Kissena Forum Archive

Close Encounters of the #%&*@! Kind (Legal too)

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Jesus, Jeff, so glad to hear you're okay and it sounds like you handled it well.

What do we do about all this, as a part of the cycling community?

I mean, really? Nice out of ten pedestrian or cyclist/car incidents that result in death are the fault of motorists.

I agree with Stearns. I mean, Jeff's story is scary! It's no secret that a large portion of our citizenry is so brainwashed that they'll actively go to bat for the very things that are destroying their lives...but random people arguing for the rights of motorists to hit and run?

And the city is straight up fueling it with this propaganda campaign.

Cops ticketing people for shit that's not illegal? Hit pieces on the DOT commissioner in the NYT with all kinds of fake data in them? It's all so bizarre.

I've been riding a bike in Los Angeles daily for four months now and I haven't had a single incident with an aggressive motorist. Some people driving stupidly, but none of this madness. In New York it happens every other day.

What do we DO?
Thanks all. Report filed.

The officer was cool, but admitted that since I wasn't injured, nothing would probably come of it. But he was fully ready and almost encouraged me to file it b/c it's a "leaving the scene of an accident" and that's a crime.

Interesting question from him was whether or not I was in a bike lane. Not sure what the angle is there: further information gathering on violations, usage, or just another layer of complexity in the legal blame game if it should come to that.
In general I find laws that say cyclists must ride as close to the right of the road as is possible (or some such) to be problematic. Namely, when we try to really "share the road" we get assholes with no depth perception, thinking they can pass when they really can't. Riding 1/2 foot more to the left, I believe makes drivers really think about the pass as they will have to go at least partially into the next lane (oncoming or not). When we riders hug the right side, I think we make it easy for drivers to think they can squeeze by without making a thoughtful and safe pass.
Now that Marc has brought up the actual "law":

—34 RCNY 4-12(p)(3): Bicycles permitted on both sides of 40-foot wide one-way roadways. Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway that carries traffic in one direction only and is at least 40 feet wide may ride as near as is practicable to either the left or the right hand curb or edge of such roadway, provided that bicycles are not prohibited from using said roadway.

First Ave is definitely more than 40 feet wide, so you can take either side, in that case. Also "practicable" means that you can use your own discretion. Only a moron finds it practicable to ride in the door zone.

—34 RCNY § 4-12(p) Bicycles.
(1) Bicycle riders to use bicycle lanes. Whenever a usable path or lane for bicycles has been provided, bicycle riders shall use such path or lane only except under any of the following situations:
(i) When preparing for a turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
(ii) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, motor vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, pushcarts, animals, surface hazards) that make it unsafe to continue within such bicycle path or lane.

The "reasonably necessary" clause makes it very easy to get out of failure to use bike lane tickets in this town, as those obstacles are attracted to New York bike lanes like iron to magnets.

In my opinion, every single solitary bicycle ticket should be contested all the way through. Don't let yours be a revenue generator.
@Ryan:
As a Cycling community, I think the first thing we should do is become educated about the biking laws of your city. The next thing to to is follow those laws, and positively encourage others to do the same and hold people accountable on both sides cars and bike equally. The next step is to get involved in your local, city, state govt to change the laws for the better. I'm tired of seeing police cars parked in the bike lanes and I'm tired of hearing stories like Jeff's. Right now I feel the NY cycling community is hated by most the NY car community/community, but we do not need to react in a negative manner tit for tat (you almost killed me I'm going to try and kill you) and actually give motorists and the city a real reason to hate the cycling community. Also I feel like we could get creative as a community to get people to start taking things more seriously. At least something better than critical mass.
Or we could start a bumper sticker campaign.
And by "start a bumper sticker campaign" do you mean stick this to cars we find parked in the bike lane?
yes
just for clarification it is a joke.
Mark,

You're probably right. I guess it's part of my naive world view: if I treat others with respect by riding as far over as I can without being doored, I'm giving them more space as a gesture of good will and thoughtfulness. Instead, I've actually marginalized myself and created "just enough room" for autos to squeeze in b/c they are angry that I'm even there to begin with.

The ride home was full of bike lane violations and hostility as well. Its weird how on a nice day the animosity between people seems to grow. It's nice out; cheer up!!! I guess there's a lot more people out and a ton of them have taken to modes of transport they're maybe not accustomed to (cycling, driving....walking). So the encounters multiply.

Despite all this, I'd still rather be a dead cyclist than an angry motorist (knock on wooden plate in head).

Thanks again for the advice, y'all
"In Italy car drivers seldom became mad on us, even if we were training in the middle of the road. But sometimes a truck driver could honk at us and even pass by maybe a little to close. And then you should have seen big Mario Cipollini: Speed up and pursuing the truck. When he was in the slipstream behind a truck he could maintain a speed of 100-110 km/hour, and then he would just follow it until they reached traffic lights. Then he would simply get of the bike, remove his walkman (he always had music in his ears) and kick off his shoes. Then he pulled the truck-driver out of the truck and a fight began. It happened more than once."

- Taken from the book of Rolf Sorensen, "Cycling Con Amore"
One thing that seems clear is that bicycling laws are unclear, and if there is one good thing that come out of the bike crackdown of 2011 is that the traffic laws will have to be clarified in case law as the traffic tickets start hitting the courts.

We are vehicles and are required to obey all traffic laws and are afforded all the rights to the road that all vehicles enjoy, but are required to use specific lanes when available, except if that route is greater than 40 feet. In no way is that clear as to where a cyclist can legally ride on a major thoroughfare.
Jeff, I'm glad you did not get hurt. I think the right thing to do is to call 911 in case of a hit and run.

After being hit three times by a car in less than a year on Long Island (the last one was officially in Queens, but 200 yards from the limit), I spent three weeks riding near San Diego, Santa Barbara and Palo Alto in March. Almost all drivers there were so considerate that I still haven't recovered yet. (the only way to get hurt there is to behave like we have to here just to survive).
@Joe - there actually used to be a sticker called iparkedinabikelane.org that was circulating around. I slapped a couple on cars in bike lanes. I almost stuck one on a cop car in a bike lane on Bedford Ave but then I chickened out.

Jeff - so glad you're not hurt. It amazes me that I've been living hin this city for 13 years and it still has the power to make me so angry sometimes.
Awful story, glad to hear you are OK, Jeff. This is all beyond maddening to me, and just seems like it's getting worse to me.
Posted By: mperlbergI would file a police report ASAP with the license plate picture. go for the jugular.
Yup. A hit and run is a damned felony, and cops take 'em pretty seriously. If somebody does one, they've already attempted to skirt responsibility, and therefor, they deserve the consequences.
An article from the NY Times describing how GPS data can help piece together what happened in an accident

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/06/science/06accident.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=science
like people couldn't figure this out already. I used the second-by-second data capture to detail my crashes of 2007. The first was a steady 14mph then zero within two seconds. The second was 25mph, then 20, then zero. Didn't have gps, but wouldn't have mattered here.
Went to traffic court to fight my red light violation this morning. Almost 6 months after the violation in March. Had a page of notes for my testimony plus two articles with background information (one an interview with a cop who recommends rolling through red lights as the safest strategy for cyclists). After waiting patiently in a sparsely populated hearing room and showing considerable interest in other cases (and placing my helmet prominently on the floor where the judge could see it), I took the stand. After the police officers testimony, the judge abruptly said "D6, step around" - which meant case dismissed.

Sign of relief and slight feeling of vindication. I think the city is returning to normal (though I still watch my back and avoid avenues with bike lanes if possible).
Congrats, and way to go to court prepared!
Nice. Congratulations.
Fight the power!
Law and Order CVU—nice job Stearns! I contested an open container ticket once (I know, duh)... was a pretty interesting bunch of characters you get to wait on line with at city hall.
Nice!
Malcomson: did you win the Open Container ticket?
Open container of whup-ass?
He's been riding around with that all season...
After shuffling in a queue while trying to read my book for an hour and a half I did win the ticket! Eerily similar to my Disneyland experience.

@ Jules, you're too kind.
14spt11

david &co,
good for you&cyclists to follow through with 'due process of law'...impressive that officer attended, unfortunate, that you did not have opportunity to make your statement present evidence and illustrate publicly that there are indeed responsible cyclists(Kissena Cycling Club.KCC) +U were so well prepared, bravo!!! nice helmet move.

IMO, would like to say that i do think we should USE BICYCLE LANES for commute, &recreation whenever possible...to show a 'critical mass' and promote more cyclist friendly planning and interaction with motorists, pedestrians, shop&homeowners. the more we USE BICYCLE LANES the more familiar/aware people will become to having cyclists around & the safer the bike lanes and travelers within the public realm will become. we are NOT YET @the tipping point in usa for bicycle awareness and parody in the public thoroughfare (ie. roadway&sidewalks), insurance, air travel, licensing/registration of property &assurance of knowledge of roadway rules and responsibilities.

in fact i would like to propose that KCC members&friends make concerted efforts to USE BICYCLE LANES in weekly transit and display good practice with lights front &back, bells, hand &voice signals. note: i am not the best @this practice myself and have plenty room for improvement...but it scares the hell out of me when i see/experience cyclist traveling the wrong way on streets/sidewalks/bike lanes, and no lights or signals.

if, we do not USE BICYCLE LANES we will lose them!
"viva cyclisma!"
-h;>
I see no point in using bike lanes

They usually feature the worst pavement, are most times blocked at some point, and people/ cyclists are careless in them since their "protected" from traffic.

Not the mention some make absolutely no sense in the way they were planned out. As far as I'm concerned get rid of 'em, repave the streets & everyone will get along just fine
^ lulz

for "expert" bike riders, they serve little purpose, but to the majority of cyclists, who aren't Mavericks, they are pretty useful (even if they are often crowded with shit)