I'll be there

Have you upgraded yet Sean? You can do a lot of damage in the 4's.

Not yet, still need 6 races. Between early season weather and getting sick I haven't gotten to the start line enough. 

SeanMiles said:

Not yet, still need 6 races. Between early season weather and getting sick I haven't gotten to the start line enough. 

Just a thought, in the past I've recommended a somewhat less "severe" version of advice recently recommended by Training Peaks Tim, who says, "Don't upgrade until you win." But in principle I'm in total agreement with him. You're almost there Sean, don't rush it.

Marc Bertucco said:

SeanMiles said:

Not yet, still need 6 races. Between early season weather and getting sick I haven't gotten to the start line enough. 

Just a thought, in the past I've recommended a somewhat less "severe" version of advice recently recommended by Training Peaks Tim, who says, "Don't upgrade until you win." But in principle I'm in total agreement with him. You're almost there Sean, don't rush it.

Don't upgrade till you win.

71 pre-reg for the 1/2/3.  Not a lot of breakaway riders registered thus far.  Could be a good day for a break.

Jules said:

Marc Bertucco said:

SeanMiles said:

Not yet, still need 6 races. Between early season weather and getting sick I haven't gotten to the start line enough. 

Just a thought, in the past I've recommended a somewhat less "severe" version of advice recently recommended by Training Peaks Tim, who says, "Don't upgrade until you win." But in principle I'm in total agreement with him. You're almost there Sean, don't rush it.

Don't upgrade till you win.

Sean can easily win the race in the 4's with his current form, that's why I asked!!

Yeah. I don't think this criteria should apply to the 5s which, w/o any kind of formal development/coaching or safety program USAC wide, is just a right of passage. If winning in the 5s were a requirement I would say that most folks shouldn't race for a year or two after joining a team just so that they might come in well prepared and clean house because languishing in the 5s means exposing yourself to repeated risk of getting crashed out.  Waiting till you win in the 4s ("5s who've raced ten races"…but who typically race safer than 5s) sounds totally reasonable to me.

 I was on the fence, but I think I'll day of registration. 

I'm likely to day-of for the 4s.

Where is everyone?  I watched the time for registration close get updated a couple of times before I finally signed up.  There's a CRCA club race tomorrow, the 5 borough tour Sunday, but anything else in the area, or is it still too early in the season for these to sell out?

I don't see a difference between racing at the front aggressively in the 5's to the 4's, both are crashy. At least in the 5's the idots are down the back.

Getting a result before you upgrade is the go. Also the racing can be harder in the 5's.

This is all a moot point. Sean will win before his 10 races are up

I'm in for Saturday in the 4s. Will do day-of reg.

What's the race plan?

Bruce van-Schalkwyk said:

Where is everyone?  I watched the time for registration close get updated a couple of times before I finally signed up.  There's a CRCA club race tomorrow, the 5 borough tour Sunday, but anything else in the area, or is it still too early in the season for these to sell out?

Bruce, I think you are right. CRCA members love them some club racing in Central Park. I was surprised recently to see that some big names like Weather Channel's Mike Margarite, opted one weekend for the CRCA club race instead of the PP race.

Also, I know that myself and Erika are the only ones from KCC signed up, but Turkey Hill is a great race, with a great history. Some will be there.

But want to hear my conspiracy theories?

1. Too expensive for just another PP race. I'm on a tighter budget this year, and have to be more careful where I put my entry fees. The race/experience as a whole has to add up to what I perceive to be some kind of value. Yes, park racing will always be the "cheapest" game in town when looking at the bottom line, but it's the big picture. FWIW, I'm paying the same entry fee for Turkey Hill and the prize list is $1000 10-deep. Versus, $375 10-deep.
2. Loss of Spring Series in Central Park. A good lead in to spring racing vanished this year. I haven't worked out the details here, and it's probably not related, but it's a thought that popped into my head.
   

JohnMalcolmson said:

I don't see a difference between racing at the front aggressively in the 5's to the 4's, both are crashy. At least in the 5's the idots are down the back.

Getting a result before you upgrade is the go. Also the racing can be harder in the 5's.

Thread's getting crowded, I posted some further explication of my thinking on the upgrade issue over in the mentoring thread if anyone is interested.

I would also choose the CP loop over the PP loop every time, no offense.

I second Vlad here. I like the CP course as well. More variation, and let's face it, the pavement is much smoother.

Both the 35+ and 45+ fields are full for the NJ Masters Crit Championship with a lot of CRCA teams etc represented

Jeffrey White said:

This is all a moot point. Sean will win before his 10 races are up

I'm in for Saturday in the 4s. Will do day-of reg.

What's the race plan?

Good question. I'm at a workshop all day so don't have much time to post anything so maybe some of the other Cat 4s want to chime in with their ideas, goals or plans. 

I still think we should have guys trying to go with it create breaks in the latter half of the race and have the other guys block when a teammate is up the road. I'd love to see a good break stay away. Having said that, I know the odds are against a break having success. 

like last week I plan on trying to get into the finishing sprint to get more points to the masters competition. I am willing to help anyone with their goals and am grateful to anyone who may be willing to help me move up or lead me out in the final lap. 

What do you all think?

I'd like to attack near the top of the hill on the penultimate lap, which should be the second KOM. The idea is to ride wheels of the guys going for points, then drop the hammer after the KOM finish line. For this to work, I'll need at least a couple willing participants for it to stay away. Looking at who's reg'd, I think it can stick, the hard part is just having a diverse group up the road to make it work and keep other teams from chasing. 

Adam Fabian said:

I'd like to attack near the top of the hill on the penultimate lap, which should be the second KOM. The idea is to ride wheels of the guys going for points, then drop the hammer after the KOM finish line. For this to work, I'll need at least a couple willing participants for it to stay away. Looking at who's reg'd, I think it can stick, the hard part is just having a diverse group up the road to make it work and keep other teams from chasing. 

You can benefit from both confusion and people sitting up after the sprint.  If people let gaps open at the start, you can quickly get 10-15 seconds.

mugwump said:

Adam Fabian said:

I'd like to attack near the top of the hill on the penultimate lap, which should be the second KOM. The idea is to ride wheels of the guys going for points, then drop the hammer after the KOM finish line. For this to work, I'll need at least a couple willing participants for it to stay away. Looking at who's reg'd, I think it can stick, the hard part is just having a diverse group up the road to make it work and keep other teams from chasing. 

You can benefit from both confusion and people sitting up after the sprint.  If people let gaps open at the start, you can quickly get 10-15 seconds.

Exactly. On April 4 this was where the race was won, but I was too far back going into the KOM and got caught in the wind between the pack and the break and sat up to regroup. Everyone in that winning group has upgraded, by the way.

I am happy with this plan. I think it can fit well with Patrick's goals. Let's discuss tomorrow.

Let's be mindful the 1st KOM tomorrow in the 1/2/3's.  Perlberg is in the jersey and his squad may be putting a train together that could cause a field split or break.  I say this a lot but it's what I fear most in life...this and scurvy.  
See you in the a.m.
Yack

I'm out. I woke up with a killer sore throat. Good luck today boys. I'll join you for the next one. I encourage some of you to actively discourage the chase after Adan's KOM attack. 

Woah, threw down some serious watts this morning. I did a fair amount of chasing. Didn't really get us anywhere though.

http://tpks.ws/q2e8

There is going to be a lot of commentary on this mornings race.  It was a ton of fun....hoping in the shower...but for now Vlad...my Schwartz is bigger than yours
https://app.strava.com/activities/296613148

Let the record show... While Vlad was at Floyd Thursday getting wind whipped...I was sitting in my bathtub listening to the Training Peaks webinar with a cup of tea.

Pinch flat after hitting a nasty pothole after the 4th lap and I was done.

Thierry Bonnaire said:

Jules said:

Marc Bertucco said:

SeanMiles said:

Not yet, still need 6 races. Between early season weather and getting sick I haven't gotten to the start line enough. 

Just a thought, in the past I've recommended a somewhat less "severe" version of advice recently recommended by Training Peaks Tim, who says, "Don't upgrade until you win." But in principle I'm in total agreement with him. You're almost there Sean, don't rush it.

Don't upgrade till you win.

Sean can easily win the race in the 4's with his current form, that's why I asked!!

It has almost nothing to do with watts, which is the major takeaway from the Peaks Coaching seminar.

If there was ONE SINGLE MISTAKE I made for year after year it was focusing on how hard I could pedal and not not how smart I could race.

The riders aren't any stronger in the 4's but they are marginally savvier. If you can't do well in the 5's nothing much will change in the 4's except your pride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XliISCN8xs

What kept racing through my head today was "no hero moves"...even when the pace slowed on the climb a few times, I held my powder and waited for right moment.  That came when Euri Madera launched after the start finish with 3 to go.  We got a nice gap by the bottom of the hill...looked like about 15 seconds...(mineola bikes, brands rider, Euri and I). The mineola guy decided to pull off right instead if left and as I'm telling him the rotation is left lets keep it that way...Euri and Brands are slipping away... I realize this too late...mineola doesn't and jumps across...I'm gapped & dumbfounded and wondering how I just let that happen.  Those 3 guys were reeled in a lap later.   I feel like I'm out of survival mode in these races and finally thinking about where I might find an opportunity.   I'm thinking riding near the front always is the way to go = rather be gassed and not able to go with a move than be in the back, rested and too far from front to do anything.  If your in the back u have no chance...the longer u are in the back the larger that window becomes.  JP the 2 Vlad's and Keith will have something to say about this morning.  4 man break goes before the intermediate stuff and they scoop up all the points (Somerville can't defend Perlbergs polka dots).  Good doughnuts afterward...