records in races outside TTs.
1 min 7.47 w/kg
2 min 7.04 w/kg
5 min 5.50 w/kg
10 min 4.69 w/kg
20 min 4.27 w/kg
Jul 15, 2013 at 02:20 PM
Measure it with imperial, metric or Kellicam... Ryan and Adam are riding like bad motherf*ckers these days...
(so is Joe but his blinding good looks keep making me forget my train of thought...)
Jul 15, 2013 at 02:47 PM
Normalized or average power?
Ryan J said:Adam rode super strong - for a still relatively new 3 to look like he belonged in that race is pretty remarkable. The point in the race where he got gapped was absolutely murderous. Lots of guys who aren't 3s were going OTB at that moment.Since I'm on a boring conference call, I went ahead and calculated my w/kg for the power above (this is based on what I weighed this morning, I didn't weigh myself before the race). Here you go. Not sure how much the 10 and 20 tells us since the key efforts in this race are a bit shorter. My 2 min power was a record. I haven't set many power records in races outside TTs.1 min 7.47 w/kg2 min 7.04 w/kg5 min 5.50 w/kg10 min 4.69 w/kg20 min 4.27 w/kg
Jul 15, 2013 at 03:23 PM
Quick report for me.
First time doing this race, I loved the course, too bad that I was the only Kissena in the 5's. The neutral ride to the the start was pretty sketchy, I was certain of a upcoming crash, thank God it did not happen. The unfortunate thing is that I did not warm up properly before race started which caused me some grief in the beginning during those hills. I worked with 10 other guys until the end, I even was complimented by the strength of my pulls. Time: 2:11 and change, not bad for a first timer. I'll come back next year.
Jul 15, 2013 at 03:30 PM
@Eric those are all average numbers. My understanding is that GCs normalized isn't that useful for the shorter efforts.
Jul 15, 2013 at 04:13 PM
Nice work Thierry. Generally the longer the race the shorter the warmup needed; this one is a bear because that steep stuff comes so quickly.Thierry Bonnaire said:not happen. The unfortunate thing is that I did not warm up properly before race started which caused me some grief in the beginning during those hills. I worked with 10 other guys until the end, I even was
Jun 19, 2014 at 01:47 AM
Heard some mumbling about guys wanting to do well in this race. I'd be willing to sign up and put in some diggs if people want to go. It's the same day as Neversink so I'll do that instead if not. Anyone have this on their radar?
Jun 19, 2014 at 02:12 AM
Just saw that it's a 3/4 this year. Kinda bummed about that. Wishing I was 40. The P123 might be pushing it for this fatty.
Jun 19, 2014 at 02:23 AM
It was a 3/4 last year as well.
It's not really a climber's race - but there are hills.
I'm doing the 123. It will be hard. Goal is to survive.
It's not really a climber's race - but there are hills.
I'm doing the 123. It will be hard. Goal is to survive.
Jun 19, 2014 at 05:08 AM
Ha...not a climbing race...says that guy.Ryan J said:It was a 3/4 last year as well. It's not really a climber's race - but there are hills. I'm doing the 123. It will be hard. Goal is to survive.
Jun 19, 2014 at 12:44 PM
It's not a climbing race.
The climbs are short and steep, but all kinds of riders do well. The same guys don't do well at Cap Region and, say Catskills.
Jun 19, 2014 at 04:34 PM
I will do the p123
I will suffer
Jun 20, 2014 at 05:11 PM
I'm in for the 123. I was able to pull the start at the front finish at the back for the hills
Jun 20, 2014 at 09:31 PM
I'm in for the 4.
Jul 02, 2014 at 01:27 PM
Ryan J said:
I'm starting to re-think this...looking at the pre-reg, I think the 3/4 field will basically be a 3 race, since there is a separate Cat 4 field that's filling up. I also went to road results and clicked on a lot of the names in the 3/4 and saw no 4s reg'd in the 3/4 field.It was a 3/4 last year as well. It's not really a climber's race - but there are hills. I'm doing the 123. It will be hard. Goal is to survive.
Last year I got dropped from the P123 on the flat stretch after the last climb about 10k from the finish. I don't have the form I had last year. So, maybe I should just go ahead and race against other Cat 3s....
Jul 02, 2014 at 01:36 PM
Hey Ryan I'm down. Trying to get out of my comfort Zone.
Jul 02, 2014 at 01:56 PM
Read back on the thread for advice; some people really suffered because the first steep ramp is very early.
Jul 02, 2014 at 02:15 PM
This sort of thing used to happen to me all the time on shorter climbs (5 minutes or less). I'd survive the climb proper, but get murdered on the "flats" after the climb when I was ready for a rest, but the strongest of the field were ready to crank it at mega watts for a few more minutes. Part of that is just going to be the gap between you and the next guy. He wants to rest too, and he is too; it's just his version of rest is your version of TT pace or more. But part of it is that the strongest/smartest riders know that they can drop dudes like you and me AFTER the climb too.Ryan J said:Last year I got dropped from the P123 on the flat stretch after the last climb about 10k from the finish. I don't have the form I had last year. So, maybe I should just go ahead and race against other Cat 3s....
It's yet another good reason to think about positioning on the climb even if you are a strong climber.
But also, when you are out doing harder climbs on a road ride on your next "bag-o-hammer" ride, be sure to keep the pressure on the pedals after the initial pitches of whatever climb you are doing. For example the Water Tower climb en route to the Rockland Lake ride. The action dips down before the last two pitches before the final descent. Next time you do this climb, really focus on keeping the watts up even as the road tilts down a bit.
Jul 02, 2014 at 03:07 PM
Yeah I mean it was just an issue of being totally outmatched. We are talking about Chananov setting the pace up the final climb and then actual pros (jelly belly) setting the pace after. There's actually a video somewhere it may be on this thread I will look for it later. I remember passing Alan Carr who looked like he was absolutely dying on the climb and thinking "well if I'm moving up past him and he looks that bad maybe I'm doing okay.." So I actually did move up on the climb. But I just reached a point where I had given everything I had. I was on the wheel - I just couldn't hold it.
Jul 02, 2014 at 05:31 PM
Here's the video - desperate moments