Kissena Forum Archive

Mentoring

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mperlberg said:
Bump. Prospect park recon tomorrow. 4:45-6:45 come whenever you can get there.
Tried to leave the office early today, but looks like I'm going to miss out.  Hope to ride with some of you all this weekend.
@Marc_Bertucco - great that you're going to make a track comeback! You could certainly teach me a thing or two, certainly in bunch races. I'd also love to get myself to T-Town. I'm a Masters this year so would be well up for going on a Sat. My only drawback is a lack of transport to get there...@eragot - I am itching to get you back on the track again - tho it sounds like you don't need much persuasion!

@Edwin Ortiz - great that you want to give track a go - I'm sure you're going to love it! It's great having the velodrome on our doorsteps. The bike is the easy part ;-) As the guys above say, we can get you fixed up with a loaner easy enough. They should also be available on race days (we had one on standby for the State champs last year...long story) when it comes to wanting to give racing a go too.

@Josh - I'll start a separate thread about the beginners day and bikes etc. when I get my head around the dates.
@kieranleahy. I have car. You'll have to leave early for Tuesday racing. I'll show you how to mass start!

I'm working on the comeback bike... Some road goals first.

Cross posted:

March 15. Grant's Tomb Criterium is not only a NYC racing classic, but it's an EXCELLENT race in it's own right. Held on one of two possible course configurations (depending on NYPD towing issues), this 5-turn course is built to challenge and requires heads-up, use your brain racing to succeed. In years past, we've had moderate to good KCC participation, and good to GREAT results here as well. 

https://www.bikereg.com/Net/crca-grants-tomb-criterium-2014

Worried that you can't handle the twists and turns? Fear not, this is one of the events around which I will be organizing several mentor-events to get you guys started the crit racing season on the right foot.

First, the week before, either the Saturday or Sunday (coordinated with the Spring Series CP race...which has not yet been scheduled), after the racing action, we'll roll up to the Grant's Tomb course and spend some time pre-riding the course, practicing tricky turns, a deceptively long/hard uphill finishing sprint, talk tactics (more or less talk depending on wind-chill temps!).

Second, on race day, I will be onsite all day, coaching/mentoring from the sidelines. From getting in hot-laps around a fully closed course, giving pre-race hot-tips and double secret racing line instruction that will make your life so much easier, grabbing/holding onto extra layers from the start-line and shouting helpful advice from the sidelines during your race, I'll be there FOR YOU.

Third, it is my hope that we can get the Kissena pop-up tent out there with some turbo trainers for proper and conveniently located warm-ups.

This race and it's associated events will be an excellent opportunity to apply the things you've learned from JP's tactic talks into practice! Don't miss out!!!
Grant's Tomb Criterium...it is safer to attack the Death Star space station.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnP5iDKwuwk

Cross posted:


Some you you may know that I Keith and I share a birthday. And since 120 miles riding with the likes of JP Partland and Dan Chabanov up Bear Mountain, might just be too much...

I'm kicking around the idea of a "Bertucco's 'B' Birthday Ride." It's part of my commitment to having more mentor-led alternative group rides this year.

It WILL NOT be this coming weekend (I'm out of town) for anyone who might be interested. And this one wouldn't go all the way up to Bear Mountain, but would take us north past the Apple Orchard (ask your friends), hitting up some really nice roads, including some ball-busting climbs that Mattie D. showed a few of us a few years ago. Because despite being a slower than average Kissena climber, it's still among my favorite kinds of riding to do. And even though it doesn't take in Bear Mountain, it would still require similar time commitment that Keith's ride does.

Anyway, let me know if you might be interested in this ride.

But...fear not those with other lives...I'll still be leading my regular length B-rides this winter/spring too. Keep an eye on this thread. Also keep your fingers crossed that we get a more traditional NYC winter weather pattern soon.
@Marc- Gonna try and go this weekend maybe as far as Orchards, but I'd also go next weekend. Next Sunday is my birthday fellow Aquarian.

"Cracking open Mr. Grant's Tomb."

March 1 or 2, time TBD. Mark your calendars, weather depending, I will lead eager riders around both Grant's Tomb courses, discussing best and alternate racing lines, strategy and tactics. This will be a good opportunity for you to pre-ride the course that makes grown men shiver. Plenty of time to figure out where YOU want to start your sprint from, ask questions and generally familiarize yourself with the course that hosts one of the best races on the NYC calendar.

The idea is that this clinic is either immediately after a Central Park Race (crickets so far on that front), OR a stop on the way north over the GWB for a more usual weekend ride.

If you are racing Grant's Tomb - Marc's clinic is a must. The course (which course will it be?) can be raced smart if you know the right lines - and the alternate lines - all of which Marc will guide you through. 


I am also planning 2 clinics in the near future. 

1) How to race Prospect - likely before the L&C Cup, maybe earlier pending the Spring Series schedule if that ever gets posted. 

2) How to race Floyd - hopefully before the Thursday night series begins. 

Both of these clinics will include riding the courses, learning tactical lines, knowing how and where to attack and where to conserve energy. 

Dates will be posted shortly. 

Michael 

-- File under Mentoring as well - Goal setting, planning, mental preparation for races --

A way to approach racing / training. (Geared towards Grant's)

If I am going to a race, I have a plan for that race - fitness or winning. I don't think I'll gain either from Grant's. In terms of fitness, I could double up and gain some fitness, but it's crit fitness. Additionally, while it appears I can ride a trainer well, I don't think I'm doing the specific training for success at Grant's. Further, Grant's conflicts with my buildup for races I care about. I'll be at Branchbrook, doubling up on my races the day of Grant's.

My first Crit will be Rahway. Which will come after my race build up commences and is in full swing. March will see the shorter 5 min efforts begin. April will have the 3,2,1 min efforts show up in my training. So, Rahway will at least let me be on the way towards racing fitness and I can have a legitimate shot at winning. I like to use the race as a marker of my fitness to let me know if I'm on the right track.

Come May, I'll be in race shape as I define it - properly ready to go with a base of fitness that is being used to sharpen my racing fitness and abilities. So, to that end, Orchard Beach becomes the first test of my training. The payoff is the Memorial Day weekend. 

I've found that given my limited training time and recovery abilities, I can bring my fitness level up to that of the best in NYC, but I can't maintain it there for as long. By the middle of June, I am done with my peak / plateau. I will still race, but expect little and my racing turns to fitness and helping teammates achieve thier goals. Personal ambition pretty much is gone, except if the opportunity presents itself.

If Grant's was in the summer, I'd happily race it - either as a race in my peak window, or as part of my more careless summer racing. As it sits in the calendar now, I will not enter it unless compelled to do so. I just don't see the compelling reason to spend as much time getting to and from the race as I will spend for Branchbrook, but getting less out of the race.

--Eric

 

Cross-posted:

Erika and all,

How many women on the team are a) planning on racing CP on the 8th and b) interested in doing a mentor-led pre-race course ride-through/break-down?

I was intending on doing my annual Central Park Clinic on the weekend of the 14th, the weekend before what I thought was going to be the first CP women's series race. But, will happily shift dates around to accommodate interest?

For those who aren't too familiar with racing in central park, it might surprise you to know that while it is the city's longest circuit, it also races most like a crit. The winding, dipping and diving 10k loop makes strategy especially important as it is harder to muscle your way away from the field.

Let me know so I can plan accordingly. Thanks!
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So, it's obvious that us mentors don't always agree. And that's fine. We all are experienced and knowledgeable and there is no "one and only" correct way to approach training and racing. Ragot has laid out an explanation as why he is not including Grant's Tomb on his calendar, instead choosing to race the Branchbrook circuit race on that day. Ragot is rock solid racer with good knowledge to share. And he's got a plan that's right for him. But what is right for him, is not necessarily right for you. I actually don't know what's right for you (most of you that is, a few of you others, I have ideas...LOL). Seriously though...

I don't want you to read things like, "...fitness or winning. I don't think I'll gain either from Grant's. In terms of fitness, I could double up and gain some fitness, but it's crit fitness"  or "I don't think I'm doing the specific training for success at Grant's" and generalize his comments and think YOU won't gain anything from racing Grant's Tomb. For an academic exercise, let's take a look at some of Eric's key words/concepts here and break it down a bit.

Fitness? Different kinds of races, require different kinds of efforts, and so comparing the fitness gains from one event versus another can be challenging. It's easy to assume that a shorter race would have fewer fitness gains than a longer event, but if you did you might be wrong. You must consider the intensity as well as overall time spent in the saddle when looking at the overall fitness benefit.

That said, the P 1/2/3 Branchbrook park race in question is 60 minutes while the P 1/2/3 race at Grant's Tomb is 75 minutes long. Barring riding with your nose in the wind for 60 minutes, it's hard to imagine any other way TSS numbers are going to be higher at the end of a Branchbrook race versus finishing a challenging 5 turn crit with elevation changes. And if one was planning on "doubling up" at Branchbrook for fitness/miles, then you are looking at 80-105 minutes of total racing time versus doubling up at Grant's Tomb of 80-115 minutes.

Crit fitness? No question, the physiological, tactical, and bike handling demands of Grant's Tomb are going to be different than what a circuit like Branchbrook will ask of your body and bike. If you've decided that you need a steadier state workout/race with fewer bike handling demands on March 8th, then heading to the Jersey park is most certainly your best bet.
 
However, if you want to test how well you recover from multiple short hard efforts, only to get kicked in the head again...if you want to get better at counter-steering, leaning that bike over, taking the same corner 20+ times...if you want to practice screaming down a descent followed by a 90 degree turn onto an out-of-the saddle jam-climb 20+ times at race pace...if you want a shot at a wide open finishing sprint where there is plenty of room to do what you need to do without danger of getting hooked into a curb...then I gotta give the edge to Grant's Tomb.

Winning? If one of your goals for any given weekend (where you have multiple options) is to win a race, then you should definitely choose the race where you think you have the best chance of winning. The last few years, the Pro 1/2 podium Grant's Tomb has been occupied by a mix of elite semi-pros, and also actual pro riders. So yeah, it's probably more likely to win at Branchbrook (although plenty of brutes race there too). Last year's Grant's Tomb 11th place finisher was Hedge Fund/Team Funder Greg Olsen, a strong rider to be sure, but there are any number of Kissena cat 2/3s on our team who could realistically expect to beat that guy on any given day.

Success? So there are two general ways of thinking about what constitutes "success" at a race. One is individual success; the other is contributing to the success of one of your teammates. So even if you personally don't have the kind of fitness/form to personally succeed in any given race, that doesn't mean you don't have the form necessary to help a teammate do well.

Over the last 3 or so years, Kissena has shown that they are generally excellent at supporting each other on the race course. It's one of the awesome things about this club. Key to team success is good communication. It's something us mentors might have taken for granted recently, because we've raced together for so long, that it's easy to assume we don't need to talk to each other. But we do and when we don't things get a little sloppy.

So the lesson EVERYONE should learn here is that we need to communicate with each other about personal goals in order that we can help each other at some point during the season. Now we don't have contracts or director sportifs to tell us what we have to do, so it's up to us as good sportsmen and women to consider our teammates when signing up for a race. That DOESN'T mean you necessarily do a particular race because of your teammates, or race a certain way. It just means that you keep yourself generally aware of what's going on around you. You absolutely should do what you want. I'd like to believe we're still that kind of club.

HOWEVER, it seems reasonable to me that if you would like the help and support of your teammates at some point during the season, you should be willing to help them at another point.

Okay, specifically back to Grant's Tomb...here are a few additional reasons why you might consider racing in Morningside Heights on March 8th.
  • Family friendly! Walking a short crit course backwards, hanging out in multiple locations is a great way to see the action unfold. There aren't too many races where your friends and loved ones have the opportunity to truly see you race.
  • Later start times! The earliest race kicking off at 8am is a full 45 minutes later than the Branchbrook start. And sweet jeesus the Pro 1/2/3 race starts deliciously at 2:45 in the AFTERNOON. (If I hadn't promised to be there early and onsite all day to mentor/coach Kissena members, I would definitely bask in the glory of sleeping in)
  • You love crits. It's one of just 2 or 3 actual crits in the local area every year. (Rahway is a fun enough race, but with just one turn where you even have to think about breaking, it sure as heck ain't going to get you ready to race the Memorial Day Weekend Jersey crits from a bike handling, exploding out of corners, trying to recover in between point of view.)
  • You suck at crits. You're not going to get better at crits by not racing crits.
  • You are a great bike handler. 5 turns, left and right turns, a slightly sketchy descending banked, high-speed sweeper, this is a course that rewards the great bike handler for sure.
  • You are a terrible bike handler. You're not going to get better at turning by avoiding challenges.
  • There is only ONE Grant's Tomb race. As opposed to many, many MANY opportunities to race at any of the other park race venues.
  • You love to race with your head. It's impossible to turn off the brain in a crit. You must always be thinking, calculating, absorbing, reacting, acting. It's a rush that is not to be missed.
  • You've been training hard. Lets face it, this winter has been rough. There's going to be a higher than usual amount of dudes opting out of training days because they haven't been able to get outside. Come the summer, relative fitness tends to even out. Exploit your tough-guy advantage, early and often!
Okay, that's it. A couple of different perspectives on approaching the beginning of your season to consider before you start clicking check boxes on a bikereg registration page! May the force be with you. (Also cute gif of kitty cats.)

Okay, tired of waiting for the "Legacy of AVD" to announce a spring race series or not, and looking at the Kissena calendar, I see that there is a new member ride at 9am on March 2nd starting on the Jersey side of the GWB. Sooooo....

"Cracking Open Mr. Grant's Tomb"

Where: 120th and Riverside Drive, Manhattan, NYC
When: March 2, 7:30-8:30 am (plenty of time to get to the Sunday new member's ride if so desired)
What: Course review and practice. Sprints, corners, etc. Hotlaps as traffic allows, but we'll breakdown every corner, every approach, etc.
Who: All KCC members (friends/family welcome too, but let me know ahead of time so I can bring release forms or something)
Additional note: Your day's training ride will be before and/or after; be dressed for lots of stopping and starting and listening to me talk.

A quick note/addendum regarding the Grant's Tomb Clinic on March 2. It seems there is now an AVD race in CP and so in efforts to accommodate anyone who wants to both race and get "clinic-ed" on Grant's Tomb, I'll be doing two "shows" back to back/overlapping as necessary. It's just a short 10 minute or so ride north of CP to get to the Grant's Tomb clinic. Just give me some notice if this applies to you, so I'm not standing around in the cold waiting for no-one.

Okay, so I'm about to drop another TWO clinics on you and make it official. So there...

"Olmsted's Order: Deciphering Central Park" (two separate dates)

Where: East 79th (?) in the park; traditional start/finish line of CP races
When: March 1 AND March 15, 7:30-8:30am
What: Course review/ride through and tactical notes. Will work on approach to final sprint as time/crowds allow.
Who: All KCC members (friends/family welcome too, but let me know ahead of time so I can bring release forms or something)

Additional notes:
  • Again, lots of stopping and starting here to allow me to point out lines, approaches, exits, etc., in a way that everyone can hear. Dress appropriately.
  • Also, I've ADDED a second date on March 1, for those who are planning to race the first AVD Spring Series race and want to get clinical the day before. As of now, however, it seems the more popular date will be on the 15th, when several from the women's team have already written the date in their calendars.
  • While many chose not race CP in the spring there are two bigger later season races in CP that are very popular with the club. And being successful in CP is challenging. Can be easy to finish with the bunch, but placing is a whole 'nother thing. So, you know, something to think about...

Heads-up announcement about the March 1 CP clinic. CRCA is holding the first of many of their "you can't play with us" races on that day starting at 6:45. So we'll have to keep an eye out for packs of racers that morning as we tool around. It might provide an interesting opportunity for me to point out certain pack dynamics during a race pace. We'll see.

Also, can anyone tell me where the "Tavern" finish line is?

  • You suck at crits. You're not going to get better at crits by not racing crits.
This^

(Looks sheepishly at bike hanging on wall... back to shoes... back to bike... shoes again...)

For those who absolutely can't get things together for Grant's Tomb there are a handful of other good, honest crits. Notably in New Jersey (if you don't go to Killington on Memorial Day Weekend) and just a week or so later in White Plains NY at the NYS crit championship. A nice course, with just enough, "OMG" to keep you honest, but not so much that will send you to the sidelines before the race is over (if you are fit enough).

Hey everyone planning on attending this Saturday's CP clinic...I'm going to keep an eye on the weather and if the forecast continues to be redonkulous, like 15 degrees, then I'm going to cancel. I've ridden in sunny and 15 and it's doable, but not conducive to stop and go and chat and stop and go.

Check this thread Friday evening for an update!

It is also at this point that I will quote my favorite meteorologist from Chicago, Tom Skilling, you usually says around this time of year, "Hang in there folks, it really can't stay this cold too much longer. The days are getting longer and the temperatures will rise."

Flash poll...who's still wants to go forward with the CP clinic tomorrow?

Temps look borderline. We'll definitely get tough guy points. But since this is 1 of 2 "identical" clinics it might not be the end of the world. Alternatively we could move it to late morning when its going to be 30-ish degrees.

So please respond here with your votes. If one person votes for sticking with the original time for tomorrow's clinic, I'm in as originally scheduled.
I'm still in for the original time. Would be fine moving it slightly later (9-10am, which gives us 8º of relief) but gotta be back in BK by 10:30am latest :(

Good enough for me Erika! Original time it is. I was just out tonight walking the dog. 22 degrees and not too bad with the proper layers. (and if it's just a few people or less, will be easy to talk and ride without stopping, so I'm not worried anymore about the temps. Tomorrow with sunshine will be just fine.
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A chilly but manageable morning in CP for the clinic. Erika and I did a few laps with a few stops along the way as we picked apart some of the finer details of the course. We even did a little backtracking and worked a bit on her final sprint set-up for next week's "Tavern" finish line. Hope to see more of you out in the park on the 15th when I do it again. In the meantime, a couple of hot tips as the racing season (if not the weather) heats up.
  1. Practice riding/sprinting/shifting with your heavy winter gloves! You want to know ahead of time what kind of adjustments you need to make to your riding style based on what kind of gear you are wearing to keep frostbite at bay.
  2. Don't overdress! If you leave the house and feel nice and toasty all over, chances are you are going to be a hot--then freezing cold--sweaty mess just one or two laps into your race. Everyone's layering system is going to be different, but in general, you want your hands/feet toasty at all times, but if your legs and core are chilly for the first 15 minutes of your ride/race, you've probably got the layers done right.

Here are a few tentative dates for some clinics I'll be hosting this year down in my neck of the woods:

3/14 & 4/4, 5-7PM: Racing Prospect Park

3/27 & 5/1 5-7:30 PM - Racing Floyd Bennet Field 

These are strategically placed before the NYC Spring Series, L&C Cup, WS United, and Kissena Tuesday night series begin at each venue. I'm also going to do one before the R&A women / masters series begins but I'm not positive I have the date hammered out yet. 

Basically, it's going to be like what Marc does at at Central Park & Grant's Tomb but without the pony tail & quill stem. 

I'll post a more detailed syllabus and an RSVP link as each date approaches. 

Let me know if you see any major conflicts. 


Perlberg!

That's exactly when I was going to suggest a pre-Battenkill talk, go over all the details of that event with a little more than a week to go. 

how to cut mileage and set up a mini-peak, what to bring, what to expect, what to scout out, how to ride it,  etc.

Alas.  It will have to be another night.

L&C Cat 4 tactics and teamwork talk and practice at the Velodrome 3/23

Now that the Kissena racing season has started with a bang at Grant’s Tomb we can start to think about tactics for the L&C cup series.

Having the date of the first L&C cup race pushed back to April 5th gives us the opportunity to meet, plan strategies and work on skills.

Given that we have a new mix of racers with varied teamwork skills, a large Kissena presence in the Cat 4 fields, as well as many goals (placing, jerseys, series points) it makes sense for us to meet to discuss roles and strategy and practice leadouts.

JP has agreed to let us piggyback on his “The Kissena Early Season Day at the Velodrome” on Sunday, March 23rd, at 9am after the Spring Series race in CP.

In addition to whatever JP has planned, my initial sense is for us to address the following (suggestions welcome):

1.     Identify team and individual goals
2.     Identify strategies towards attaining these goals
3.     Review how to apply these strategies during an L&C race
4.     Review how to communicate effectively during the race
5.     Practice lead outs
6.     Review blocking and other team strategies.

    Until then, we can share our goals and ideas for the series


    Just a quick bump and reminder - tomorrow (Friday) 5PM meet up at Grand Army Plaza for a mentor led clinic on racing in Prospect Park. 

    All are welcome. If you need to show up later, just hang by GAP and wait for us to roll around.