Woah! Farnese, sky, bmc, katoushvzka...and the what i thought was a defunct HTC squad. Nissan-Trek misses out on the split again. So sad...

I laughed really hard once I realized what you meant. Classic!

I also saw a guy from AGR2LaMondiale at registration. Super pro.

Lots of people at the Giro del Cielo this weekend - any Cat 4's still planning to fly the K flag at L&C Sunday?

I had Cielo plans but they got undercut. I'll be at L&C on Sunday.

I gotta defend the jersey. So I'll be there for Sunday. It should be a full field since CRCA isn't doing anything that day, and besides Cielo there is a crit in East Hartford CT and Owasco Flyer if you're willing to travel.

I'm in negotiations....my daughter's b-day party is at 11 am....but figure if I'm home by 8 that's plenty of time to get it together.    I'm still pissed I crapped out after the 2nd sprint last weekend.  

I don't know if I wanna race Cielo anymore. I might be in for L&C.

Anyone in for the L&C 1/2/3's on Sunday, 6/24?

Anyone in for the L&C 1/2/3's on Sunday, 6/24?

I'll may be there JP - I was planning to do Cielo but I'm starting to feel like staying closer to home, in which case I'd do the Alpine TT and then probably the L&C on Sunday.

A couple notes about Zeppelin.

1. Highest power came in two really close spikes. Bridging to the break, then driving it to get that gap.

2. Cornering well is free seconds. Mike and I watched the 55+ races before ours and the two man break if Doug O'Neil and smother just slowly gained time in the compound turn.

3. We, like the 55+ race slowly pryed time on the field. Go faster when the field can't, the same speed when it can.

4. I clipped a pedal for the first time in memory going through the right turn on the end of the home stariaght. I was following the youngest guy in the break. Gulp!

5. Learn to corner better by following someone better and noticing when they begin to pedal.

6. Two teammates in a 5 man break ricks. No need to talk much. Other than Mike made sure we weren't next to each other in line so we could respond to attacks.

7. The only way we could have done it better was 1-2. That's really greedy. We had the end game worked out quietly. Mile rode for me and it was great. It's really hard to let a teammate down. Great motivation.

8. Another crit on Saturday. Giro del cielo. More guys, more rocking.

E

@Mike - did you have power number to reflect on?

in the 1/2/3s this past Saturday (6/16/12), from my seat, a fairly conservative race.  

  

I took the first attack and no one came with.  I did nearly a lap solo until Marc countered.  Nice move.  Sad ending. In the following laps, both Ryan and Joe were pretty active with good additional moves from John, Rene, Lenny, and Keith.  We looked strong and were very active--more so than any other team it seemed.

For the finish, we weren't together nearly enough.  I think we need the guys from the back to move up and up and up until they're within 10 riders of the front.  If you're at the back, your goal is to catch up to another Kissena, then another, then another.  Tell each other where you are, ride by someone if you have the momentum and let him know you're coming.  If people are feeling beat and can't do much, please say so during the race--this is super helpful to know and we can adjust what we do based on this info.

The race was on the faster side, but not brutally fast.  There were groups getting away and gaps, but people weren't committed to riding and the chaser weren't letting the gaps grow.  26.5 was the average speed, fast, but it can be 27+.

I've been trying to figure out why the race was so negative.  Two things pop up. One is that several teams were fully committed to the intermediate prizes.  That was Somerville, Mengoni, Metra, Axis, and Major Taylor.  Another is that several teams were just happy to be there (Wonder Wheels comes to mind).  Another is that guys were holding their fire for Sunday's races (Jermaine Burrowes comes to mind, and Brian Breech was definitely grounded).  And another few strong riders definitely weren't riding smart.  

Also, a few of our guys dropped out.  This happens.  I understand that.  But those who drop out, need to tell those in the race this has happened.  Stand on the road and yell at us so we know it.  Maybe even do it two laps in a row so you're sure we know.

Thinking ahead to future races, we've got the strength (even if you felt beat, you'll be better next time), now we just need better communication and coordination.  Staying closer to the front helps.  So, too, does giving updates of what  you're seeing in the race and how you're feeling.  If you're realizing you don't have much left, figure out what you can do to help others.  For the better attackers, it's probably covering moves, for the better sprinters, it's helping pilot another one of our sprinters.  

Also, we need a plan for beating the intermediate sprints.  What I saw from the other riders on Saturday really kills breakaway chances. I'm thinking we need to send someone off when we get a bell for a KoM or hot spot.  This, if we get another rider or two with our guy, will force the leadout trains to work harder and both tire them out and force the field into a longer line.  THen, we have to have one or two guys ready to attack after the sprint/KoM occurs.  This means staying close to the front and then as the last leadout guys blow up follow the sprinters without sprinting.  They'll get a lead but blow up and then our guys(s) just ride though the people who finished sprinting.  Also seems that the last hot spot is always at three to go.  I hope this changes, but we should expect it for at least the next race.  

I was wondering about JPs first lap attack. I don't think it's a good
idea to have our strongest guys, be the first-lap attacker. I mean, it's
great for getting the field going, but if the counter that inevitably
comes is a dangerous one, (instead of my pansy ass effort) then we have
just eliminated one of our potential placers from a potential
race-winning break.



As I mentioned in an earlier post, Joe and I got caught behind a Di2 guy
whose chain dropped. Otherwise, it was my intention to be the early
guy. And I was, just not as early as JP. The irony here, is that if JP
had not attacked, it would have been easier, and I would have gotten to
the front earlier. As it was, it took me until the shoot to get into
proper fighting position.



I can't believe I'm going to say this, because I usually hate being
touched during a race, and usually don't need it, but after I countered
and was dropping backwards like boulder in water, I missed Ragot's
gentle hands on my ass, keeping me in the race. I didn't expect anyone
to give me a push, but just keep a heads-up for your teammates in case
they need a hand.



While I understand and agree with JPs assessment that we need more and
better communication during the race. I don't really agree that guys who
drop out need to stand by the road announcing that they're standing by
the road and not racing.



My feeling is that, you are either at the front and being helpful, or
not. If you don't see your guys then I just assume one of three things.



1) They are suffering, hanging on for dear life in the last 1/3 of the race

2) They have mechanical-ed out.

3) They are doing their own thing



In all three cases, it's not really relevant to what I need to be doing
at that moment during the race. I mean, it helps me properly direct my
snark-tastic comments in race reports and post-race bitch sessions, but
it's relevance during the race itself is limited. I mean, when I was out
of the race after my one effort, did it really matter if you knew that I
was out because I flatted, or because I suck? I mean, I'm super bummed I
couldn't be there to help road captain, because I feel like we could
have used one.



Somewhere, I can't find it now, Malcolmson posted something about the finale and better communication. I can't find it, so forgive me if I don't totally nail down his actual points. But one thing I want us to believe in, is that was can be sprinting for money! I'm not saying that we're going to be podiuming in a group gallop against the guys who are podiuming currently, but a 5th-10th place is totally possible with some focus.

While it was great to see John M. off the front with just a few laps to go, I was wondering why he was burning matches so close to the finish. In retrospect, I realize that I'm the only one who designated himself one of the team's finale sprinters, so maybe John wasn't feeling like headbutting his way to the front at the end of the race. If you scroll back a bit, I suggested that our three sprinters, Lenny (the only guy who self-nominated to be a sprinter), Rene (assumed, by me) and John (also assumed) be in good communication with the closing laps. I even suggested a leadout order.

I understand JPs move in the last lap, getting to the front early-ish and starting the leadout. Normally and with practice this is going to be a good move. However, right now, it's too much to assume our sprinters are going to be in good enough position to take advantage of such a move. I mean, I have said it before, "it's the sprinter's responsibility to be in good position when it counts," but the more I think about it, the more I think we need to take care of each other a little better.

A few years ago, in Central Park, I was in fair position coming out of horseshit alley. JP and Tad flew by me like a freight train, which got them to where they needed to be, but left me a little stunned and struggling with the field/positioning aspect. If there had been a little heads-up shout, and/or pause, I think we could have been three at the front, leaving one to sprint for money instead of what we got that day. Which was bubkus.

Now shit happens, I get that. But we haven't earned our right to be upset by a non-result in a bunch sprint, if we don't properly prepare and attempt the effort. And for me, that means at some point, near the end, giving up on the final lap heroics and breakaway attempts and committing to getting our business together for a sprint against Anthony Lowe (doesn't that sound fun?)

Overall though, I thought Kissena looked really good out there, active an in almost every move. Except the one with Will Schneider...I think JP would have taken a
samurai blade to his belly if the one move Will made all day stuck and
won.





We're getting to the point where we're fine tuning things. We've got most of the basics down pretty good here and that is a very good thing. Plenty of time to get even better!

All:

I'm in for Sunday's (6/24/12) Race in the 1/2/3.  I see that both Dave Vollbach and Dan Strika are in as well.  Dave's first 1/2/3 I believe and Dan is returning from injury.  

Im in

I'll be in the 4 race.

Looks like the Cielo might thin the fields this week - only 48 reg'd in Cat 4 so far.    here's who's currently reg'd to roll from Kissena:

I'm on the fence for Sunday's L&C.  Will probably be there for the 1-2-3.

Lenny,

I believe that Adam will be joining us for the Cat 4 fun party.

Looks like the plan for this week is once again dominate the sprint and keep Alfonso Torress to getting fewer points than I have in the sprint. If I get both sprints this week, it will be virtually impossible for anybody to catch up and win the sprint competition.

Since Dave V is now a 3, and Jeff C is rockin' the Giro del Cielo we've got nobody in the hunt for KOM, so we shouldn't have to do anything for those laps.

We also should be able to pull off one more leadout at the end and get 5-6 of us at the front and get a sprinter into muffin money.

Last week the 4s pulled off a beautiful lead out for the second green jersey sprint. Given that the Dan has a death grip on the jersey, I suggest we put our energies into a different strategy: let's go for the WIN!

If you want to know what to do, check out the lead out thread on the forum. First, we need someone to step up to be designated sprinter . I nominate the Kaiser, but if someone else fancies his chances speak up and if we have enough workers we can lead out both.

The key to success YOU. We need a half dozen guys to sacrifice themselves to Kissena glory and muffin money. I'll be the first to do so.

Let's face it, the last lap can be fast and it can be difficult to move to the front because everyone else wants to do the same thing. So, if you have wanted to move to the front but have found it difficult, do what I saw Adam doing last week: conserve. Hang out in the back and keep your matches ready for the last lap. Move up NO LATER than between the climb and descent of the hill on the last lap.

The sweeping bends before the downhill provides an opportunity to move up, but if you find it difficult to move up you should start doing so earlier. I have enough fitness that I am going to work to get into a break mid-race, but knowing that 95% of cat 4 races end in a field sprint I am prepared to spend the rest of the race recovering and saving myself for the lead out.

I'll say it again. We can totally go for the win. Commit to it now, you won't regret it in the morning!

I am totally down for the Kissena train to finish for a giant W at the end.

Patrick is right it can be challenging to move up on the last lap. You need to start moving up on the back side of the course, well before the speeds start ramping up.

We should plan on lining up on the RIGHT side of the field. The reason for this. Most of the field moves over to the left for a shorter line, and there are more openings on the right to move up. So move over to the right side of the field as the bell lap starts, and look for other Kissenas as you're moving up, let them know that you're picking them up and moving up. If somebody comes by you, hop on their wheel and start moving up with them, and communicate that you're there. They can't see you and they're focused on what is ahead of them. Talk to the guy in front of you, and pass information up to the guy in front if you if somebody behind passes something up to you.

Right on Patrick. Good tips on moving up.


Remember Eric's words - there is no glory in finishing top 30.
Better to use your last bit of energy to participate in getting a team
placing then participating in the mid pack sprint for 28th. It's safer too.

So if you are spent and have just enough energy to finish with the pack, use it instead to help in the leadout and then cruise in knowing you gave everything to the team effort. Even if you only have enough left to move up to the front, take a look around and if there are teammates nearby, use your last bit to drag them forward.

We should have 5-6 guys at the front after the downhill. If you think that doesn't mean you, you're wrong.

That said, races develop in all sorts of strange ways and everyone has their good and bad days.

BTW, I think Dan is not quite home free yet but we definitely have enough fire power to get him points and provide a lead out at the finish.

I'm down, I'm not feeling too good but we'll see how it goes tomorrow, I'm willing to help and empty the tank.

I'll be there too. Fitness and confidence amongst sketchy Cat IV fields hasn't been so hot this year. My plan is to patrol the front and work on not getting psyched/sketched out. Will obey any race oriented commands when the need arises.

If anybody doesn't feel like racing, please help Charlie as the marshal captain.

Sorry I've been out of this convo - I've been on vacation until yesterday.

I also have eyes on a mid-race break - it seems like following (or contesting) a KOM immediately with a hard attack could work.  We made a half-assed impromptu  attempt at it last week, but a coordinated version could actually happen...

I am going for the sprint regardless of race circumstances. I will freelance unless I see designated leadout guys saving themselves for the win. It is totally up to you guys. I freelanced for second and fifth in the last two Prospect races. If you feel this merits saving yourself for a really nice leadout in the end, again, it is your choice. I would be very grateful.