NYC Spring Cycling Series 2013

Mar 25, 2013 at 01:58 AM

I should add that Handsome Joe and I raced the 1/2/3 in Central Park on Saturday. We're both in decent shape, I liked our chances at getting something.

Seemed like we were picking the wrong moves early on. We still got in some good digs, just wrong combinations I guess. A break was just beyond jumping across solo for the much of the final two laps. We tried both attacking to get a split and riding hard in a semi-coordinated chase, nothing was quite working--probably because too many others thought it would come back regardless.

It was just about shut down going into horseshit alley. Joe, in what I think was his first time negotiating the 1/2/3 pre-sprint rumble in Central Park, did an admirable job helping me move up on the right side. Wait when pinched to the gully on the right, accelerate when the road goes left. Only problem was the guys at the front totally lost gas at 70th street. And we had Jomentum. He brought me past everyone, and I was nicely deposited at the front, only a bit sooner than ideal. I rode through most of the remainder of the break, led the field into the sprint (when in doubt, lead it out says Charlie I), stood, had had about five good revs before the legs rebelled. After I was passed by ten guys, I sat up, dejected, disappointed that I wasted the opportunity Joe helped make happen.

On the dispiriting, but nice side, the guy who got second, first in the field, rode off me for the placing, and thanked me. No prize split.

Alex Vaughan

Mar 25, 2013 at 02:02 AM

@Jules That's hilarious. I'm second in that deathmarch. I was a little too successful in my "ride to the front, fade to the back" strategy. I hope I didn't let @isuckatnames dangle too long, but I was lucky to spend no time in the wind as we hit the hill and I just faaaded to the back.

My wife says that picture looks really pro. I think she's confused.

David Yang

Mar 25, 2013 at 02:02 AM

Jules said:

Cat 5's take a look at this and commit it to memory. Now don't do it again

sweet jeebus, what lap was that?

Jules

Mar 25, 2013 at 02:14 AM

What a great race to watch! Here are some pictures. I froze my BALLS off for the first few laps then wrangled my way into the P123 pace car where the better pictures got taken. SO interesting to "see" how the P123 breaks happen, get countered, etc.

It was fun watching Canadian Mike and JP work their respective breaks. One highlight was this guy (below, I thought publishing his face for the world to mock was a bit douche) riding in the middle of the field, ignoring cars, motos, breaks, marshalls, cones, chase groups and permits etc whilst yelling "Share the road!" and "It's a bike lane!"

I shook my head and pointed sadly to my temple which he may have thought was commentary on his brains... but no... he was also wearing his helmet backwards

@John M I think this is the same guy that went completely mental on us last summer...

2Z0A3351.jpg

Alex Vaughan

Mar 25, 2013 at 02:21 AM

@David 4th or 5th; we were like that for about half of the eastern runup, I think.

WilliamDC

Mar 25, 2013 at 02:25 AM

@jules: that picture is amazeballs!

David Yang

Mar 25, 2013 at 02:34 AM

Alex Vaughan said:

@David 4th or 5th; we were like that for about half of the eastern runup, I think.

I hear if they catch us doing that again, Jeff White will make us "ride tempo".

Alex Vaughan

Mar 25, 2013 at 02:45 AM

Say no and go! And tell!

I need an adult. Does Konditori count?

Phil Maronilla

Mar 25, 2013 at 02:53 AM

@Brendan - "unless this odd sore throat and sniffles develops into something more sinister, i'll be at sunday's PP race"
Its a good thing that didn't develop into something more sinister.. congrats bro!

jim_nelson

Mar 25, 2013 at 12:22 PM

Recap of our 3/4 race yesterday to document that we actually raced.

First race of the season for me. Lined up with Tito, Jeff W, and Aly. Started off quick (catching the Masters in the first lap) with steady attacking until we finally let one of the Black Tie guys go out solo. He's out of site for a while and his team does a great job of blocking and covering anything that tries to bridge. Eventually we reel him back in by about lap 5.

More attacks and on lap 7 (I think) a break of 5 forms with some strong characters including Lance S (who had me totally confused because he was in an Organic Athlete kit), Paul from Rockstar, and two of the Black Tie guys (this years Scottos?). They quickly get a decent gap and we spend some time at the front of the field helping chase but no dice (the biggest team in the race Montecci doesn't work together at all).

On lap 8 I am putting in my turn at the front of the chase when Jeff rolls by with Aly on his wheel. I think I know what they intend so I dial back the pace by about 1/2 mph and let a gap form. Jeff turns on the gas (though he would later tell me it felt like anything but that) and the two of them are pulling away. Aly launches on the hill and he gets a decent gap. A couple guys bolt out of the bunch to join him and they dangle out there for a while but it doesn't look like it coalesces and it gets swallowed back up.

Soon after, my early season fitness (or lack there of) becomes apparent, my legs seize, and I pull out in time to watch Lance take the sprint from the group of 5.

Brendan Rigby

Mar 25, 2013 at 02:09 PM

thanks for the congrats, everyone! it was a team effort. mr. clifford describes it well. we worked well as a team overall, with no one of us spending too much time killing ourselves at the front without a good reason. mark's "organize!" shout did indeed cause me to rethink what i was doing. our pre-race discussions had dubbed me the sprinter, so i made it a goal not to expend too much energy during the race. i hid behind/on the lee side of mark, wes, and rick for more than a couple minutes. that i still had legs to sprint at the end is thanks to my teammates.

it was fun to race on a course i'm familiar with. i joined kissena because i was sick of racing myself around prospect park all the time. my knowledge of my own abilities to expend effort on that course is much better than other courses, as i've been doing laps around it for a year or so now. cycling seems to be as much about energy management as it is raw power.

pace was indeed easy for about 6 laps, not much to say. we were neutralized at one point. everyone slowed down except for Captain Red who I can only assume he rides for Amazon.com given the amount of Pearl Izumi he was wearing. he stopped for no rider. including the rider of the motorcycle, who was a refereee and attempting to get him to slow down. i wonder if he was related to the backwards-helmet-300 guy ("This. Is. Bike Lane!").

some upping of the pace on the hill in the final laps. i was going to let what became the break go because it began on the hill, which i thought might bring it back. but then i saw series leader Sven hop on board and decided i wasn't going to let him get too far. also, the easy laps leading to that point meant there was no physical impediment to chasing.

after the break, i decided that i was going to rest up in anticipation for that final effort. so for that last lap i was in fourth position, behind #1 a guy on a blue and orange colnago bike, #2 someone i don't know, and #3 sven. they accelerated gently over the course of that final lap. at one point, david hall of ride brooklyn came up on the side but i was determined not to let anyone get in and steal my sweet drafting spot, so he ended up having to sit on the outside and suck wind.

the sprint: the two guys in the front got out of the saddle right about where that metal gate/do not enter sign usually is. i thought "holy shit this is way too soon" but sven got out of the saddle too so i decided i had no choice. the two spread out to occupy more space, so sven had to get out and around them on the right. while he was swinging right, i started sprinting up the left. i continued doing that for what seemed like an impossibly long time. 50 yards before the finish i remember thinking "what the fuck, this is taking forever, i must have slowed down, someone is going to catch me." sprint was so long i shifted twice. maybe that's a normal length sprint but it was big news to this cat 5! i even threw my bike across the line in an effort to regain that 'pro' factor that my hi viz (but exceptionally warm and windproof) jacket took from me.

highlights & lessons:

pulling off to the side to down a gel was a good thing. those jersey pockets are tough to get into with giant lobster gloves on! mmm, lobster...
i finally beat my nemesis, series leader Sven Mikalsen, who always finishes 1-3 places ahead of me, which is just close enough to be a nemesis rather than role model.
getting in the aero tuck on the downhill made sense. went about as fast as the soft-pedalers with none of the effort.
in retrospect, i think a top-of-the-hill attack of the attack (counterattack?) would've worked. if you broke the hill into quartiles, it seems that the winning attack occurred from 1 to 3, with 3 still being a bit before the false flat towards the top. i was tempted to (but did not because i wasn't sure i'd be able to stay away) attack at that 3-4 spot when people had decelerated. might be something to try next time. when i'm doing laps by myself, that 3-4 spot is usually where i stand up and accelerate (but then again, i typically have to decelerate around the corner due to exhaustion...so maybe not).
i thought i was getting better at in-race comprehension, but i guess not. it was not until after the race that i discovered we were in a breakaway. at one point i looked back and thought i saw the main group but i guess i just saw 5-7 guys behind me and they were a breakaway not the main group. i need to get better at counting helmets.
need to learn how to tape my handlebars correctly; vigorous sprints dislodge the tape below the shifter
it was great to have so many teammates! our saturday "let's try to figure out where we can sprint from" drill helped.

question: what's the etiquette on taking a pull when you're not in a break? when do you become a "passenger"/"notorious wheel sucker"? i avoided pulling pretty much this entire race. does that make me smart, or an asshole? i feel like i won the sprint because i waited for the three guys in front of me to go and then i jumped them, having rested on their wheels for a while. strategically, is it on them to shake me? was it their error for accelerating too much and effectively leading me out? or did i commit a bike racing sin (i recall reading something about sagan doing this to cancellara)?

Chris Pedersen

Mar 25, 2013 at 03:07 PM

Woops. I was trying to catch up going into the hill and suddenly realized that I was in front. Noted, will learn from this.

Jules said:

Cat 5's take a look at this and commit it to memory. Now don't do it again

Mark Clifford

Mar 25, 2013 at 06:23 PM

to the master tacticians: i have a question related to yesterday's race and future strategy.

with the break well established and about 1/2 mile to go, we had brendan riding fourth wheel and me at i think sixth or seventh. no one was really pushing and i was riding easily enough at mid-tempo and so felt as though i had more to give. as we got closer to the finish i was debating whether to a) just sit where i was, mindful that brendan was well-positioned; or b) come up around the side, grab brendan, and then start some form of two-man lead-out.

from my recollection, there was only one other two-man team left in the break (the ride brooklyn guys) and so only one challenge from the perspective of another team organizing ahead of us. and no one person up until the end showed themselves massively stronger than the others, and so i felt as though if we got a good lead-out, we'd be putting ourselves ahead.

ultimately the end result was a good one, but i was left wondering whether in future races a different (i.e. start the lead-out) strategy may have been a better bet. any thoughts?

separately, any advice as to how one can stop replaying races in one's fucking head over and over and over again?

Mark Clifford

Mar 25, 2013 at 06:40 PM

to clarify, i was not thinking about starting the break 1/2 mile out... i doubt that would have worked. in my head i was thinking to start at or around where the road goes from being well paved to, well, not so well paved. this is about 100m up from where we normally end our practice sprinting at the traffic lights. from there i felt as though i could have gone hard (though likely killed myself for the sprint... though i guess that is part of a lead-out).

Phil Maronilla

Mar 25, 2013 at 06:43 PM

@Mark - "separately, any advice as to how one can stop replaying races in one's fucking head over and over and over again?"

Good luck sleeping..

Chris Pedersen

Mar 25, 2013 at 06:44 PM

Mark,

I agree with you and ponder the same thing of how to stop replaying the race in your head over and over again. It just makes you want to get back into another race ASAP.

mperlberg

Mar 25, 2013 at 06:45 PM

as I see it:

1) shepherd brendan and be his one man lead-out. he doesn't necessarily need to be on right on your wheel but having you up the tempo as hard as you can and then die will set him up for a clean fast sprint.

2) attack from far out. force other teams to chase you. brendan sits in an follows and then unleashes a terrific sprint on otherwise tired riders.

FWIW, you won't stop replaying the race until at least the next race.

Mike Garrigan

Mar 25, 2013 at 06:45 PM

I'm uploading the photos now. Hey Canadian Mike - your tires look a little low - what PSI were you running?

Yeah Jules, those tires where on the comfy side of things. My guess would be 65psi- appologies to anyone who chose to follow me through the rough sections. They are high volume challenge Paris Roubaix tires so no worries really. Unless I buy a new pump and some proper chain lube ill likly be at 55psi and cooking oil again next weekend.

(apparently not fullly "pro" Marc!!)

On that note- does anyone in p-park area have an EXTRA floor pump they would like to loan out till April 2nd?

MikeG

dstokes

Mar 25, 2013 at 06:52 PM

JP or Marc will give their definitive advice. In the meantime, I think you could have tried to jump the group from way out (.75-1k) and tried for a solo win. The idea here would be to jump hard enough to get a gap and surprise those waiting for 200m line to start their sprint. The group would have to decide what to do while Brendan rode their wheels to the 200m line. The keenest guy would likely chase you down, therefore shooting his wad and setting up Brendan to take the sprint.

I suppose you could do a conventional leadout: just get to the group and grind away with Brendan on your wheel, but then you risk a faster sprinter taking advantage of that situation by jumping around Brendan at the crucial moment. Deciding between the two requires knowing your competition, which you may not have the luxury of at this early stage in your career. And Brendan needs to realize what you are doing and exercise patience, knowing he is going to get a cut of the winnings either way.

Jeffrey White

Mar 25, 2013 at 07:16 PM

I also like the 1k move in that situation. You WILL burn one or two folks up -- and you might even win. Best to do it right when the biggest threat is pulling off the front. It is then up to Brendan to follow wheels and capitalize however he thinks best. Just make sure that when you go, it is a full-on, hernia-inducing attack. You need to get a gap to maximize havoc.

If you choose to do a traditional leadout (also totally legit, just takes more finesse IMHO), make sure you don't go too early.

mperlberg

Mar 25, 2013 at 07:46 PM

stokes describe much more clearly what I was getting at in #2.

eragot

Mar 25, 2013 at 07:54 PM

I'm uploading the photos now. Hey Canadian Mike - your tires look a little low - what PSI were you running?
Yeah Jules, those tires where on the comfy side of things. My guess would be 65psi- appologies to anyone who chose to follow me through the rough sections. They are high volume challenge Paris Roubaix tires so no worries really. Unless I buy a new pump and some proper chain lube ill likly be at 55psi and cooking oil again next weekend.

(apparently not fullly "pro" Marc!!)

On that note- does anyone in p-park area have an EXTRA floor pump they would like to loan out till April 2nd?

MikeG

I have three in my house and one in the car. I'll be back on the 29th. Borrow away. Eric

tito

Mar 25, 2013 at 10:19 PM

Awesome job Brendan, and the Kat5 Krew!

And Canadian Mike - yessssss!

Brendan Rigby

Mar 25, 2013 at 10:46 PM

there needs to be a "thanks" button. thanks tito and all others who offered their congratulations!

dstearns

Mar 25, 2013 at 11:04 PM

nice work to all the Cat 5's....and everyone who pinned on numbers and raced this weekend.

also, in the spirit of "perception is 9/10ths of the law" - the rest of the NYC cycling world thinks Canadian Mike took 1st on Sunday: http://nyvelocity.com/content/race-results/2013/hangover-march-25-2013

"there's no question about who got 1st place @ PP. Mike Garrigan positively got 1st (by a long shot). It was close between 2nd & 3rd. Breach deserved it but Stalin got it. 4th clearly went to Dioslaki and 5th clearly went to Pimental Jr."

Marc Bertucco

Mar 26, 2013 at 12:16 AM

@Brendan, I think if you make a habit of getting in breaks and not working with your breakmates to help keep them away, it's going to bite you in the ass eventually.

It's in your best interest to sprint against fewer people, so if taking a pull ever few minutes can help you reach that goal, then you should. Otherwise, you are relying on everyone else to work to keep the group away and that may or may not work. In some cases guys will get so pissed off, they will cut off their own noses despite their faces and stop working too at best, and at worst, they may slot right in front of you and let a gap open up, forcing you to jump around them to close the gap down.

The "problem" you have right now is that you are just so much stronger than many of your Cat 5 competitors, so you are getting away with shit that's just not going to fly as you jump up to Cat 4s and 3s and beyond.

Take advantage of your power/strength advantage and try some new tactics in races to come. When guys start to "go early" that doesn't mean you have to find your own daylight, and "go early" too. How about following their wheels and jumping around in the last 50 meters working on your leg speed and acceleration, instead of brute diesel power.

But yes, you are in danger of "doucheyness" if you continue to sit on breaks and not do a lick of work before the final sprint. Part of that is who you are.

Here's a counter example where I would get lots of hateful stares and vitriol directed at me, but I would actually be in the right tactically, from a team racing point of view to sit in and not take a pull.

If I, as the 1/2/3s weakest team rider, got lucky and was in a break with Mengoni's Breech, Foundation's Chabanov and a few other hammer-heads, while I had my MUCH stronger teammates, Garrigan, Partland and Perlberg back in the field, it is absolutely my responsibility to not get ridden out of this break. And since I have about 2-5 hours a week to train, there is absolutely NO way in hell I can keep up with the semi-pros who are both 1/2 my age and 4-5 times as much time as me to train.

However, I might be able to ride their wheels. Until my peeps from MY team either bridge up, or help chase down the move to set up a counter-attack. Say for example, Vlad, JP and Perlberg, take turns at the front chasing the move down, so that when the move is at about 5-9 seconds, Garrigan lays down a 1200-watt acceleration to form the next (winning?) move.

So yeah, guys are going to holler at me and bitch about how I'm not pulling through, and maybe I'll pull through as hard as I can without getting dropped the second I pull off the front, but I'm certainly not going kill myself for 1/2 a lap just to keep from getting yelled at by a bunch of guys who are in diff't leagues than me. My job is to race for a good team result. And if by some miracle, the group stays away with me in it, then it is also my responsibility to give it my all in the sprint (which I'm actually not too shabby at), even if I sat on all day. Because I'm racing for the team. Guys will be pissed. But I don't wear a Mengoni or Foundation jersey.

A few years back, I was in the winning break with a Mengoni who refused to take a single pull all day long because his team sprinter "Pollo" was back in the field. In the end the Mengoni attacks on the last lap and wins the day. I think I ended up with some dick spot of course. So only I remember the douchiness of that all (because he, was not a weak rider, he was quite strong in his own right, one of their best endurance/rolleurs and should have contributed...he just wasn't "Pollo." But let's not get me started on the cycling fantasy that believes they are a team called "Mengoni." I'll just get angry and bitter and jealous), everyone else will just remember that he won the race.

But for you, ostensibly the strongest cat 5 on the Kissena club, and one of the strongest Cat 5s out there, you can't exactly use that line of logic. With great power come great responsibility.

mperlberg

Mar 26, 2013 at 01:27 AM

Marc,

This is a great description.

I will share my story from yesterday that is similar but not the same.

Canadian Mike's break was up the road. A group of 3 attack and are chasing hard. I get on their heels quickly. We have separation from the field and it is clear the riders know what they are doing and have some watts. It is the CCB guy, Champ Sys guy, and the guy from some long Island club. 2 of the 3 ended up in the final chase group so they were obviously strong.

I pull through to get things separated from the field, but it is clear we are closing in on Canadian Mike's group pretty quickly. I don't get in the way but I just sit on the back a bit. Then we get closer and Canadian Mike's group is within spitting distance. I know if I contribute my watts to the group we catch. But one guy in my group looks like a sprinter. I'm pretty confident mike can win from the group up the road. No need to decrease our club's odds of winning, so I start sitting in.

Things get dicey. The Champ Sys guy calls me an asshole. The CCB guy says "there are way too many strong guys up the road, your guy has no chance." etc. I pull through but don't actually work to keep them mollified.

I state very clearly in my calm teacher voice I use when a student is going Berserker, "there is no need to call me an asshole, my guy up the road will win out of that break. I'm only practicing good bike racing tactics, nothing else."

They let me sit in and they were dispirited, eventually allowing us to be reabsorbed by a larger chase group.

Anyway, he apologized to me after the race. He was obviously trying to bully me into cooperating.

So @Brendan

the short answer is you need to know why you aren't working. Is it to be a dick? Is it because you are protecting a teammate up the road? Is it because you can't hang in the break? You need to figure that out.

FWIW - look to the branchbrook thread. If you're in a break and are going to get dropped, of course sit in! Don't get dropped from the winning break.

Ryan J

Mar 26, 2013 at 02:12 AM

FWIW - look to the branchbrook thread. If you're in a break and are going to get dropped, of course sit in! Don't get dropped from the winning break.

Ahem...

Marc Bertucco

Mar 26, 2013 at 02:55 AM

@ Mark Clifford. I think either technique can be effective. Key here is going to be communication. Your team has to know what the plan is. Because if they are expecting an organized leadout, you have your heart set on a last K flying leap of glory...then some folks are going to be UPSET. Especially if it doesn't end in Kissena taking home some prizes of glory.

My only problem with the last K long bomb solo attack, is that this is only an effective technique for a good team result if one of the following two things happen.

You are so strong, and take the field by such surprise that you hold them off and you take victory. (this is a rare, rare case in the park races that such a solo attack will win the day, but there are still guys who will solo attack at Tavern on the Green in CP races on the last lap.)

OR

Your move incites the rest of the field to motivate to chase stringing things out, allowing your team's designated sprinter to surf the front of the field, keeping himself in good position to close the deal.

Because you don't want to be the dude who takes the 1K to go flyer, only to have the field just watch you go off the front chuckle as you flame out and die. Because that's just a waste of a perfectly good set of legs. Don't let your legs go to waste.

A couple of years back, we had a guy in the Pro 1/2/3 field who was going for KOM points. Last race of the series, and I found myself off the front with a couple of K to go before the line. It was late enough in the year that people stopped confusing me for JP, so they let me go. Their bad. I was about 5 meters from taking the last KOM sprint from the dudes who had battling all season for it. As it was, I hung onto 3rd, and kept my teammates primary competition from getting any points on that day.

The point of all this, is that I want you all to think about how your actions may affect the dynamics of the race, how your efforts will impact the overall success of your teammates. There are going to be moments when one tactic offers a higher probability of success over the another, but there are so, so, so many ways even relatively constant park races will shake out, that you have to be constantly thinking and rethinking your strategy during the race.

All this said, I am a BIG FAN of going out and trying diff't tactics in our Park Races, especially when you are new to racing. PP and CP are the closest thing to cycling laboratories; where you can really go out and try different things to help you learn and grow as a racer. Look no matter how many times we say things, recommend tactics, warn against others, sometimes you just have to go out and try it for yourself and see how things work out. We encourage that. It's the best way to learn sometimes.

Jules

Mar 26, 2013 at 03:02 PM

One bit of advice for the 5's that stuck with me was, "try everything"

Park races are great for that