It's never too soon to start preparing!

Latest facebook post says the TT is gone:

Friday Crit
Saturday Devil's Kitchen
Sunday Epic Road Race aka Battenkill

The Orange Train is gonna lay down some P.A.I.N....

j

http://www.tourofthecatskills.com/

56 days to go! yay

For those who haven't done it before it's a great race. I don't have much to compare to it but enjoyed it 110% last year.

They changed the time trial to a downhill/uphill/downhill/uphill with only a 260' elevation gain over 12 miles. Much different then last years 500' gain over 2.2 miles.
Shame, I think it should have stayed a pure- climbers race. Map here: http://www.mapmyride.com/s/routes/view/road-cycling-map/new-york/hunter/34454656

Stage two now features Devil Kitchen. That's a plus since they made it 10 miles longer (65 now) and did away with that unknowing finish line as soon as you came around the corner. '

Stage three is now similar to last years stage 2 but going in opposite direction. I think they did away with that nice long highway decent as well.

Ryan mentioned that he is up for setting up housing for all of us. I think that's a great idea since you can easily spend over 500 for a single bed motel up there.

Last year I stayed at the Sunview in Tannersville. Very close to all the race starts, right by main street. That's one option, another would be a small vacation home depending on the interest.

I will probably be doing it as a Cat 3

Fell free to add your thoughts/ interest/ race strategy to here

Devil's Kitchen is by far, the hardest climb I have ever done. It's steep and long. I could barely turn over my 39 x 27 and I was already OTB and by myself last year by the time I hit this nasty portion of the day.

Yeah I've done this race twice now, and I love it. Big target for me and I look forward to the trip every year.

I've learned it's good to book early up there, and I plan to proceed with plans very soon. Thusly, I want to get a sense of who might want to go in. Right now I've got me, Wojciech, Jeff, Norm, and Joe M, as well as my brother from California and possibly a teammate or two of his from Ritte Racing.

I'll probably start putting something together with the crew that we have very soon, so if anyone else wants in they should speak up ASAP.

I'm most likely going to do this race, even though I got systematically destroyed there last year, even discounting my two mechanicals.

I would like to echo Marc in emphasizing that Devil's Kitchen is completely inSANE. I did over 12 minutes averaging 315 watts on that sumbitch. Set BOTH my 10- and 15-minute peak power records on it (325/306). Bear in mind that ALL I was trying to do was NOT GET OFF MY BIKE! My cadence went as low as 34 in a 34-27. I saw dudes doing the paperboy route up the thing. I saw dudes straight up get off and walk. I saw dudes shuffling up it in their socks. I saw dudes just standing at the side, leaning over their bikes looking like they were about to wretch.

Gearing is utterly crucial. Get it out of your head that you can get by with anything resembling standard gearing at this race. Get an 11-28 cassette (SRAM makes one) and a compact crank. You will not regret it, I promise. Alberto Contador would ride his compact on that hill without a shadow of a doubt.

Too bad I'm one year too young to race in the 60+, I've heard that in that category it's OK to have the fans push you up Devil's kitchen. In 55 days? I guess no more pie (I had just renounced eating a second slice), no more smoked meat in Montreal. Anyway, given my lack of form, I intend to peak at GMSR this year (could not find an interesting road race later in the year)! Tour of the Catskills will be a stepping stone, count me in Ryan.

I'm in. I can also drive some of us up there if someone has a bike rack.

This will be my first stage race? Wise choice?

I could be in. I'll post more on my general race readiness in another thread.

two race specific questions:
a) do they have time cuts ? I couldn't find much in terms of rules\regs on the race's website.

b) CAT 4 has 74 people registered, CAT 5 under 35 only has 13.
I'll have my 10 races by then, but based on my still having trouble with race pace, I figure if I want to have any chance, stick around in the 5 until end of season and give myself time to learn.
But will they run a category with only 13 folks ? I hope it would get closer to the 50 limit between now and then.

Answers...

A) They had time cuts last year. I think time cuts in amateur stage racing are ridiculous, but most promoters who have them will tell you it's so that riders from teams don't "save" their legs from one stage to the next to help their teammates. Because yeah, that's what's happening in the Cat 5s. Email the promoter to ask for sure. Last year, I squeaked through until the last day (the Devil's Kitchen stage), when I finished outside the time limit. So even though I finished the stage, I wasn't given a finishing time. Which kind of pissed me off, considering I had to race against Floyd Landis and a mess of other Pros and tough cat 1s. But at least I got to race every day.

At "worst" they might take a small category and combine it with another, but still give you separate finish positions. So maybe cat 5 under/over 35 will be run as one category. But honestly, it's still way early for you to be worried about having only 13 riders in your category.

C) You want to race with "cat 4s" like Kissena's Joseph Mueller? Wink Wink. Guys who drop me on climbs in a climbing heavy race. Trust me, there will be a handful of cat 5s in your race who have been ready to upgrade for months, but who will want to get that one last big moment of glory by winning a stage race before they are forced to upgrade to the 3s. Stay in the 5s until you get to the point, at a minimum, where you feel like you are racing for a top placing. The lessons learned, will be invaluable. You want to know what it feels like to be racing for the win, instead of just hanging in, before you jump to the next level.

amateur stage racing has time cuts because the Bumblefuck Police Department charges and arm and a leg to keep the intersection at Route 10 and Gulliver Lane open

mystery . . . solved

Could i catch a ride with someone? I really don't want to make the 150 mile trip again the day before it haha.

Thanks

You can ride with me on Thurs

I'm also targeting this race - it's fantastic; well run (Dieter's show always is) and hard as heck.

Last year I managed 4th on GC in the 5's and the guys who finished ahead of me all belonged in the 3's including "Angry Santa" who Tore.It.Up.

I haven't been able to find course profiles for day 2 and 3 so if anyone has, can you please link me?

(Jeff isn't kidding about Devils Kitchen either, although it would be more aptly named "Taste the Hatred of Devils Angry Bowel" if you ask me...)

Is a 39 x 28 OK for Devil's Kitchen OK or is a compact a must? I have never used a compact and am reluctant to switch to it for one race, especially because I tend to mash, although I'm convinced it's not efficient most of the time. How long is this very steep climb? The rate mentioned (24-25%), is it for parts of the climb or is it the real average? (that would be crazy). I'm asking because I read that the average is above 12% (with parts higher) at
http://www.roberts-1.com/bikehudson/r/m/climbs/steep/index.htm#Platte_Clove_Rd

I climbed Il muro di Sormano last September with my 39 x 27, max at around 24-25% but average at 14-16%. It was not in a race, which makes a huge difference.

Stephane, allow me to repeat what I said earlier in this post:

"Devil's Kitchen is by far, the hardest climb I have ever done. It's steep and long. I could barely turn over my 39 x 27 and I was already OTB and by myself last year by the time I hit this nasty portion of the day."

You could probably get by with a 39 x 27 (barely), but you won't be sorry to have a compact set-up.

I think I'll go there this week-end with my 39 x 28. Anybody wants to go to Woodstock?

BTW, averages can be very deceiving and I take Marc's and Ryan's advice seriously. According to my friend Hank Schiffman, who climbs like a goat (hey, he weighs 129 lbs...) these are the numbers:
Greene County Clove Platte (Devil's Kitchen) 1.95 1129' 11.0%

Source: http://www.hoha.net/re_regional_grades.html

This seems to corroborate what is stated on a previous page I mentioned

http://www.roberts-1.com/bikehudson/r/m/climbs/steep/index.htm#Glade_Hill

"Over 1100 vertical ft in about 2 miles, including around 900 vertical ft at an average grade over 12% -- some sections steeper. (More like 1400 vertical ft if start lower down gentler farther east)".

One question for Norm and others: does having a goatee help climbing like a goat?

Stephane, I really want to go pre-ride Devil's kitchen but I can't this weekend. If you want to wait til next week I'll go with you.

By the way, I am just like you - never used a compact, and tend to mash too much. Mark and Jeff are 100% right. I did this race last year. After getting 2nd in the uphill TT and being with the leaders over every climb in the race - I literally had to WALK up Devil's kitchen because I couldn't turn over my 39-26. And I weighed 142 lbs at the time.

Its insanely hard

R.

I do remember that fact, which impressed me a lot. This is more important than percentages. Having climbed il muro di Sormano, I tend to think the highest percentages are very damaging, even if you have respites here and there. In the Alps they indicate the average grade on the "bornes kilométriques", you may read 9% two kilometers in a row, but the first one may be quite regular and the second with parts at 5% and others at 13%, which I find more difficult.

I cannot go the week-end of the 23rd because I'll be racing at the Tour of the Hilltowns. Maybe next week (Tuesday?)

Wojciech and I are planning to go to the Catskills to preview some climbs this week-end. Is anybody else interested? As we say in French, "plus on est de fous, plus on rit" '("The more the merrier", but in this case, the French is closer to the reality).

I highly recommend a pre-ride, especially if you have qualms about gearing. DC will make an enduring, er..."impression" on you. I did a preride in my 'usual' setup and then went straight out and bought the biggest, pinkest cassette out there and then rode a compact as well. And I *still* suffered like a mutha on that climb. HR in the 190's which for a 40+ year old is some hard <bleeping> work...

FYI guys - want to talk about ball busters. On the 2nd time up the first big climb at Pawling Stephane told me he was "really mashing and wondering why it was so hard." He got to the top and went to shift it into the big ring and what do you know? He climbed the whole thing in the 53! So if anyone doesn't need the compact crank, it is you Stephane!

Yeah, there's a section at about 20% that goes on for like, 16 miles I think. I remember asking someone "how far to the top" and he said another mile and I started to weep.

(turned out it was less than half a mile to the top - drat!)

The funny thing is that last year when the climb mellowed out to around 12 and then 10 near the top I was thanking my lucky stars. Not often that 10 percent feels so much better than whatever you were doing before!!

Mike: yeah yeah... If I had spinned, my legs would have been fresher and I would have been able to sprint....

Tour of the Catskills veterans : does it make sense to bring a bike with standard gearing and another one with a compact or is a compact preferable for all stages?

Ryan, is that you in the Catskills?

http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.com/images/news/2009/10/08/1255078958041-14fkypiw1jpn9-670-75.jpg

No that guy is still on his bike. He's doing much better than I did.

Plus Ryan I don't see any horses around!

Looks truly Satanic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiTgZHV-zqc

And here are the pros struggling up the climb, including Floyd Landis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI2iQjQJ9_s&feature=related

It looks alot easier than the two times I climbed it. BAck then, there was more patch than road surface. Climbing was bumpy. Descending was skiing a mogul field on a bike. Think I might have used a 39x23 or 25 on my steel Eddy Merckx. With a 27 and a much lighter bike, I'm not sure what I'll do.

Posted By: mugwumpIt looks alot easier than the two times I climbed it. BAck then, there was more patch than road surface. Climbing was bumpy. Descending was skiing a mogul field on a bike. Think I might have used a 39x23 or 25 on my steel Eddy Merckx. With a 27 and a much lighter bike, I'm not sure what I'll do.

Go ahead, Mr. 'I walked to school both ways up hill in the winter," I dare you...no, I double dog dare you to race it only with a 25.