Nittany Cross - Forum Archive

Sep 16, 2012 at 10:49 PM

Results from Day 2 of Nittany. Another strong day for KCC across most categories--we just need to get Perlberg and WDC out for the 2/3/4 races. And JP loves himself some UCI Elite action...can we get Myles a babysitter so he can train.

Cat 4

7. Jules Roazen
17. Joaquin C de Baca
18. Derek Chiles
33. Joseph Mueller
34. Benjamin Reid
53. Marc Bertucco
60. James Nelson
64. James Gironta
70. Jeffrey White
105. Joshua Ceasar

Master's 35+
13. Eric Ragot

Master 45+
20. Jim Feehan

Master 55+
7. David Stokes

Marc Bertucco

Sep 16, 2012 at 11:35 PM

Another fun day out at the races, thanks to Jules and company for setting up and arranging the tent in what became the crash corner of the day. Dusty-right-left-descents with a side order of dudes going for gold in their individual groups made for some entertaining and expensive looking wrecks.

Chatting with the guys after their races got me thinking. There was lots of talk about cornering, smoothness and Billy Dee Williams. Someone was saying that it was difficult to dial in the perfect line and be perfectly smooth in a race situation versus a workout, say with Ragot/Myles in Cunningham Park.

And I agree. I'm fricking Tim Johnson when I practice down by the Hudson River by myself. Throw me in a race and well, I'm something less. Much less. But that doesn't mean I don't try. I don't throw out the aim for good form and technique, just because right now, I might sacrifice some top speed for form. Why?

There are two reasons I made a conscious decision this weekend to race that way.

#1 I just don't have the raw power/fitness to not be Billy Dee smooth through corners right now. If you've got watts to spare, you can actually hammer the breaks when you over-cook a turn and sprint back up to speed without too much trouble or overall negative effect to the outcome of your race. I don't have that luxury. And neither do you, really...

#2 It's just something I need to work on, in a race situation. And there's no substitute for simulating racing than racing! And I know that I will eventually be MUCH better off once my fitness picks up a bit, because I'll have worked on the handling part of the equation when I had some sweet-back row-ish starting position to work with.

I know it seems impossible to go full speed, silky smooth through the twists and turns, but once you dial in the technique, the lines, the angles, then it's relatively easy to add speed. And remember, it's not about how fast it "feels" through a corner, it's your overall elapsed time, right? So if you go in to a corner too hot, and then you hammer the breaks, and then go balls-to-the-wall to sprint back up to speed, it may feel super fast, but the guy who took a better line, didn't have to hammer the brakes, might actually have a lower elapsed time through that section. Add up lots of those sections and, well, you know...

And I know in the heat of battle, especially those early laps, you have to take, to some extent, what you are given.

But just like cornering in a hairy 6 corner crit, you have to quickly evaluate your remaining options and take the best one. Then once it thins out a bit, then you start hitting those textbook perfect apices (if there aren't nasty roots, caution tape, etc in your way).

I guess my point here is that I don't want you to give up on the idea of trying to be perfect and smooth through the corners. Maybe it's your last lap, and you finally get through a tricky right left combo with speed and grace. Next race you'll hit a couple of those corners that good and the next race a couple of more. It's a progression.

Anyway, great job to everyone this weekend. Lots of smiling faces after the races. I think cross is the only sport were some jamoke can still be smiling after a race in which he got 53rd place!

eragot

Sep 17, 2012 at 01:28 AM

My feeling is if I'm exiting a corner and moving all the way to the edge of the course as I'm finishing off the turn then I'm carrying a decent amount if speed.

Also if I'm clipping a pedal while turning then I think I'm doing alright.

Some corners lend themselves to paul Mitchell. Others are like yahoo serious. I can't say I rocket out of turns at the moment as I have to work on the sprints, but I either sit and hammer up and down as I move forward on the seat, or ill stand and give it a go. All depends on how the side stitch feels.

A note on the stitch, shift to a harder gear to try to use your legs more and give your lungs a break...

Report coming when I get a computer

Good job guys.

Jules

Sep 17, 2012 at 02:51 AM

Great fun - credit where it is due to Derek, Whitey & co for the sweet Tent/Table/Chair/Dozen Hot Dogs and PBR setup! Definitely changed the completion of the spectating.

I took notes but am just too damn tired to write reports tonight. Tomorrow, I promise.

GoPro for Day 2 was sweet, caught at least one nice pileup, and Eric's choice timing of a dismount that caused the accordion pile-up was also immortalized on film.

My heckle "awwww... it's time for a hug" as the dudes clambered of each other was only beaten in the end by my 3 year old daughter on the drive home - saying from the backseat "awww, you felll down boom? Everyone, it's huggin' time!"

Marc Bertucco

Sep 17, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Ah-ha...I was wondering why I saw JPow doing a bike exchange on day one...

http://www.cyclingdirt.org/coverage/240293-CXHairs/video/656021-Jeremy-Powers-at-Nittany-Lion-Cross

Jules

Sep 17, 2012 at 02:14 PM

Getting to the hotel the night before is always a bit of a festivus of dervishes; two kids, bike, wheels, wife, kit, shoes/helmet/sippy-cup check...

Day 1

I left the kids and wife sound asleep in the pre-dawn hours to rendezvous with Derek & Whitey at yet-another-americana-diner. We scarfed our traditional waffles, poached egg and coffee before heading off to the race proper.

On the first warmup lap, we re-encountered the hideous muddy river that we'd ridden in last year as a dried, cratered, rut-tastic bone jarring speedway. A few turns later we were "in the woods" where Whitey quickly "found" the most treacherous slippery root - WHAM! He went down on his side with the speed of a bag of eggs in an overhead swing. The rest of the roots were painted red (or was it pink?) and we soon bottlenecked before the steep "ride it or run it?" incline. Most opted to ride but I had reservations about getting 9/10ths to the top before coming to halt and pitching over back-sidewards into the abyss once the race proper was started. For the record though, I rode it each time.

After a second (or third?) warmup lap we were ready to roll.

I had a 2nd row callup - which was sweet - and before we knew it we were off. Despite a decent position I was behind guys who had no business in the front row of a lineup and I was quickly 25+ spots back. Thankfully it was a rather peaceful hole-shot and nobody went down.

I rode like Thor's hammer for the first lap (8 minutes) where the highlight was a 200+ pound guy in an orange skinsuit who roared out of every corner and overcooked every turn. By the end of the first lap my throat was dry and my lungs were ragged; I hadn't really managed to pass anyone and I was exhausted. "One lap?!?" I thought. "How am I even going to finish?"

Lucky for me the pace was too high for everyone and people began to explode left and right. Lap two I passed and passed, out of the saddle whenever possible and before long I could see the front 4 up ahead of me. I waited for the flat straightaway before the entrance to the "woods" and drilled it, making a "bridge" to join them. Holy cow I was top 5! Soon enough one of the lead 4 slid out and I was top 4! We had a sizeable gap to the chasers too.

"Come on, you're still top 10!" I shouted at the downed rider as I went by.

From there on kept the throttle wide open and lost spots here and there as better guys passed me in corners. I was 8th for a while when a guy went down in front of me and I nipped into 7th.

Coming into the finishing line I could feel the two MTBNJ guys hot on my heels and they both (the shame) blew by me in the finishing 15 meters to stuff me into 9th.

Top 10!

310 Watts for the 34 minute race

334 Watts for the first 10 minutes

Average HR for the race was 178

After some celebratory food and beer we went back to our hotel to clean up and I was struck with a pretty impressive migraine; hot and cold flashes, nausea, light sensitivity, etc. Pretty ugly. I guess going so deep on the first race of the season was a bit of a shock to the system. I emerged from my nap-coma in time for dinner feeling great though.

Jules

Sep 17, 2012 at 02:14 PM

Day 2

Another day, another fantastic call-up. I was in the first row with a line of Kissenas behind me - I was the leadout guy, as usual

On the far right was a guy on a mountain bike. What is with the mountain bikers? The last time I raced 'cross with a mountain biker was at SuperCross (Myles!) and the guy just rode away from me...

This time the hole shot was sweet; I was top 4 and feeling good. I clung to the top 4 like a baby monkey clings to its mothers back - sloshing a little more left and right each time the guys ahead of me cornered and banked. Thankfully they where pressing the envelope and going down HARD. One guy slid out at the top the finishing straight; I locked up both wheels and managed to scoot by - another chowdered a barrier, and another slid out. Despite this there were a few stronger (better?) guys who slipped by and I was soon in 6th in a 6-man paceline that was making its way around the course.

It was a very strange feeling knowing (with a little more certainty the second day) that I was well on my way to another top 10. I'd struggled all last season to break into the top 10 in any race, anywhere. Gone was the overwhelmeing sense of excitement and panic that I'd felt Saturday. "Just keep it clean, keep it controlled," I told myself and did my best to bury it wherever I could; jumping out of the saddle coming out of corners, burying myself on the straightaways, etc.

I did one "accidental" perfect flying remount at the top of the run/ride up - I was in such a hurry that I actually LEAPT onto my saddle, landing on my inner thigh - I remember thinking "wow, nobody is going to believe that one." Textbook.

It was a clean race (again) and I rolled in for 7th on the day.

For some reason the pace didn't feel as brutal - and the numbers show it (173 average HR this day) but the power was higher for a big chunk of the race.

336 for 10

321 for 20

313 for 30

173 avg HR

Jeffrey White

Sep 17, 2012 at 03:51 PM

Cyclocross kickoff weekend 2012: in the bag. Racing composed approximately 66 minutes of the weekend, but it was awesome nonetheless.

Day 1:

The first day was a bit like jumping into a freezing lake at the beginning of a triathlon. Yes, we were swimming, but it was kind of jerky and overly wrought. We kinda sorta got a tent set up but we didn't have anything to put under it and it was in a fairly random location near the parking lot. On the first warmup hot lap, I came around a corner in the woodsy section and my sideloaded front tire ended up on a slick root that had not yet been sprayed orange. I went down pretty much instantly onto my left side. Got up and kept going.

I started the race in the second row, and I chose a spot behind a fast-looking dude in camo kit. It was a solid pick. I chased him down the chute and it was PASS PASS PASS HAMMER HAMMER HAMMER PASS PASS HOLY FUCKING SHIT BRAAAAKES!!!!! Now turn left. And so after the hole shot, I was in around tenth, and it was singe-file to the leader with no gaps. Full gas for the first lap maintained more or less the status quo with a couple guys blowing up from the pace, and a couple guys coming by to take their rightful places ahead of me. But everything was still together ahead to the leader. Around mid-race I cracked a little and had a really bad stretch in which I dropped from around 15th to probably around 25th. After that, I just kept battling. There was never a time when there wasn't someone ahead to chase down and there was never a time when there wasn't someone breathing down my neck from behind. Just too big a field for it to get that sorted out in such a short time. I finished in 26th place completely completely completely shelled.

Day 2:

The second day came together in a much more serene fashion. We got the tent set up at a prime course-side location. We unfolded the table and chairs we bought from Walmart the prior afternoon, and deployed the cooler full of ice and PBR. We had a pump on hand. Gotta say guys, the tent is coming together! After some commiseration among Derek, Jules, and I, we decided upon our tire inflation pressures. I settled on 27 up front and 29 in the back. In hindsight I would have chosen 30/32 for the conditions on course, not that it would have mattered.

I lined up in the second row behind Jules. Derek was in the third row behind me, so we had a little lead-out train deal going. The problem was, we were over on the left side, and there were some obstacles impinging onto the course on that side, so it got really congested and I had to do some on-bike yoga to keep my wheel from getting chopped by a guy who basically dove over and gambled that I would be able to avoid him. I came out probably 15th and kept contact for the first lap, but a couple gaps formed in the line ahead of me. Jules was up there, and so was Derek. Not sure where Juaquin was that early. Passed under the finish line at the end of the lap in a full sprint and used that fastest part of the course to make a few passes. Then as I came up the steep ramp at the end of the stretch and began my right turn in to the slalom-y portion of the course, a guy straight up plowed into my rear wheel. His front wheel ripped my rear derailleur off and tangled itself up so that we were just skidding forward as one with me sitting on my top tube and leaning my chest on my stem. I've seen some pros descend like that. I actually kept us upright until we came almost to a complete stop, then we tipped over softly. But I knew before we even came to a stop that my race was effectively over. After some tugging, he pulled his bike away, and I scampered off toward the pit, which was thankfully only about 100 feet away. They heard/saw the wreck, so they were yelling at me about bike sizes before I even got there. Did a really quick trade for a pit bike and got back out there. I was probably passed by 40 or 50 riders during this time.

I rode a couple laps on the pit bike with giant platform pedals the size of pancakes that I kept touching when pedaling through turns and almost flying off course as a result. The first time it happened, lifting my rear wheel off the ground to land about a foot to the right, the guy behind me was all, "Jesus, what the fuck was that?!" The saddle was too high so I had a hard time applying power or even maintaining contact with the pedals on the bottom portion of the stroke. But the bike handled really well, so I was still definitely racing with some aggression. Got updates from the pit guys twice a lap as I came by, and eventually got my bike back for the last lap. I probably lost 15 places on the pit bike. Made a few of those back with some aggro riding on the last lap (clip-in pedals are a really big deal, it turns out) and finished 70th.

Had a great time with the guys after the race at our new base of operations. Heckling, hot dog handups, cold beer, cowbells, kids running around, etc. Big props to Derek for pushing for it!

Joaquin

Sep 17, 2012 at 04:25 PM

I'll echo the comment about shoes being important. I forgot my steppers and rode in sneaks on day one. Haven’t forgotten shoes since I was a teenager racing MTB back in New Mexico. Lost time in all the technical stuff (fast and bumpy being the worst). Best comment of the weekend was when I passed two guys on the run up, and heard from behind re the shoes: "unfair advantage on the run!" Ended up 31, which I was fine with, considering.

Day two was also great fun, but this time with shoes. Had a bad start and ended up about 30 to 35 back after the rutted section. Need to work on that. Felt pretty good the rest of the race, and just picked guys off until I ended up 17th. Derek and I finished together, and he encouraged a nice sprint at the line by calling out some fast approaching riders behind us.

The group revelry in the Kissena tent throughout the day was a true highlight. What a great idea, and fantastic execution.

Joaquin

Sep 17, 2012 at 04:32 PM

Why I ran the log on day 2:

WilliamDC

Sep 17, 2012 at 05:31 PM

i found a gallery of saturday nittany pics!

WilliamDC

Sep 17, 2012 at 05:32 PM

Joe's game face . . . LEGIT!!!

WilliamDC

Sep 17, 2012 at 05:35 PM

Wagot!

Jules

Sep 17, 2012 at 06:49 PM

Moar!

http://www.cyclingcaptured.com/2012CyclingSeason/Cyclocross/2012-NittanyCX-Sun-CAT4/25366889_QBMK8M#!i=2092884139&k=BbM7kmq

jim_nelson

Sep 17, 2012 at 09:40 PM

I raced Sunday only. I wasn't sure until just a couple weeks ago which day I was going to be able to do so had to wait to register. Ended up starting 99th (that equaled about 12th row) and finished 60th. At my present questionable fitness level I was happy enough with passing 39 guys (got passed by a few as well).

In other cross news, my brother went down in the first lap of his race in Portland and dislocated his shoulder. Someone tried to pass him on some single track and took them both out. Spent 4 hours in the ER until they got someone to pop it back in. That may be his season.

eragot

Sep 17, 2012 at 10:04 PM

Bummer Jim.

So I had points from last season and had 19th third row for Saturday. Took the outside start spot and it didn't work well at all. Slow starter in front and I flubbed the clip in and then got edged straight towards a barrier. Didn't go hard enough and came into the home straight in about 30th I thought. At that point my work was cut out as you get caught behind slower riders and need to moblve up fast.

I moved up, but quickly the first group had formed and I was tailing the second group. Settle in and chase. Slowly I worked my way up to 12th and was reeling in 11th but had three guys on me. My biggest weakness was the long stretches into the headwind. My strengths was picking up small bits of time on the tailwind sections and the corners.

Well at some point the three guysc came around in a headwinf section. Of course then we were in the twistiest and losing ground. Recover, attack and end up with the three sitting on. I just couldn't get rid of them. Eventually after going to the back again and attacking again. I shed two guys. But Roger caught us and went through us. So, I was with one Guy who, as we were catching up to 12th, insisted on coming around me thus slowing the chase. I even told him not to, but to no avail. He attacked hard into the ruts even though I led into them. I couldn't respond. He took 14th.

So pacing was develop stitch in side, ease up a bit, go for the stitch again. Repeat as necessary.

Sunday next...

Jules

Sep 17, 2012 at 11:50 PM

@ Jim that really sucks for your brother.

@ Joe, nice short-short socks :P

eragot

Sep 18, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Day 2 - Sunday

Brought Luka with me. Got hit with a speeding ticket just before I got off of I-78. Bummer.

Anyways, run into Handsome Joe in the parking lot and Luka is like "see ya". Off they go.

Change and reconnaissance of the "backwards" course. As I am riding the first lap, I go over the barriers and do a lazy remount - ROLL the rear tire. Damn annoying. Put that 6" section back on and continue the lap without issue until I find Joe and Luka with my pit wheels. Change them up and start riding and "POP!" in my rear shifter. No, not again - this happened at Staten CX - the head of my rear shift cable pops out of its slot in the shifter. Luckily, I am in the pits, so Hello SRAM neutral support!

Shifter fixed, derailleur tuned and off I go to the ride up / log combo. Hmmm, I ride up it fine, but then dismount as awkwardly as possible - I just don't have the timing right and end up dismounting my unclipping with my left foot, putting it on the ground as I lean to the left and swinging my right over and around the rear. I mean, it worked, but it was ugly - repercussions later.

When the course opens before my race, I get out there again - never quite comfortable in the rooty woods section, I find some lines I am comfortable with, so that's good. The rest of the course seems fine and I can handle it, but I try the ride up / log twice more. One awkward, one good-ish dismount. Regardless, I should have spent some time there getting the feature mastered. I didn't.

Second row call up - sweet! I take a middle slot and am behind #2 in the series last year. Off we go. Clip in is smooth, the guys in front aren't as fast, slide right and I slide left - "I can do this!" and BOOM, off I go, actually going for the hole shot. I have it, but don't chop Dave Weaver (eventual winner?) so he leads into the rutted pit first. I follow. Oh wow, this hurts as the minute mark hits! I let #2 slide through and then I'm leading the group of 3-?? I stay there, pass the pits and go into the ride up / log. I blow it and have to do the horrible dismount. I think I kicked the guy behind me because I got off so far from the log, but I couldn't pedal another stroke the way I set myself up. CRASH - a bunch went down behind me.

Ride up the next hill, get some Kissena love and hit the rooty section. I screwed my eyes shit going as hard as I could to keep it up front. Some guys slid past on the long straight, but I was still 7th as I came past the Kissena tent on lap 2. But then I continued to slide and just couldn't grab back onto the wheels in front of me as they tired. Best things to hear "go Daddy" followed by "they are getting tired, get them" from Stokes. Umm, I was trying to get them, but was quite tired too.

In the end, I just didn't have to to close the small gaps to the guys in front of me. I ride much better from the front and when I get passed, I can't seem to match others and instead ride my pace, which often matches the others in terms of lap speed, but means that when they ride slower than I do, I am then slowing my lap times. So, I lose time. I fell back to 13th and was slowly seeing #11 and #12 tire in front of me, but I ran out of time to bring them back. Plus Roger was chasing. He didn't catch me and #14 who did not plan to sprint and was thankful that I pulled us clear. He got it to let me pull so we didn't get caught.

The takeaway? Much better race Sunday. While still 2 min down on the winner, I was only a minute off of 4th, but on Sat it was 1:10. I was just that much closer to where I want to be (top 10). Best advice - get the hole shot and slide backwards rather than move up.

The cheering from the KCC tent was awesome.

Jules

Sep 18, 2012 at 03:24 PM

@ Eric I got some sweet photos of the "hugathon" you caused behind you with your first dismount. Epic. Somehow you got guys to fall both to the left and the right of you. Tell the truth, it was a dinosaur fart, wasn't it?

eragot

Sep 18, 2012 at 04:01 PM

nah, the dinosaur fart came after the stop at Wawa

eragot

Aug 26, 2013 at 05:04 PM

Who is ready? I know there is a separate Cyclocross thread, but there are pictures in this one!

Jules

Aug 26, 2013 at 05:15 PM

If you have wicked good photos that aren't on the forum send 'em to me by any method you like (twitter/Dropbox/box.com/link/sneaker net, etc) and ill get 'em onto the team Flickr.

Phil Maronilla

Aug 26, 2013 at 05:59 PM

I can't wait to get trampled on by the first barrier.

Marc Bertucco

Aug 26, 2013 at 07:01 PM

eragot said:

Who is ready? I know there is a separate Cyclocross thread, but there are pictures in this one!

Hotlist thinks big cross races with lots of Kissena's deserve their own thread.

Mark Taylor

Aug 26, 2013 at 10:28 PM

Ok, so what's the best field to race to do for a out of shape 46 year old cat 4,

Jules

Aug 26, 2013 at 10:41 PM

I get happy whenever the leaves begin to turn and Hotlist begins to refer to himself in the third person...
#CXisBoss

For those of you still wondering; show up and watch a race - you'll instantly understand why we love it so.

WilliamDC

Aug 26, 2013 at 11:55 PM

Marc Bertucco said:

eragot said:

Who is ready? I know there is a separate Cyclocross thread, but there are pictures in this one!

Hotlist thinks big cross races with lots of Kissena's deserve their own thread.

Those of you who were around for the clusterfuss that was the Yahoo! Groups list serv may remember that one of the OG reasons we moved to a forum was so that we could have separate threads for each category of a race. That way, you don't HAVE to read a ton of shit not relevant to you/your category crew . . . but . . . wait for it . . .

YOU CAN IF YOU WANT TO using the magic of "search"

long live the Nittany thread!

Marc Bertucco

Aug 27, 2013 at 04:06 AM

Mark Taylor said:

Ok, so what's the best field to race to do for a out of shape 46 year old cat 4,

Hotlist is excited to be back in action and he would like to respond to this seemingly simple question. There are a couple of important things to first understand as you enter your first cross races.

Cross, when done properly, with reasonable expectations, is almost always fun and competitive.
Cross, when done properly, with reasonable expectations, will always kick your ass.
Cross, when done properly, with reasonable expectations, will always provide you with at least one, two or three dudes to battle in the corners...even if you are going for 67th place! And that's AWESOME.

That said, there are some general truths about the categories that apply to the New England/Mid-Atlantic region.

Master's specific racing is always going to be harder than the cat 4 racing and probably cat 3 racing too. Unless you are 90% a pro, for example, don't even think about signing up for the Master's 35+ races in New England. The same basically holds true for the 45+ races--brutal.

So then you are left with choosing between, in New England, Cat 4 or Cat 4 35+. Cat 4 35+ just might be a smidge easier but for the new crosser, not so much that you would actually notice. In fact, often there is just one Cat 4 race (even if they claim to have separate prize lists).

In the MAC series races, you essentially have two realistic choices, Cat 4/5 or Cat 2/3/4. The Cat 4/5 is certainly going to be easier overall and the field won't be as deep, but for many, timing, travel arrangements, etc., suggest that the 2/3/4 race is the one you sign up for.

In both series, you should expect that there will be a handful of guys who legitimately should be racing Cat 3, but are addicted to placing top 10, top 5 week after week after week. In New England, there are probably 10-12 "cat 4s" who should be racing cat 3. In the Mac Series, the sandbagging is nowhere near as bad, because having the Cat 2/3/4 race at 1:15-ish in the afternoon, trumps even the sandbaggers desire to podium at a race they would have to get up at 5 in the morning to make it to on time.

All this is to emphasize that when contesting the big regional series, expect that the new Cat 4/5 crosser, who doesn't get a first few row call-up, on the typical learning curve (we don't count the 16-year old kid on a mountain bike, who in his first cross race ever, lines up in the last row and is a podium contender by the end...there's one of those every year), will battling it out for "minor" placings mid-pack or further behind.

That said, you do a few weekends of big time regional series cross racing, then show up to a "local" smaller (where a field might be 20-50 riders, instead of New England's 100-125 rider fields) New Jersey race like Cooper River or Bubble Cross, then you might find yourself being MUCH more competitive than you expected.

Mark Taylor

Aug 27, 2013 at 10:34 AM

Marc, it won't be my first cross race, so I've no illusions about how competitive (un) just first year I've been eligible for 45 +,I was wondering if a ton of cat 1&2s still race this field

Jules

Aug 27, 2013 at 10:43 AM

ThrnHotlist hasth spaketh! Heed him. Listen Heed, not the drink...