Gwynna Smith said:

Marc, you okay with aerobars on this ride?

As long as you/they/he/she don't/doesn't use them while riding with the group. Aerobar pacelining/TTT is some advanced stuff, and really can only be done if EVERYONE on the ride is on them...and skilled.

Marc Bertucco said:

Gwynna Smith said:

Marc, you okay with aerobars on this ride?

As long as you/they/he/she don't/doesn't use them while riding with the group. Aerobar pacelining/TTT is some advanced stuff, and really can only be done if EVERYONE on the ride is on them...and skilled.

Also, depending on those bars, but if they are like mine, they get in the way when I'm sprinting and/or climbing out of the saddle. And one of the things I want to work on with folks is good body mechanics when climbing and sprinting.

Marc Bertucco said:

Marc Bertucco said:

Gwynna Smith said:

Marc, you okay with aerobars on this ride?

As long as you/they/he/she don't/doesn't use them while riding with the group. Aerobar pacelining/TTT is some advanced stuff, and really can only be done if EVERYONE on the ride is on them...and skilled.

Also, depending on those bars, but if they are like mine, they get in the way when I'm sprinting and/or climbing out of the saddle. And one of the things I want to work on with folks is good body mechanics when climbing and sprinting.

I think this is all a polite way of saying, "There is a time & place for clip-on aero bars - this is not it."

Darwin…….

@marc thank you, but i won't be joining today..

Good times today, thanks Marc and John M. I hope this isn't the last one, really insightful and great to do drills with some of the club's most accomplished racers. Y'all missed out today!

Thanks to all who attended yesterday's ride. Special thanks to John Malcolmson for offering up great suggestions, advice and leadouts while working on our sprints!

We started out the ride the traditional KCC group ride route, with me at the front (meaning absolutely no 350-watt blasts away from the bridge up that first rise), then turned onto suburban side streets where John and I took turns offering up advice and leadouts for a few rounds of sprint practice. Dove down off the ridge taking in some fast right and left turns working on good form, motored a bit back on the "low road" before I took a mysterious right, then another right, then left at the fork in the road and we climbed and climbed into crazy mansion-land, before bombing back down and then up for more gradual climb to 9W where we did a little rotating paceline action to get us back to the bridge.

Anyway, always feel honored whenever folks show up to one of my rides, and yesterday was no exception. Thanks again! I hope everyone got at least one good "take-away" for them to think about/practice in future rides.

Eloy recently commented:

"I always kinda struggle with 'base in February', basically the plans calls for 3:30 hours of total riding over this weekend (and 7 hours next weekend) which would be trivial on easy weather, but with this winter, I guess we just do our best on our trainers."

When unexpectedly forced indoors due to weather and/or road conditions, I think it's important to understand that because you were scheduled for say, 3 hours of endurance riding outside, that it is not necessary to replicate that exact saddle time on the trainer. In fact, doing as much as 75% of the outdoor time indoors might actually be too much depending on where you are in your training program.

When riding outdoors with a group, you've got hills, you've got drafting, you've got coasting. If you haven't already noticed, the difference between your average power and NP on an outdoor ride is going to be so much bigger than an indoor, say endurance and/or tempo ride. And that's because you are just pedaling more and more consistently on a trainer than when out on the open road. I know, duh right? But take that thinking to the next level and...

...give yourself a break, and cut that 3 hour ride down to 90-120 minutes (MAX, if you must) on the trainer. The quality of those 90 trainer minutes is going to compensate for the reduction in outdoor saddle time. And you will stay on that good training track.

ALTERNATIVELY, check in with your coach and see about getting a few "go-to" indoor workouts that you can sub in when forced indoors. Or at a minimum, some guidance on how to structure an "impromptu" indoor workout to best replicate the goals of the previously scheduled outdoor ride.

Yacks recently commented:

"My power files are a reflection of me = a total mess.  Having some trouble with my Stages meter dropping signals and I haven't been able to complete the workouts (work, family and general oldness getting in the way).  For Vald you need a diagnostic scalpel...I'm more of machete job in that any advice will be better than leaving me to my own devices.  To support this, I did Wednesday's  workout today and just realized it."

I shared this advice (and self-reminder, if I'm honest) with a few riders on a recent group ride and think it's worth repeating.

Consistency in your training is going to be more important that nailing every workout on every day as written.

Now obviously, if you can get to all your workouts as written all the time, that's going to be best. But for guys like you and me, and other racers with families, that's basically impossible. Shit comes up and we have to do the best we can with what we have. Keeping our families running on all cylinders is ALWAYS going to be more important than any workout or race or whatever, and sometimes that means the workouts suffer. You are first and foremost a father and a husband.  (Or hardworking employee, or student, or...you get what I mean.)

This obviously doesn't necessarily preclude good, smart and regular training and racing. However...

I just don't want you, or anyone else to feel discouraged if you fail to hit all your training targets on a given day or week. Just get on that bike and do the best you can with what you have. The best you can with the time you have, the best you can with the energy you have.

I remember so many times in the last few years, where I'd have a great mini block of training, maybe a stretch of 3 or 4 or 6 days in a row where I did everything I was supposed to, and then the next two weeks were a shit-show where I hardly rode at all. Some days I had "good excuses" other days I was just lazier than I should have been. But what I knew then, (but kind of ignored) and have recently rediscovered is that it is more beneficial that I'm on the bike more days than I'm not, doing something, anything, than doing nothing at all.

Growing up, I took a lot of music lessons. And EVERY music teacher I ever had always said to me, "I'd rather have you practice every day for 15 minutes, than 2 hours the night before your lesson."

For example, this week, when I looked at the clock on Tuesday, added up the interval and rest time and realized I was never going to be able to get in all 3 of my LT intervals done before I had to go to work (and that doing anything other than lying on a couch after a day on my feet in the ER is impossible), I resolved to focus on doing just 2 of them as best as I could.

Would it have been better if could have done them all? Obviously. And are there things I can do next week to tighten up the rest of my life to better fit in my workouts? Absolutely. But a year ago, I might have looked at the clock, realized I couldn't get in the full workout and said, "fuck it I'll just do the workout later." And later might never come.

So, just stick with it. Don't get too discouraged, don't beat yourself up too badly (just enough to encourage you to try to squeeze more focus/time out of the time you do have next week) and do the best you can to stick to your training plans.

Parenthetically, if you find week after week after week after week you are not able to complete your scheduled workouts despite your best efforts, then it might require some adjustments to a plan so that you can hit those target times/effort levels.

Grant's Tomb Criterium Racing Workshop.

One of my favorite races of the year is coming up on Saturday March 14. In preparation, if interested, we can get together on the race course on the morning of Saturday March 7 or Sunday March 8.

Once on course we will review the racing lines on both long and short courses. Practice cornering (as traffic allows), the finish line sprint, discuss pre-race preparation, review fundamental to advanced techniques and tactics and more.

Workshop open to all (not just registered racers). Post your preferred date here or in the "Grant's Tomb" thread. I'll finalize arrangements by Thursday of this week, to help you better plan your weekend.

Recently, reading some posts about the toughness of this winter, the difficulty getting in quality training, and having just watched a network broadcast of Hot Tub Time Machine, I wanted to share a thought with you as we ride into spring. As always, it's my opinion, take it or leave it.

A good winter of training can have a positive and long-lasting impact on your road racing season. But if you've had trouble because of weather or life getting in the kinds of miles and efforts that would have seen you flying this season, all is not lost.

Winter "off season" starts today!

Just because the racing season has started in earnest, doesn't mean you have to derail the high quality, controlled miles that solo training will afford you. Consider taking a pass on racing in March, April and even May too. If that seems too draconian, then carefully chose your events, how you approach and compete in those events, and be mindful of your "exit strategy" as it relates to the following week's training plan.

Quality versus Quantity!

We're fortunate to have lots of road racing opportunities (not to mention track, cross and MTB) well into September (and beyond for cross), and I would guess if you enter June, July and August, full of motivation and fitness, you won't have minded skipping out on the notoriously uneven and unpredictable spring racing scene.

Top quality racing performances require some measure of sacrifice, perhaps holding off on racing too much, too soon, is one of the sacrifices you make this season.

Coach Tim from Training Peaks posted some solid advice for racers as they line up for the first few training races of the season. Namely, "get and stay in front." Today I want to relate that advice specifically to the racing as it unfolded in Prospect Park.

Too often, racers don't pay attention to that invaluable advice because, honestly, often, you can get away with poor positioning and still end up having a pretty decent day, finishing in the main pack even if you are spending too much time in the back 1/3 of the field. And that is an extremely bad and hard racing habit to break once you get comfortable racing that way.

But if there were more days like today at Prospect Park where the winds were gusty, angry and unforgiving, I bet more of us would pay more attention to positioning.

The 1/2/3 race started out gentile enough. The winds had already made themselves known, and racers were playing it conservatively for the first few laps. A small move gets off the front and stays there for 2 or so laps, gaining about 30-45 seconds.

And then it happened, after spending the early laps paying close attention to my position, I let a bizarre combination of restlessness and inattention get the best of me and when the big guns ripped shit up and put everyone in the gutter, and the field was blowing up spectacularly before my very eyes, I was too many groups back. I leap frogged riders and eventually ended up in a group that initially was motivated and working hard to catch the main peloton.

Soon it was all over, more passengers connected with our group and our race was over. Yeah, we technically finished the race, but we were out of contention. And why? Because our positioning in the field SUCKED. Yeah you needed good VO2 power to survive the gutter ball sections, but if Jens Voigt were at the back of the pack when things started to shred today, he might have been dropped too. Okay, maybe not Jens...but you get my point.

Positioning is critical even on days with nary a gentle breeze to blow kisses upon your ruddy cheeks. If you are in front of the field, you put yourself in position to respond to moves promptly, you put yourself in position to sprint for glory, you put yourself in position to survive a tough climb that you never could before.

Yacks, who recently flatted out of the L&C race posted a question for Tim about training for the demands of this race based on his power files. I look forward to reading Tim's response, but in the meantime...

Yacks mentioned in the L&C thread that he averaged 317 watts for 20 miles. And honestly, I'm still kind of freaking out about this number.

JP is oft quick to point out that it's problematic to compare power numbers from rider and bike to bike because of differences in power meter brands, calibration and rider weight. But I'm still going to do it.

And if Yacks is significantly more than 161lbs, then maybe that answers the mystery, but both Yacks and I have a Stages PM and for 1/2 the race, we were basically in the same race and yet, my best 40 minutes of the race? 264 watts.

Chris, my gut says, I think you were just working too hard.

Surviving that race, and any hard race, is ultimately about position and careful application of power. Yes, you have to have a baseline of fitness, you have to stick with your training plans. But if you have 317 watts for 20 miles, you've got all the fitness and strength you need to compete in park races. No question there.

But come race day, knowing when to gun it, and knowing when to recover is going to be your next challenge. It's hard. In 4 races this year, I got it right once. The rest of the time? Nope.

FWIW, In my training plans, I am often tortured by LT to VO2 carryover intervals. They totally suck and I often curse my coach after the second interval (they kind of start out, not that bad, but sneak up on you in a really nasty way). But energy system wise, this kind of interval has helped me survive some tough moments in the racing season already. The ability to hit a few minutes of VO2 and then "recover" at LT. It's a cycle that is repeated over and over again during the course of a race. Especially in cross races.

Addendum to the above post. That race where "I got it right?" The Coxsackie snowpocalypse race where I finished 20th. My best 40 minutes there? 251 watts or 3.5 watts/kg. This is obviously not an impressive number; rather a reminder to us all that while watts is watts, there is so much more to mass start road racing than being able to crank out that electricity.

Marc, I don't think you're wrong; good positioning will SMOKE raw power in any race that isn't more or less straight up.

I've been the owner of both great watts and great handling ineptitude and the first was never enough to make up for the latter.

(Still isn't fwiw)

Marc,

Great comments.  I am staying over on my board but I sent email to Yack asking what power meter he is using as there is a few things about the data that does not look correct.  Stages is a good solid device, but is known to have some issues.

Coach Tim of Training Peaks has put together an outstanding webinar with two of the most successful cycling pros ever. Moninger is one of those pros who could have been a Tour de France racer, and not pack fodder. He's raced everything under the sun in this country from crits like Chris Thater (the last time I pinned  on a number and raced "with" him) to major stage races. Sign up, it's free, and as far as I can tell, you don't have to be a TP client. Here's the official invite:

"Join us on Monday, April 27th at 8:00pm EDT for our "Racing Tactics of the Pros".  To make sure you get the best advice available, I asked a few PCG coaches to join us so we have 2 time Olympian, National and World Champion Amber Neben and the winningest US Pro ever to race, Scott Moninger.  Between these two, you have over 450 pro victories.  Great session focused on learning from the pros.  It is free, just sign up here:  https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/70681370516233985 as spots are limited."

Marc is correct - this is open to all Kissena members. Don't have to be a Peaks Coaching client.

Recently the "should I upgrade" question has surfaced again while talking about one of our newest and stronger riders. I thought I'd offer up a further explication of one of my earlier suggestions in that thread.

My thoughts below are focused on the road racer, specifically riders from Cat 5 through 3. While the principles are the same, things get a little more complicated and less clear cut when it comes to cross racing, for example. Also upgrading from Cat 2 to 1 has it's own issues, but at that point USA cycling requirements and relative racing demands in that category is a fine filter.

Also, when Tim was talking about his strong Cat 1 who wanted to be pro, well, that's a whole different kettle of fish and using it as an example sort of muddied the waters a bit.

So back to OUR focus. The Cat 5/4/3 looking to upgrade...

Sean, or any strong new rider's form is almost besides the point. There are important lessons to be learned, namely, how to race at the front, how to place, how to win, that are best learned through experience. And that experience becomes, I would say, at first progressively harder (from 5 to 4). But then the learning curve/difficulty levels start to jump more severely. I think some of the guys who upgraded from 4 to 3 in the last few seasons can attest to that.

Part of what I think is holding some of you back from agreeing with this philosophy is colored by our unique local racing scene, which at times can be fickle and dawdling. Sean, and not to pick on Sean, this goes for any strong new rider, could honestly finish in any number of "P 1/2/3" park races. Of that, I'm fairly certain. But when you skip steps (and I'm suggesting that upgrading too soon is skipping steps), all you really do is get a bit fitter, and learn a little better how to ride hard a little longer than maybe you could before. You just miss out on learning how to RACE.

I think once you travel to other regions, do other kinds of racing, then it becomes more apparent why many of us suggest a waiting period before upgrading.

I understand the safety argument, but I've always thought that was a bit of a red herring. I don't think cat 4 races (especially cat 4 races filled with cat 4s who upgraded too soon) are appreciably safer than cat 5 races. But I don't have any stats or recent experience to back that up. So I won't push back too hard here on this point.

That said, my own version of the Training Peak's "rule" of upgrading is less "severe" than Tim's. It goes more like this:

Don't upgrade until you are at least:

1. A guaranteed top 10-15 finisher whenever you line up to race
2. A frequent top 5-finisher
3. A sometimes podium-finisher
   

I posted this question over in the Peaks thread, but cross posting here to get other feedback as well -- how have people handled rest weeks that are scheduled a week or so before a taper week for an A race? Do you stick to the rest schedule then continue the taper the following week, or do you train, then use the taper week as a rest week?

This week is supposed to be a rest week, but I'll be tapering for KSR next week. I also have a rare Tuesday where I can easily make it down to Floyd and get in an extra training race, likely my last before Killington.

How have you guys handled similar schedules in the past, and do you have any suggestions?

Adam,
     Saw Tim's advice.  Makes sense.

     Since you're doing Killington next week, my own suggestion would be to take this week as a rest week, put in three hard hard days this weekend, probably Fri-Sun, and then mix days off with openers next week.  Think of it as rest, stage race like efforts, then taper.

     You're not alone in having trouble with easy days and rest weeks.  I've had a few coaches of pro riders tell me they prescribe more riding than they think is right in the week leading up to a big race because they know the riders have trouble resting and they'd rather give them something than have them go deep on their own design.

     May I recommend trying to fill up the rest days with activities you might otherwise put off or are things you'd really like to do so you don't feel you're "wasting" the time?  Like house cleaning or going out to a movie or meal.  This way you'll think less of your riding and more about the activity you're enjoying.

I like that idea, JP. Taking Tim's advice, I took Monday and Tuesday as rest days. Today I followed the plan and did an hour of tempo. I was planning to stay on plan tomorrow, then maybe rest Friday. Weekend riding would stay according to plan.

Following week I would rest Monday, then scale back Tuesday, Wed, and Thurs, dialing back the time and the intensity (1 hr instead of 1.5 for instance). Thoughts?

Also, for what it's worth, instead of riding yesterday afternoon I napped. It was awesome.

I agree with both Tim and JP. I think you've gotten some good specific suggestions.

I think it's really important to consider how much rest and recovery you are getting not only leading up to your big event, but in general. Without proper recovery, either naps or active recovery spins you aren't giving your muscles a fair chance to rebuild from your muscle tearing (literally and figuratively) efforts earlier in the week/cycle.

I think it's really easy for guys to go out and hammer in the days leading up to their A-priority event. They want to "test" themselves, have that confidence building hard ride, but if you do it too close to the race then you risk not recovering in time for your event. You should always err on the side of "over rested" than over tired. ESPECIALLY when contesting a multi-day stage race.

Ultimately, nothing you do in the week leading up to your A-priority race is going to make you stronger for the weekend. Those hard efforts on Wednesday and Thursday aren't going to make you better on this coming Saturday/Sunday. But they might tire you out. So...

Yes, do openers, yes, don't spend all week napping, but no don't pummel those legs before A-priority events.

Definitely agree that the week before isn't the time to try and add any fitness. I guess my question is around handling rest this week. Should I be doing recovery spins? Or just staying off the bike all together? The weekend is another big question mark -- how much do I ride, and at what intensity?

Recovery spins are, in general, preferable to staying off the bike altogether. The key here is to give yourself an actual recovery spin. No work, just spinning. No endurance, no tempo. Grandmothers on CityBikes should pass you.

So, for example...say you are coming off a hard racing training weekend...

Monday 45 minute easy spin. Do this by yourself. Don't be tempted to ride someone else's "easy." Maybe you go for a spin with a non-cycling friend. That will keep you in check.

Tuesday. If you are still feeling tired, then this is the day to take off the bike. STRETCH. Do some push ups, sit ups.

Wednesday. Longer/harder effort. Now if this is the week prior to the weekend of BIG RACE, then keep it endurance paced. Say, 3 hours. No LT, no tempo. ENDURANCE.

Thursday. Easy spin if this is the Thursday before your big weekend. If not this will typically be another work day. Maybe sprints, maybe VO2

Friday. Openers before the weekend of racing. If it's before a big travel weekend (remember back to the webinar with the pros), then this is your last chance to make sure you have all your gear ready to go. All your foods, do the laundry, pack, coordinate travel meeting times with family/teammates/whomever. So then your openers are going to be done in the context of a ride no longer than 90 total minutes. If it's NOT the big weekend, and it's a training weekend, then you might be doing an actual workout on this day. I've been doing a lot of "real workouts" on Fridays this year so far namely because I haven't hit my A-priority events yet.

As far as how hard to hit it this weekend? The weekend BEFORE Killington? I personally would shred yourself in a race or group ride on Saturday, then another ENDURANCE paced longer ride on Sunday.

If you shred on both days, then that might put you too far in the hole leading into Killington.

IMPORTANT NOTE: This resting/peaking/openers is tricky business for everyone. The longer you stick with the sport, the more you will discover what works for YOU. JP for example, typically needs/wants more work on his openers day than I do. His Friday rides in the park are too much for me. But they work for him.

Adam,
     Assuming you take this as a rest week, put in a hard fri-sun, and then are looking at the countdown, I'd approach the five days before Killington this way...

Monday.  Ride or not is a tossup.  If I were doing it, I'd probably ride rollers with no resistance for 30 minutes.  

Tuesday.  Probably an hour total.  I'd probably put in a few V02 max efforts of 3 minutes each with complete recovery in between.

Wednesday.  Probably hit rollers for a half hour or noodle on the road for an hour.

Thursday.  similar to Tuesday.  Probably do a set of sprints starting from 20mph, like 5,  with complete recovery in between.  Not sure of the length.  

Friday.  an hour of spinning,  probably towards high endurance pace.  I'd do it before the drive if possible.  If Saturday were a TT, I'd probably throw in one or two all-out 1m efforts.  But since you're starting with a road stage, you don't need to dig that hard.

After getting stuck behind some bad wheels at the Wilmington Grand Prix, Jeff White recently asked, "As an aside, how does one drop a wheel last lap? You have one job. One job."

In the closing lap of a crit things get, busy. And while we talk about how important position is during the course of the race, the fact of the matter is that it is even more so at the end of a race.

Consider the fact that you've got a pretty wide range of rider "experiences" around you going around those turns. First, you've got the guys who want to win. You want to be on their wheels. Duh. But then there are others.

• There are the guys who have been on the rivet all day and when their legs are asked to respond to a bump in pace/activity, they simply can't.
  
  
• There are the guys who, despite racing solidly all day, categorically refuse to contest a sprint finish, and will sit up conveniently right in front of you every time. (This happens in our park racing a lot.)
  
  
• There are the guys who will try for the first couple of turns in the last lap, but realize they have no shot at the win, don't care about [X]th place (and don't consider the fact that if they stick with it, they might actually get [X]th) and sit up.
  
  
• And then there are the guys who have the right mentality, but just don't have it. Maybe they were weak in the turns, but strong on the straights where they closed up the gaps during the race. Or maybe they were strong on the turns but weak on the straights. IN THE CLOSING LAPS YOU HAVE TO BE GOOD EVERYWHERE
  
  
• And then for every one of the guys mentioned above, there's a good guy sitting on his wheel. And you're on his wheel, and that gives you two dudes to come around.
  

My point here is that there are a lot of ways for you to get gapped at the end of a race. It's why I always say, that one of the biggest slices of your "energy" pie will be served at the end of a race. Maybe second only to that "first slice," depending on who/where you are in any given race.

And so while sitting 20th wheel may have been a safe spot during 85% of the race, in the last lap, just about the only way you can guarantee not getting gapped in the last lap is to be 5th wheel or better in the last couple of turns. (And depending on the course, sometimes the real race is to be first to/through the last corner.)

Jeff, keep at it. This experience not only physically, but probably more importantly, mentally will make you so, so much better come Memorial Day weekend.

Just saw the official results. If I had bothered to sprint at the end, I would have gotten the last money spot. Oooooops.