Kissena Forum Archive

L&C Cup

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Registration for March 13th race is open:

https://www.bikereg.com/lccup#Register

Don't forget to also buy a transponder; they'll be required for all PP and Floyd Bennet Field races this year.
The club is working to get transponders for members at a discount 
Spoke with Tom Mains today about next weekend's L&C Cup.

1. Seems like his source doesn't have the transponders to sell him.  He says they won't be for March.

2. He wants to do numbers for the year.  But he won't, at least not this week, do a number distribution in the days leading up to the race.  
*BUMP*

With the first race of the year coming up, Tom needs volunteers to sign up for registration, marshaling and KOM (link is below). Like last year, volunteers get a free race (if you already signed up and paid, Tom will issue you a refund for the fee) or cold hard cash.

Since our name is on the race, we want to make sure we have plenty of volunteers there who can help out  and make sure we have a presence at the races, so even if you don’t plan on racing, coming to volunteer, cheer on teammates and helping out is a great way to spend an early Sunday morning!

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ZYhsbfp1tETy8Je77nle8hfE85e0DcdSQZ0EJJF8R_A/edit?usp=sharing
Tomorrow is not looking like a great day for openers... What is up with the transponder situation? will we not have them for Sunday? Looking forward to seeing everyone out there. 
Transponders are delayed (supply chain issues) so will be used starting in April.  Note that they will be optional for Cat 5 races
Race tomorrow is cancelled due to weather. Just got email. You can transfer your registration to future races. I kinda thought this would happen. Otherwise, I wouldn't have done those brutal Over-Unders this morning. 
First race of the season for me yesterday (and first road race since the fall classic)- I forgot how hard races are. Took like 3-4 laps to get somewhat comfortable in the pack again. On the first KOM, I was towards the back of the pack lost contact so I ended up paying for it by needing to put in a pretty big effort to get back on. After that, I didn't feel great so my objective became to just finish with the main group and help out where I could.

On the second KOM, I led out Greg and took a pretty healthy pull on the front. I think he got pipped at the line but was able to grab a few points. Otherwise try race was pretty uneventful- it was a good first race to shake off some of the rust and get back into it.

BUT! Michael crushed it in the field sprint and took 3rd (2 guys finished off the front) so with a bit more organization internally, we can absolutely make something happen for him!
Having raced on Saturday at Brankbrook along with this being my first 3/4 PP race, I just wanted to survive and finish with the group.  At the first bell I found my legs feeling surprisingly good.  Hit the bottom of the hill in the front few wheels and opened up ~2/3 the way up the hill.  Wasn't to get 1st KOM, but 2nd ain't bad.  Having never done this KOM/sprint stuff, I got a little mixed up on the next bell lap and opened up on the hill again. Afterwards, Matt informed me that the KOMs and sprints alternate bells.  Oh well...

At one point I was moving up the left side and got pinched over the line into the runner's lane.  I thought I had moved back over before moving further up, but apparently the official thought otherwise and gave me a stern talking to.

By the second KOM the rider who broke away for the win was already up the road, so only 2nd and 3rd were up for grabs at the hill.  Matt pulled me up to the front as we passed the zoo and put in a solid pull to get me a little over halfway up the hill.  I opened up and when I checked to see if I had a gap I must have missed the Sanba rider cause he came along side me on the last curve and got me a the line for a 3rd.

Ended up pulling on the front for a bit on the last lap.  Got swarmed at the zoo. Ended up with a pack finish.
This was my second race. I did have a bit of an issue - mud (at least, I hope it was mud) caked in my cleats from helping move the portable restrooms around that morning with Tom and his team. At the start, I couldn't clip in on my right pedal, and I ended up going the whole race without my right side clipped in. Hyper-frustrating, but hey, lesson learned.

Despite the annoyance, I felt pretty strong. I made the mistake of heading to the front of the pack 2-3 times without much of a plan, so I dropped to the back of the pack a couple of times (which gave me the opportunity to angrily slam my shoe against my pedal a few times to try and break off the mud, but no dice). 

Raced with Andrew; he kept a strong position throughout the race (usually in the top third or so of the field). Definitely something I want to emulate for next time. As we neared the hill on the final lap, I saw Andrew head to the right of the pack; I also remembered Michael's advice from JP's tactics talk about preferring the right side of the hill. So, naturally, like a fool I saw an opening on the left side and went for it - the left of the field blocked up pretty quickly.

I couldn't sprint/attack very well with my cleat situation, so I fell behind right at the end. BUT, I did finish with the pack (I think my final position was 25) which was my main goal for this race.

Currently signed for Trooper David Brinkerhoff on April 9, but rather than renting a car, I might cancel and sign up for the next L&C race on Sunday instead. All in all, this was tons of fun, and it was great meeting Andrew and David while seeing the rest of the team before/after the race.

Two takeaways:

  • Aim for better positioning within the pack and stick with it - I'm doing myself no favors by jumping around or staying in the rear
  • Never help anyone for any reason... ever (kidding, but I'll definitely never forget to check my shoes before a race)

After the race, I followed Matt and Greg who helped guide me out of Brooklyn; I finally clipped in on that ride! I was too cowardly to join them to the GWB, but that's an opportunity for next time.
 

Lucarelli & Castaldi posted pictures on their Facebook for anyone interested.
Great reports. I had a somewhat different experience. Was feeling in so-so condition and found myself traveling between the middle and back of the pack. On the 3rd go up the hill (my unlucky number) I carelessly fell off the back with 4 other riders. We eventually banded together and traded pulls for the rest of the race. This was better than finishing things out solo and I averaged around 23/mph in the end. Early on, it seemed like we could bridge to the peloton but were too disorganized. I'm curious what's the best strategy for getting a group of folks to start working together? If we had quickly started trading pulls no doubt we would have bridged. Instead, everyone was looking at each other as if dumbstruck, hoping someone would take the lead and by the time it happened it was too late to bridge. 

Afterwards, I was thinking of joining the group riding to Piermont but got delayed looking for some lost earbuds (of course, they were in one of my pockets). I ended up riding up to GWB and back home in EV to clear my mind and body. The west side was strangely empty for a Sunday, due to the light drizzle, so I rode at a nice clip and took a well-deserved nap afterwards.

Then, in the afternoon, I hit the gym because I'm a masochist.  

This is an age-old question.  getting people to pull can be tricky though it doesn't have to be.  In my experience, the more experienced the racer, the more likely they are to see the situation as it's developing and realize what they need to do to get back to the field. The problem is that many of your cohorts at that moment probably don't have a lot of experience. 

 So my suggestion is to talk loudly and try to cajole people into taking the necessary actions to turn into a cohesive pace line and chase down the field. if you seem as if you're trying to be constructive as opposed to being a jerk, I think people are more likely to help.

 Iit could be as simple as loudly saying “hey!  we could catch the field if we just worked together.  let's work together let's just take 20-second pulls.”  Or something like that. You want to convince them that if they don't catch the field as soon as possible, their race will be over.  

 And you roll to the front and start riding hard without attacking.  You try to control them along the way.  I think people like having someone else as captain of the group so long as it doesn't seem like the person is jerk or is just using them and looking to drop them.

 If someone attacks the group you've created, yell out in annoyance, but don't attack the group. also, tell people that you don't wanna drop anyone on the hills, because lots of people are afraid of getting dropped on the hills. this is a practical suggestion as well, because if people are curtailing their efforts in fear of being attacked on the hill you won't go fast enough on the flats, and if you lose too many people on the hill you won't have enough people to finish chasing down the pack

 The length of the pull depends on the group size. if there are two of you, the pulls need to be between 30 seconds to a minute long each.  with six or more riders, yeah you can possibly do a rotating pace line.  if there are disparities in strength, the stronger riders should pull longer not stronger.

To mirror what JP said, mostly, specially at the amateur level, you need someone to be the leader of the group, and say it out loud -- "let's work together and take pulls" 

Whether off the front or off the back it'll be a challenge, and the first few minutes will chaotic and hard as hell. 
Yes, sometimes the break needs a drill sergeant, but to be honest you've got the deck stacked against you if it's a foursome off the back early in the race. You've self selected for people who are either too out of shape or too new to ride effectively.

I have fond memories of one of my first Cat 5 races where I was clearly one of the strongest in the peloton but had no interest or experience in a pack descent in the park. I sat up thinking "F*ck that! I'll catch them on the flat..." 

Needless to say, it was a long and lonesome ride to the finish DFL. Lesson learned.
^ ...
- position yourself near the front before bottom of hill, so going backwards on climb means 20m back at the top, not 20m off the back. You also avoid having to pick your way through riders going backwards/opening gaps. You might even get the odd push from a team mate ;^)
- be decisive. You see the bunch splitting or a gap opening two riders in front of you, immediately react. If it means going anaerobic, do it. Burning 1 match compared to 10+ minutes of TTT from hell?
- don't tune out. Constantly check in with your pre-race planning self *and stated team goals*: Why am I at the back? I said I was going to hold front third position? Which teammates wheel am I following? Why am I on the front pulling when no one is up the road?
- try shadowing the person who's using the race as an ATM, you'll learn heaps.
Please sign up to help out with registration, marshalling and KOM!

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSf5uujwXktQksGEEgEgfaP4jG1tPM8fZKT6MJaljFPl99fISQ/viewform?usp=sf_link

ALSO if you need a timing chip, please reach out to me so we can get you squared away (if you previously reached out to me, then you're all set)
Looks like it's me, Eloy and Michael in the 3-4s. What gameplan do we want to try to execute? 
I’m in the 3-4 field as well. Happy to help with lead outs, etc if my legs cooperate 
Not a big plan.

To state the obvious, we are racing for Michael who can win the race.

There are 70+ riders in the race, so chances are it will be harder for a rider or small group to stay away.

We keep it simple, stay at the front, specially attentive to the sprint and kom moments. If something does look like it could stay away we have to try to close it. If Michael is not in position we grab some wind to move him up.

In the last race we did an amazing job at getting to the front with one lap to go, but then kinda lost it around the downhill. For Sunday, we do the same, but we fight to keep position. For me that looks like pedaling hard on the hill, even if it means burning a match.

That should help Michael hit the last time up the hill in a good spot. And then it'll golden from there.

Let's go race bikes!!

(Just in case, I do have a full bullet list of excuses, let me know if you need them)
How'd everyone do?

Sorry I was a no-show! Combination of a late night and bad allergies got to me.
3/4s were interesting. The first few laps almost felt neutralized because there was such little pace and no one really seemed motivated to do anything. Because the pace was so low, the pack was 2 lanes wide so moving up was really difficult. On lap 4 or 5 (not remembering at this point), I wanted to see if anyone was willing to try for a break, so I attacked past the temple, but no one was motivated to follow. I had a decent gap but there was no way I could do it solo so I made it to the hill, sat up and go reabsorbed into the pack. After that the next two laps were fast and hard- everything was strung out and almost single file and it seemed like the race was finally on. Then by lap 8, everything was relaxed again.

Coming into the final hill, Pat, Adam and me were on each others wheels and decently positioned midpack (probably should have been further up, but because everything was so wide, moving up was difficult). We hit the hill and Pat pushed a good tempo so that we moved up a bunch of positions on the left side of the hill, but he faded by the top. Michael and I pushed around GAP and finished in the 20s. Nothing to write home about but rubber stayed on the road and there's still plenty of season left
@Matt Budofsky

Obviously, I wasn't there and don't know what sensations you were having.  

That written...

When in this:  "I wanted to see if anyone was willing to try for a break, so I attacked past the temple, but no one was motivated to follow. I had a decent gap but there was no way I could do it solo so I made it to the hill, sat up and go reabsorbed into the pack. "

My personal recommendation is to dial back your pace a bit, something you could manage for another lap or two, and keep going.  

 In my opinion, unless you were saving yourself for the last-lap sprint, there is very little to lose by just rolling out there.  By being off the front, your teammates can surf 5-10 riders back, follow wheels, and save energy.  Keep in mind that the longer you remain off the front, the more likely it is that someone(s) will attack up to you.  And when they do, they're going to be a bit tired, and you can easily dial your effort back and then start riding hard again.  
To add to Matt’s comments: There was a strong wind coming from the west, so it was hard for solo riders to be out there on their own. This was my first park race in nearly a year and it felt good to be back. There were a couple of squirrely riders but overtone stayed upright. I felt pretty good being near the front on the last lap until we got swarmed after the downhill. I made my way back up but then my legs gave out at the top of the hill. Adam, Eloy, Matt and Michael looked good out there. I have some base fitness but will need to work on my top end if I am going to be involved in the finish
@mugwump I felt pretty decent and was sitting a couple watts above FTP (something that I could hold for a good while). Unfortunately, as Pat mentioned, the wind was the killer- without anyone else there to swap pulls with it was a losing battle so I opted to save the energy so I could be useful chasing down other attacks or helping Michael in the finale later on
cross posting here: 

Prospect Park racing resumes this weekend with the next round of the L&C Cup! Come out and race, watch your teammates and get that post race coffee/pastry you’ve been missing in your life!

Link to volunteer is here: 
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScQRxgVcTdaF9sqvzarxiI5Hj8mhwa6hDXr6odQaXN1KmAHfw/viewform (races start at 6am so volunteers need to be there at about 5am).

If you need a chip, please also DM on slack and we’ll get Tom to put one in your race registration packet!
So L&C restarts tomorrow.

We have a pretty sweet 3/4 team:
  • Greg Hoge
  • Colin Stief
  • Matthew Budofsky
  • Patrick Grehan
  • Joe Matunis
  • James Reeder
  • Eloy Anzola
A few notes on racing:
  • Field is at 100 riders, sold out.
  • The chances of breaks staying away will be small.
  • Obvious duh: We still need to be attentive, specially on the that KOM + Sprint lap
  • Ride the front. Top 10 FTW full race.
  • Greg is our leader. He is riding like the hotness. 
  • If you make any effort: Did it help Greg? did it keep you in the front? 
  • If chasing, do not bring the whole pack with you
  • Hold your position on the last lap -- this usually means positioning on the 2nd to last climb and fighting hard on the downhill 
  • Goal is to place Greg in a good spot last time up the hill
  • Communicate, talk to each other
  • Pedal
  • Look Sharp
  • Make it fun, have fun
Let's go race bikes!!

Good luck, pals, I'll see you at reg desk and KOM.
Theme for today's race: teamwork makes the dream work.

Got to the park to help out with reg, so it was an earlier morning than normal for me (also, I'm bringing some bug spray next time, those fuckers were biting me through my bibs...).  With the guys riding for me, I was feeling some pressure and didn't want to mess it up.  My main goal for the first 7-8 laps was conserve as much energy as possible.  Those laps were pretty uneventful.  Bounced around the back half of the bunch trying to stay out of the wind as much as possible.  Sanba had the polka dot jersey and looked to be killin' it for the KOM laps.  After we crested the top of the hill going into the bell lap, we started rounding up the troops.  This is where things got interesting.  As we start the downhill, Eloy takes the KCC train up the left side.  We're headed up front.  About halfway down the hill there's a runner.  Just outside the runner's lane.  Eloy, Colin, and Matt get around him cleanly.  Me?  Well, let's just say the runner and I are lucky to both not be in the hospital...  This puts me solidly in the back half of the pack, but not far enough back and I can shift to the right side for the flat section (this was the faster side today).  I'm stuck in the wind.  I decided to move to the middle of the road and try my luck moving up through the bunch.  I'm gettin' boxed in; I'm gettin' nervous.  As per usual when we hit the approach to the hill, the pace kicks up.  I start maneuvering through the bunch.  Eventually I get to Eloy's wheel, let him know, and he takes me up to Matt and Colin.  We hit the hill as a team like 20-30 wheels back, maybe more.  Gaps are opening up ahead.  Eloy give it everything he's got.  When he drops off, I sprint up to Matt and Colin, yell that I made it back.  Matt drops off after another monster pull.  Colin and I just gotta get to the finish.  We're at ~15th wheel; not great, not bad.  Going through GAP we take the left side.  Today, so did everyone else.  As the sprint picks up, we get boxed in and sit up.  

Overall, I think we did awesome and road sharp as hell.  I'm really appreciative for the effort everyone put it and it shows that we can definitely get results when we want them.  I'd like to think if it weren't for the damn runner, we would have been on the podium.
Quick report: 
  • Today was definitely a ton of fun!
  • Probably the best we raced as a 3/4 team in the last couple of seasons
  • Some chaos ensued on the last lap, so we didn't get the result we deserved. We'll get it next time
  • When the chaos happened, we still managed to regroup and come together. That was just so fun!
  • Colin and Matt rode the front like total pros. Greg delivered on being the protected rider!
Let's go race bikes!
  • Sidenote: Decided to try a Maurten carb drink for the first time ever at the race. That was not a good idea and not fun. Haha. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • I have two or three packets left, let me know if you want it ('cause I aint touching that stuff again)

It was a really great race- everyone looked super sharp. I chased a few attacks and made it into a break. Every team was pretty well represented so out of the 5 of us (Vesselka, TBD, me, Maap and the GF CRCA team) 4 wanted to go for it. We paced up the climb pretty well with a good enough gap that we could build and stay away for a while and then the Maap rider shut it down like a ton of bricks even though he was the one who initiated the attack. Maybe he was tired? Maybe he didn't like the composition? Either way, we tried to move on without him but by the time we reorganized and got around him the field had caught us so that was the end of that.

The last lap was very sketchy between the runner on the downhill and then riders just not holding their lines. Despite that we communicated really well and did what we could with the way things unfolded.

It was probably the best race I've had in the park so can't wait for the next one!