Kissena Forum Archive

Close Encounters of the #%&*@! Kind (Legal too)

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Big fat oral-hygene-challenged POS in a Fire Department t-shirt riding an upright bike went off on me, John & Malcolm today for no apparent reason. His closing attack "I'm a gangster I'm from the 'Westies' I'll have you killed" was particularly intriguing.

Seems this shit only happens when I forget to bring the video camera.
I'm compiling some tips from recent email threads:

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:: Mattio, Nov 29, 2010 ::
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Get a police report. This is an official record of the incident - basically, if you file a claim with the driver's insurance, this is proof that what happened actually happened. So, if you get hit, call the police and let them take an accident report. Ask what precinct they're from. A few days later, you can go to the precinct and get a copy of the report (you'll need a $10 money order) - this will have the driver's info (including insurance info). You can use this to file a claim with their insurance company for medical bills and/or bike damages. When my bike was destroyed this summer, I had a bike shop and the framebuilder send me formal-looking estimates for replacement in order to establish the amount of the claim.

Any set of instructions can go much further or more detailed than that, but to review:
1. Call Police.
2. File Accident Report.
3. Go to hospital if there's any question that you may be hurt.
4. Get accident report, file claim.

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:: Bill Carey, Nov 29, 2010 ::
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Everything Mattio said, plus, if you need a lawyer, I can't recommend Adam White highly enough. He is the lawyer recommended by Transportation Alternatives, as well as a cyclist himself, and a friend. He can be reached at adam@adamwlaw.com

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:: Josh Caesar, Nov 29, 2010 ::
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There is an old (but still fairly relevant) checklist at
http://www.transalt.org/files/newsroom/magazine/981JanFeb/checklist.html
I would like to add "report your accident to nycc/ta/kissena etc" to the list. The nycc website used to have a link to an accident survey, the crash data was being collected to use for analysis of trouble spots and what not.
Unfortunately the link is no longer there since they redesigned their site; I put a note on their message board, if someone replies back with the link I will forward it. Emailing the kissena list like Josh M did is also good, it lets us know about bad spots, and keeps conversations like this one active.

1. Call Police.
2. File Accident Report.
2a. Get Witness contact info

3. Go to hospital if there's any question that you may be hurt.
4. Post accident - Get accident report, file claim.
5. Post accident - find a lawyer if needed, TA has lists
6. Post accident - Let the appropriate cycling groups know what happened.
http://www.transalt.org/campaigns/bike/ticket

Transportation Alternatives tracks summonses issued to bicyclists by the New York City Police Department, Department of Parks and Recreation and other government agencies. Compiling and analyzing this data helps Transportation Alternatives engage these agencies and make informed recommendations to reduce cyclist harassment and focus enforcement of truly dangerous behavior.

Please fill out all of the white boxes below with the details pertaining to your summons. If you were ticketed for a violation that you did not commit, please note that and what did happen in the "Description of Traffic Infraction field.

Please provide as much information as possible. Though, all fields are optional.

All personal information provided will remain confidential. For more information or questions, contact bike@transalt.org or call 212-629-8080.
I wholeheartedly second this.

And I would like to add that a great way to keep up with TA's solid work is to sign up for their weekly StreetBeat email. I subscribe to it and I'm no fan of spam, so it really has to be worth my time to put my name on a mass-email list. It's a pretty well-run organization and it's our best shot right now to get Prospect Park completely car-free. The counter-protest they organized to defend the new bike lane by Prospect Park dwarfed the NIMBYs' pathetic little turnout.

Anyway, that's my plug.
I got a summons for running a red light at 175th St and Broadway on Tuesday morning at 9:00 am. I was alone and not being particularly aggressive. One of the intersections was blocked off for a food market. I wonder if they are wanting to control cyclists approaching the GWB. I've been expecting a ticket for a long time, so I didn't get too upset. The cop even let me say my piece about double-parked trucks (several in view) and the "spirit of the law". Haven't looked to see how much yet.
OK, just looked at the ticket more closely. $270! Any advice on whether it is worth going to court to fight it? On what grounds?
David
Most running a reds are 270, but they've been writing some for reckless operation of a bicycle, which is less. fwiw - so far I have yet to hear of a single one that was not tossed out in court.
Sorry to hear about your bad luck.

Definitely contact Transportation Alternatives. They will help you with this, for sure. Also, report back with what advice they give you!

Their contact info:
t. (212) 629-8080
e. bike@transalt.org

You did this thing, right? http://www.transalt.org/campaigns/bike/ticket
http://gothamist.com/2011/03/10/cops_ticketing_cyclists_for_red_lig.php
Fight it. The cop might not show and then you don't have to pay anything. Present yourself as a responsible person, a parent, an upstanding citizen, maybe a little spooked by dangerous behavior, just looking to stay safe, and it will probably get knocked down.
David,

I will testify on your behalf... recounting the day you selflessly guided me through the city when I was in a profoundly booked state.

-Norm
Everyone I've talked to has had their tickets dismissed. Even though they were actually guilty: riding on sidewalk, blowing through redlight (not in a park, on da skreet).
OK OK, I'll fight it. It is a 1111D1 violation code, which is not only $270 but 3 points on my drivers license. If I had car insurance, I suspect that would be a real problem. Yes, I filled out Transalt's ticket form.
Good luck with that, David.
TA has been very helpful to me over the past. They are a great organization, and for anyone not a member, I suggest you consider supporting them. They do good work, not only for cyclists but also for people who walk and take subways. They even hooked me up with a pro-bono lawyer after I was hit by an uninsured driver. And thanks to their advice I fought my speeding ticket in Prospect a few years ago and had it thrown out by the judge.
You should definitely fight it, as they seem to all be getting tossed. Just to clear up one thing though, they cannot put points on your license for this. DMV occasionally mistakenly does, but infractions perpetrated on bike do not get you points on your license.
I'd encourage you to fight it, and you definitely won't get points. From my experience at the downtown Manhattan court it's a morning of standing on line fun, so you might want to bring a book.
NEW ticket today for "not riding in the bike lane" up 1st Ave. The cop was very annoyed at having to deal with cyclists, but that was his assignment. He said that all the summonses were being dismissed. Nevertheless, when he finished with me, he immediately put on his red light and pulled someone else over. I'm feeling shaken after almost 40 years of bike commuting in 4 major metropolitan centers (and a couple of minor ones). I'll stay off the avenues and slink around near the rivers for the immediate future.
David
Sorry to hear that David. The 1st ave bike lane is terrible, IMHO, I ride up 1st every day, and even when I talk myself into giving it another chance, I spend more time outside it than in it, out of necessity. Sounds like they aren't even asking for arguments, but all you need to say is that something forced you out of the lane (garbage truck, car parked, etc). Good luck. This is all absurd (today they are ticketing speeding cyclists in Central Park....)
Of course there are signs along the river path that have a 5mph speed limit. And as my wife points out, I run faster than 5mph.
I almost NEVER use bike lanes, as they are generally unsafe to rid in unless you are traveling extremely slowly.

Here's the law you are supposed to have broken (http://www.bicycledefensefund.org/bikelaw.html#bikelane):

—34 RCNY § 4-12(p) Bicycles.
(1) Bicycle riders to use bicycle lanes. Whenever a usable path or lane for bicycles has been provided, bicycle riders shall use such path or lane only except under any of the following situations:
(i) When preparing for a turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
(ii) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, motor vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, pushcarts, animals, surface hazards) that make it unsafe to continue within such bicycle path or lane.
Surface hazards, the lane was filled with debris and glass that would have caused you to lose control of your bike. That would be my excuse.
Yeah, say there were pedestrians and broken glass and potholes and manholes and a cab with its blinker on yadda yadda yadda. Bottom line is that you don't have to use the bike lane if you feel it's unsafe.

I've started to write an email to my city councilman (Stephen Levin) for each of these cases of NYPD harassment of cyclists, with a link to the story. It takes me two minutes, and makes me feel a little better. My goal is just to be as consistent as possible without being too ranty.

You all heard about "speeding" tickets being handed out in CP for riding over 15 mph at 6 in the morning, right (even though the posted speed limit is 25)? This one definitely resulted in an email.

http://gothamist.com/2011/03/22/cops_ticketing_cyclists_in_central.php
Stokes, Don't get discouraged, fight back. Write the public advocate, city council president, borough president, mayor. you're an upstanding citizen, a parent, a pillar of the community.

To add to the discussion of reasons not to use the bike path, I believe the one on first avenue doesn't rigidly adhere to bike path standards, and as such, is not one you have to ride in.
Couldn't find a suitable thread, although it goes along with the bike lane discussions and collarbone break dialogues a bit.

Anyway, got hit by a car on the way up 1st ave today. Sideswiped me into a box truck. I'm basically fine, just a bruised/sore shoulder, stayed upright. I chased the guy down about three blocks later near 66th. I stop in front of him so he can't get away (although this might've really stoopid since he had already hit me once). The predictible heated exchange ensues. Normally I try to speak calmly when confronting motorists who almost kill me, but when you're actually hit and they continue on like you're nothing, it's a little difficult.

I get blamed for not riding in a bike lane (even though there isn't one there) and HITTING HIS MIRROR even though I was going straight and he came up from behind me. Ok.... While I think I'm basically fine, I ask him why he didn't stop and what kind of example he's setting for his son in the back seat by hitting someone and not stopping. As a non-parent, I'm good at giving out parenting advice. His mom (I'm guessing) gets out of the car and tells me the bike lane is on the other side. Uh, it's a bus lane.

Then the park workers on the sidelines join the peanut gallery and tell me there's no bike lane so it's my fault. Not that they have any idea what actually happened. Great, so now the general population thinks that if you're not in a bike lane, it's okay to run you over. Another byproduct of the poorly engineered and non-enforced bike lanes. At this point the small gathering is egging each other on in a cyclist-hating bike-lane backlash and I decide to just snap a photo of the license plate and wish them all a good day with a salty salute.

Sorry, a long story to get to my question: Is it worth reporting this to the police or filing a complaint when I'm essentially uninjured and my bike is undamaged?

Biggest disappointment: it was a Honda (no offense, mom has one and they're much nicer than my no-car-at all). C'mon, it's NYC, I could've at least been struck by a Maybach or Bugatti or something.

Thanks!
Glad to hear you are ok I was worried it was going to be a lot worse.
Here is what I would do:

File a police report ASAP, salt up your above report with some more explanation of the collision itself as well as the inane arguments from the peanut gallery (penned for maximum outrage), then submit it to Gothamist, TAStreetBeat, BikeSnobNYC, StreetsBlog New York, The NYPost, um, etc.

It's like screaming into a hurricane, I know.

Also -- did the Honda driver seem wealthy? Because if he did, I'm pretty sure Lucarelli & Castaldi would love to hear from you.
man i'm glad you're okay. reading that subject line made me feel a little sick for a moment there.

you know, the ease with which motorists exonerate themselves while surrounded by a ton of steel makes me rage.
I would file a police report ASAP with the license plate picture. go for the jugular.
glad to hear you're (mostly) unscathed. wtf, does the mere sight of a bike just drain basic empathy from people? good grief.
Jeff - agreed with the gang - file the report asap - but for other reasons.

1) Just in case the odds play out against you and you dont feel good later, have the report.

2) just in case they somehow id you or see you there next time you pass through, etc, and THEY try to file something. You never know..someone you didnt see could be like "hey, I recognize that guy on Shaq's bike, its Jeff!".
glad you're OK Jeff. I think I'd only file a report if there was damange to the bike and/or if I expected to need medical treatment (otherwise I wouldn't feel it would be worth the trouble). But, I could be persuaded that filing, regardless of damage/injury, is the better course. Thankfully, I don't have much experience with this sort of thing. Anyhow, let us know what comes of it.

Feel better soon!