Aug 14, 2013 at 08:05 PM
We are all tools.
Bike Fit
Aug 14, 2013 at 08:58 PM
Didn't want to leave a long post - yes it is a generalization. Flexibility is generally the issue. Inexperienced riders tend to have more issues with this than not. 'Generally' perineal issues are from rotating the hips forward with the seat too high. And honestly, I thought my bike fit was good as well until I went to see him - it felt really odd at first but quickly saw a difference. I would also not glean any particular philosophy from my post; his blog is much more helpful. http://www.acmebicycleco.com/blog/
Here is a great post on positioning: http://www.acmebicycleco.com/314/
And Jeff; you seem like the oddity but glad its working. I've been riding for about 5 years now, so not that long, My personal observation is that a lot of people ride cut out or seats designed to relieve perineal pressure, 2) don't have a bend in their knee at the bottom of their stroke - again, personal observation. On looking "Pro" or having a pro fit, they are pros and have worked toward that position. The vast majority of us are not professional athletes, we probably sit a lot, this causes fit issues; check out the post: http://www.acmebicycleco.com/on-looking-pro/
Mar 12, 2014 at 07:03 PM
This thread has some cobwebs on it, but I'm in the market for a fitting and wanted to bump to see if anyone had any more recent recommendations.
I've never really felt much pain from riding, until this weekend. New-to-me Felt CX bike purchased over the winter, that I had previously only done 20 to 30 miles rides on. Raced at Grant's Tomb, and the next day rode 55 miels and realized once home that I could barely walk on my right leg. Muscles/tendons behind my right knee were VERY sore. I haven't ridden since then, and the pain has subsided. Some googling leads me to believe my saddle was too high and I was overcompensating by stretching, but it was also my first weekend riding new shoes/pedals, which may have played into the problem.
All of this goes to say, is a $350 fit from ACME really going to be $200 better than a more basic fit from somewhere like Ride Brooklyn? I'd like to spend as little as possible, like everyone, but am willing to invest what I have to to prevent long term injury as this bike will be seeing a lot of miles between road riding and CX racing.
Mar 13, 2014 at 12:55 AM
Do it right the first time. I had a Guru fit last winter from Brickwell because they had a sale....well you get what you pay for. When I went to ACME the fit took about 3 hours and it went deep. Retul & Guru were used plus a pretty thorough examination of my flexibility, which should really be included in any fit. Anywho, sensors were applied and video taken then retaken. End result was a pretty major renovation in my fit. Cranks were shortened...cleats pushed as far inboard as they would go...stem shortened by 20mm and raised. My knees are shit, but at least now I am confident that I am not doing more harm to them due to a bad fit. My pushed back and shortened position finds me with far less lower back pain, which hadn't even been a complaint when I went for the fit. I just figured I had a bad back. Spend the extra $$$ to buy piece of mind. An overuse injury will cost you in ibuprofen and dr. visits. PREACH !
Mar 13, 2014 at 12:59 AM
@Jesselash I'd venture to say it's worth even more than the 200 difference in price.
Mar 13, 2014 at 03:55 AM
I love all these funny stories even though a bike fit is a colossal waste of money. If you want the correct "fit," do the following:
1. Get a mirror.
2. Note how un-pro you look.
3. Lengthen your stem, saddle set-back, and sock cuffs appropriately.
4. Remove all spacers everywhere.
5. Get a better tan.
6. Lose 15 pounds.
There, your bike fits now. The savings in sunblock and food will put you a further $200 in the black.
Mar 13, 2014 at 10:41 AM
Acme - I'm also a believer. More power, more comfort. Not more pro though. I've got all my spacers in.
Mar 13, 2014 at 12:25 PM
Mike whitey's insight goes double for you.
Mar 14, 2014 at 01:01 AM
Is there any transitional period in terms of getting used to things? I figure a fit that fits would just feel right, but at the same time, how could it not feel weird for at least a little while?
Mar 14, 2014 at 02:08 AM
you have to adjust to a new fit. If a new fit is a significant change a fitter may suggest making the changes incrementally.
Mar 14, 2014 at 02:33 AM
Totally depends on how different it is from the previous.ian ellis said:you have to adjust to a new fit. If a new fit is a significant change a fitter may suggest making the changes incrementally.
Mar 14, 2014 at 02:34 AM
I just got a fit done by Mike Sherry at Bikeridersnyc on Grand St Williamsburg on Sunday. He changed a few things including raising my seat up by an inch to help with some left knee pain (left leg is longer and foot has a weak arch on that side) and he lowered my stem by a little over half an inch.konrad said:Is there any transitional period in terms of getting used to things? I figure a fit that fits would just feel right, but at the same time, how could it not feel weird for at least a little while?
I like the new position. But the change does feel pretty different and kind of weird with new muscles coming into play.I've ridden it about 5 hours since. I'm having a little bit of a hard time differentiating between dissipating old knee pain and some new mild soreness from the changed position..
He anticipates us needing to do at least one if not two followups to sort out my knee etc(he might shim my right cleat). I imagine each tweak will feel a little different
Mar 14, 2014 at 04:28 AM
It will feel odd for a week or so...muscles acclimate. Be sure to double up on your stretching and tone down the hard efforts for a week. Ultimately, you are going to be where you are supposed to be on the bike and your muscles, tendons, vertebrae and bits & pieces will be grateful.
Mar 14, 2014 at 05:14 AM
i figured that the bike fit changes as you get more flexible and build stronger core muscle. Instead of spending money on a professional fit i brought myself a roman chair ^^. The pro look is the only way to go!
Mar 14, 2014 at 03:16 PM
@RickPerner, what made you choose Bike Riders NYC over ACME?
Mar 14, 2014 at 04:35 PM
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Mar 14, 2014 at 08:15 PM
@jesselash
I went w Mike Sherry because ........in no particular order
A)he has a comparable rep to Acme
he is located only 5 minutes from my place in Greenpoint
C)the price for my next fit will be $175 ie fits after your initial fit are only half
D)his shop manager is an occasional dog walking client/friend of mine who rides cross for Cicli Devotion
I
I went w Mike Sherry because ........in no particular order
A)he has a comparable rep to Acme
he is located only 5 minutes from my place in GreenpointC)the price for my next fit will be $175 ie fits after your initial fit are only half
D)his shop manager is an occasional dog walking client/friend of mine who rides cross for Cicli Devotion
I
Mar 14, 2014 at 09:02 PM
Thanks Rick. I actually work at Kent and Grand, and Bike Riders NYC would be much more convenient, so I appreciate the feedback.
Mar 14, 2014 at 09:16 PM
Btw, ACME did my free follow up fit (which is included with every fit) on a second bike. So, there was effectively no charge for the second bike or the second fit. My overall experience with Blyer was overwhelmingly positive. See my earlier posts in this thread for the description.
Mar 20, 2014 at 02:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsoFD_rhNkQ
Oct 28, 2014 at 10:40 AM
Short of getting an actual bike fit, how is everyone' fit on their cross bikes compared to their road bikes? I have a CAADX and a CAAD10 and I'm trying to make the fits similar.
- Anyone here tried to adjust a CAADX to match a CAAD10 fit?
- Is this even the goal? How does a CX fit vary from a road fit?
- Do people end up using longer stems on CX bikes? CAADX has taller head tube, more slanted head tube angle (CAAD10's is closer to vertical).
Oct 28, 2014 at 11:49 AM
Brendan, in general, you should try to match up the fit pretty closely, but for many, including guys like Adam Myerson, his saddle is a smidge lower, and his reach SHORTER and more upright.
JP probably has conflicting advice on this point. #slamthatstem #inthedrops
Oct 28, 2014 at 12:33 PM
Brendan I think you can take a look at some pictures and quickly see that the CX setup is much more relaxed than road.
Aerodynamics are not a concern, but power and stability are.
CX setups are far more upright.
If you try and mimic a road setup, you'll end up way too front weighted.
#YMMV
Oct 28, 2014 at 01:03 PM
You can go with the +6 degree rise on the sten and not get made fun of!
Oct 28, 2014 at 01:29 PM
Brendan,
I'm riding a 56 CaaD 10 and a 54 CaaDX. Even with that, even with my stem nearly slammed (not quite because the top cap/integrated housing stop is much taller than the Slam That Stem top cap on my road bike), even with a 10mm longer stem, my bars are actually higher and closer on the cross bike.
Some go for identical, some push the bars up a bit and the saddle down a bit. A few folks seem to prefer a more forward saddle position on the cross bike.
My feeling is start with nearly identical, matching saddle and bars if you can) and then adjust as you see fit. In terms of saddle position, most cx pedal and shoe combinations have a much taller combined stack height than most road shoe and pedal combinations (particularly if you run Speedplay). So right there, you lose a little height. Some believe that by having it a smidge lower still, your back will hurt less because your legs can absorb more of the bumps and you can more easily move around on the saddle.
I've heard the claim, "If you try and mimic a road setup, you'll end up way too front weighted." before. I don't understand it. Many believe the 'ideal' road balance is 45% of your weight on the front wheel, and 55% on the rear. I don't know how this would be bad in 'cross. Further, a lower center of gravity is unquestionably better for turning, and when you consider how many times there are corners sharper than 90 degrees in cross, a lower center of gravity could well result in a positive marginal gain, or not so marginal, on a course with many turns. I guess if your rear wheel slips or your front wheel hits a rock too hard, you've got too much weight on the front end, but otherwise, there are few times when it would present a problem. Perhaps when riding sand or goopy mud, or going down a super-steep hill, it could be better to have more weight on the rear wheel. But more weight on the front should be good when climbing a steep hill or having your tires bite into the ground on a turn. At worst, it seems like a draw,where you gain in one direction, you lose in another.
To me, the bar height equation is simple. You want to be comfortable using the entire bar for the duration of the race. If you can't ride the drops comfortably, then the bars are too low.
Oct 28, 2014 at 02:10 PM
Ummm, I wouldn't use the word "comfortable" in relation to 'cross
My bars are higher, my reach is shorter. I think the wheelbase is longer and the BB height is definitely higher on my 'cross bike. Completely different feel. I don't know about weighting . . . I use a vibrato technique depending on the course conditions.
I used to use a smaller frame (56 for 'cross vs. 58 for road). Not any more. My 58 cm van Dessel feels great. I think slamming the stem and stretching out leads to the back pain people have been complaining about. You need power and your lower back shouldn't be doing the work.
My bars are higher, my reach is shorter. I think the wheelbase is longer and the BB height is definitely higher on my 'cross bike. Completely different feel. I don't know about weighting . . . I use a vibrato technique depending on the course conditions.
I used to use a smaller frame (56 for 'cross vs. 58 for road). Not any more. My 58 cm van Dessel feels great. I think slamming the stem and stretching out leads to the back pain people have been complaining about. You need power and your lower back shouldn't be doing the work.
Oct 28, 2014 at 04:27 PM
you are gonna get a ton of different opinion.
JP suggestions to start close to road are probably best. As you and Stokes also suggest obviously, geometry will be different, and depends on brand, some have super high old skool high bottom brackets (Ridley, Cannondale) some have lower bottom brackets, a la road (trek, van dessel, sachs)
Basically, there are 3 approaches:
1. Mimic road position -- obvious place to start
2. Closer to MTB, more upright, weight a bit more back
3. Closer to time trial position, shorter races, focus on power, saddle a bit higher slighty forward. This is the position I use. It is good for roadies.
Here's a photo I took of Gerry at SuperCross a few year ago. Demo pos #3:
Here are photos I took of Kristin Gavin and Dee Dee Winfield @ Fair Hill CX, they both come from MTB, example of pos 2:
cheers!
Nov 09, 2014 at 01:27 PM
GCN just posted this, which could be helpful to those getting started:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-Mh1hfLOXU
Nov 09, 2014 at 01:34 PM
--- the video is full great advice, except maybe the clincher tire pressure suggestions, if you race at those pressures you'll have a bad time.
Start at around 30psi and go up or down a few (2 to 8 psi's) from there. Find what works for you.
Gist is you want to find the lowest pressure you think you can get away with for any particular course.
Nov 09, 2014 at 02:37 PM
One note on tire pressure that bears repeating; the pressure you use for a conservative warmup lap will probably not be a good pressure for racing.
Do a lap (or a 1/2 lap) at race pace to get a sense of what pressure will work at speed.
I think Chab wrote something like that in one of his Peloton articles.