Mattie,
Most 700c wheeled road bikes have a head angle between 74 and 72 degrees. You'll see steeper on track bikes and slacker on some cross bikes and most loaded touring bikes. But you already know this. I'd venture that 73-73.5 head angle for racing bike is most common. BMC, Pinarello, and a number of Euro Pro bikes go with head tubes in the 72 range.

My point about the stem angle and head tube height was pointing out that Cervelo is currently designing some of their frames with the idea that a stem with spacers underneath, even an 80 or 84 degree stem with no spacers underneath yields more lateral flex than a taller head tube with a 73 stem. Considering that many companies have followed Cervelo's lead in other places, this could be the wave of the future and for some people to consider when sizing up potential bikes.

Here is Gerard Vroomen, Cervelo co-founder, ranting on stem height. http://gerard.cc/category/bike-equipment/ There are several posts.

I find all this stem-height-flux-capacitor stuff too complicated, but I did upgrade my 2009 R3 to a 2011R3 and the new bike handles MUCH better on twisty descents.

I'm still going to get dropped like a bad habit going down some of the California descents, but at least I'll look good doing it.

@Jeff, what size tires are you rolling on? My serotta, which is 72.5 HT, points down slightly with a -17 3t, mainly because I have a 25 in the back and a 22 up front.


And I agree with the longer headtubes on new bikes making sense. I can count on one hand the number of road bikes I've had fit and go out the door where I had to slam the stem. Maybe even on one finger. Contrast that with the number of bikes I've had to put silly looking Ritchey boner stems or even worse, adjustable skyward bound stems to make customers happy. And note, making the customer happy and having a proper bike fit don't always mean the same thing sadly.

joshC,
i was a RIM/BB user awesome w/google maps esp. bike/terrain, email, &address book - not so good with groovy apps, updates &entertainment; So, since this is a time for change for you - new phone, new computer, new lease on life!

go for 'apple' all-in...apple air/macBook, apple, iPad, appleTV, apple iPhone 4S or 5(if it's around the corner) &sync ALL with the i-cloud &G-Mail. apple is the only holistic system&appliance provider w/super helpful beautifully designed stores all over planet.

Note: a key for me is ability to take smart-phone to europe/abroad so the kenundrum is appliance vs coverage/data&service costs - does it have sim card? and can it be used abroad? ie. GMS(T-Mobile, etc) or CDMA(Verizon). Verizon is best for usa/nyc coverage, but, lousy for international, so, i have an international plan, unlimited data &the iPhone4S or 5 has sim card, can use it abroad & can be used as a modum for lapTop.

ALL the BEST change IS GOOD!

-h:>
ps. when you become a new subscriber &or new tel# there are plenty of excellent bargins out there @verizon/ T-Mobile, Sprint etc...

Ok, re-inflating this thread... any new or revised opinions on tubeless out there? I am thinking about buying a nice pair of aluminum tubulars (I'm not keen on racing with carbon rims anymore, due to the relatively poor braking), but I'm open to the tubeless equation too.

Any other tubeless wheelset tried out there --Fulcrum/Campy, Stan's (seem flimsy), others?

Has anyone used the Stan's tubeless conversion kit on a clincher wheelset?

thanks,
Norm

Norm-

Here is my experience 1 year later.

I raced and trained nearly every day on my ultegra front wheel and hutchinson tire. I'm probably going to get a flat tomorrow for saying this, but 0 flats since I mounted the tire.

The rear was a different story. I punctured the tire and the latex sealant sprayed right out the hole. It wouldn't seal. There are tire patches for this, but at the same time the wheel went all wonky out of true (unrelated to tubeless) so I started running a different rear wheel. I need my power-meter anyway.

So yeah. Tubeless is pretty cool.

addendum --just read JP's write-up on Comp Cyclist (link quoted above) which covers the Fulcrum Zero 2-way fit wheels. I have a pair of Fulcrum Racing 1 "one-way" fit... super solid wheels. So, upgrading to 2-way Fulcrums maybe in my future.

@McKay
If you are open to carbon frames I have a 2010 Van Dessel Rivet that is in budget. Very rigid and responsive. 56 TT

If I'm not mistaken, the Rivet is a stiff ride, approaching harsh.

@mperlberg --thanks. seems like tubeless seats exactly between clincher and tubular. Like a tubular (with sealant), it flats much less frequently, you can run lower pressures if you like, and if you do flat you can roll on it without damaging the rim. Like a clincher, it's fixable out on the road --just a mess with the sealant-- but much less of an ordeal than changing a tubular (not that I've ever changed a tubular --just mounted them initially which was not easy.

Still considering it. So, if other have opinions --let me know.

question: if you roll with latex tubes inside clinchers, and use sealant, that would probably make a nice training tire --wouldn't allow for lower pressures and pinch avoidance-- but you might avoid a good many punctures than without sealant. Does anyone do this? Is that sealant just too much of a pain?


-Norm

thanks all for the input! ian, i assume the TT means its a time trial bike? i look forward to carbon someday, but i like the idea of something that wont blow up when i crash at floyd. although i only really heard about cervelos doing that.

Posted By: mckaythanks all for the input! ian, i assume the TT means its a time trial bike? i look forward to carbon someday, but i like the idea of something that wont blow up when i crash at floyd. although i only really heard about cervelos doing that.

56cm top tube length. As far as the strength of carbon, anything that would comprehensively destroy a carbon bike would likely also crumple an aluminum bike. Carbon is also usually cheaper and easier to repair if you do crack it up.

McKay,
I also meant to suggest that if you want more stiffness, you should look into Shimano's Pro handlebars. I think it's their 7 line, the aluminum bars that pros sometimes use. They ahve bars that possess a 31.8mm diameter all the way across the tops until the start of the curves.

Mattie,
But the patching is usually not pretty. Worst of all; it adds weight.

http://www.spookybikes.com/node/163

if u have the means...I highly recommend. Also raceface aluminum handlebars were tested by velonews to be the stiffest...I have them

yacks

@Yacks, you must have gotten one of the good Spooky's because I was talking with a couple of guys on the club who have or have heard about Spooky frames that are out of alignment enough to have had to send them back. Hearing that sort of thing actually makes me mad, honey-badger mad.

"Honey Badger don't give a shit if the bike is 'made in the usa,' because if Honey Badger has to ride the bike in such an off kilter way as to cause knee pain or injury, Honey Badger is going to eat that fingers off that all-American frame builder's hand so he/she won't do any more damage to folks who like to ride bikes."

yeah --some of the Spooky Skeletors have one chainstay longer than the other (mine is fine, but it seems that Konrad's is not)... Joaquin is happy with his and Yacks likes his (except he complained of it being to twitchy in its handling).

However, the frame the Yacks links to above is the HavocStaff, the new 2012 frameset --I don't know how well the bike is constructed, but Mickey has been sitting on one of our teammate's HavocStaff frames for over a month, claiming that he doesn't have derailleur hangers that work well with the frame.

Another teammate ordered a cross frame from Mickey in the early fall and it has not been shipped to him.

If you order some stickers and t-shirts from Spooky (aka Bart Simpson Cycles), I'm pretty confident that he'll deliver them within a couple of weeks (although he'll send the wrong color and apologize for it --instead of asking you if you mind accepting the color change). Order a bike from Mickey and you will most likely be waiting a very, very long time for something that may or may not be ship-shape.

Anyhow, McKay wants something snappy --the Spooky's are nimble handling-wise, very stiff, no snap at all --not under my modest little power generator anyhow.

The Spooky's are all made in Vermont by Frank the welder these days. My Skeletor is straight as an arrow. It is a great race bike, stiff and responsive. Comfy when I ride 90 psi. I just ordered a Thomson seatpost and stem from Spooky tonight. Thomson = another U.S. company. When I line up to race this season I will be on a frame, headset, fork, stem, seatpost and wheelset that were all made in the U.S.A. Does it matter where it's made??? That depends, do slave wages and factory conditions that would make Upton Sinclair blush matter to you? Everytime someone buys a Chinese carbon frame, they have just placed an order for its replacement. I don't want to be out riding my cheap plastic bike and be wondering if the 14 year old kid who worked on it in a poorly ventilated, coal burning factory has a black lung becuase of me. Yacks


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/mr-daisey-and-the-apple-factory

Frank Waddleton (a/k/a Frank The Welder) taught me to weld and his work is usually flawless (unlike mine). I wonder if some of the defective Spookys were fabricated by someone else for Mickey? Anyone know?

That was a good episode of TAL, Yacks. Ira Glass's demeanor gets on my nerves though, even though I generally agree with his sentiments.

Yes a big aluminum manufacturer in Oregon that is no longer building bikes....

I suppose there's really not much to talk about. It is what it is. But anyway, here's my thought - please feel free to mail in your pennies:

Why are merino wool jersey's so expensive? I don't think I've ever seen one for less than $60 on sale. Yet, they sell merino wool sweaters at the GAP and elsewhere regularly for substantially less than that - a few weeks ago I scored a handsome, grey, half zip mock neck sweater, with a wonderfully blue inner-collar detail, for less than $20.

Where's the difference coming from? Aren't there ever wool jerseys that the merchant must clear to make way for a new season of goods?

Feel free to not comment at your liberty.

While the raw material is basically the same, the production of the two is significantly different. Sweaters for GAP are relatively mass produced items whereas woll cycling jerseys are small batch production runs. Economies of scale allow GAP to keep the price down.
Then the products themselves are very different. The GAP sweater is a crew or v-neck ? The cycling jersey needs a zip put in. The cycling jersey needs three pockets sewing on. The cycling jersey is (probably) not a solid single color, but instead has some styling harking back to 50's-70's cycling era. Finally the actual knit of the two products is very different. A cycling top is a slightly heavier knit yet much tighter to help 'protect' against the wind. The cut is to a finer tolerance so that it fits nicely when in a riding position on the bike.
Basically there is a LOT more work that goes into the production of a wool cycling jersey.

This is so random.

Erm, impressive contribution to the thread Ian. No joke. Was that your thesis title?

haha. Yeah, where have you been hiding Daniel? We miss you. xoxoxo

Ian covered everything except the fact that the prices are also jacked up b/c it's catering to CYCLISTS, the new golf hobby for middle aged rich dudes (not that there's anything wrong with that. I love my Rapha/Cervelo trickle down eBay stuff at a third of the cost).

Plus, the quality of the wool on the cycling jersey is probably higher in addition to the heavier knit. Italian or New Zealand merino, not some faux-merino from Somalia, right?

Speaking of New Zealand merino wool, Icebreaker stuff rocks. And through Sunday, I believe you can get 50% off any one item at their store in meatpacking district (I think that's where) if you say "Baaaaa" at the counter when checking out.

Icebreaker is made in China.... and so are many of the Rapha pieces.

Mosr of Ibex is made here in the states.

You.can probably find a tailor online who will make you some wool jerseys for a reasonable price... Not Gap cheap, but probably less than retail Rapha, Ibex, etc.

Ps. Yacks should weigh-in here... Surely he will share his source for titanium-enriched wool (but don't give him a hard time about where that Ti is mined).

Right, but the material is *supposedly* italian or new zealand. Hopefully.... It is odd how Rapha stuff can randomly be "made in" Italy, China, Portugal, etc. depending upon the item. I just don't know much about the fabrication process costs. Also not one to bash stuff just b/c it's not made in USA. As long as it's made well and hasn't been done in horrid conditions (those secret iPhone pics weren't reassuring!). It's silly to think that taiwan, china, etc. can't make great products.

I dunno, I can feel a difference between it and GAP stuff, but again, I'm not saying it's worth the 10x higher price, just nice when you can get it cheap.

Where is that Arx'Tyekxxxyskakx stuff from? I tried on a jacket at Paragon and liked but then looked at the $700 price tag.

I'm pretty sure they are expensive so poor people can't afford them. That keeps them hip.

All my fancy riding clothes are made by "Rafa." Is that bad?