and if chris froome had balls, he'd have finished the stage (not sure whether that would have made him your uncle though)

Not convinced that the angle that they are pussies if they complain/didn't finish is fair. Isn't this the same club with an extreme concussion policy, which in turn then chastises pros for not getting back on the horse for their 4th crash in 24 hours?

my comment was meant purely tongue in cheek.  if the dude had a concussion, then of course he should have abandoned.  my main point is that this stage was AWESOME and that TJVG should stop whining about it. 

Anyone else remember when David Millar went full cry-baby on the top of some mountain-top finish in some stage race, complaining that it was "too" whatever? #justsay'n

I know a lot of it is tongue in cheek but I chuckle a bit at the notion that anyone with access to this forum calls out the toughness or heart of any of these guys. And look, it's not just the riders that people love to pretend are soft (like TJV or Millar) speaking up. None other than Cancellara was very outspoken against the cobbles. He said its a shame to see the big gaps in GC and that cobbles like these have "nothing to do with a grand tour."

Cancellara was more mixed on the topic than that - I watched one of his interviews and he contradicted himself. He also pointed out that variety is what makes the Tour the Tour, (paraphrasing): what are they going to do next - take out the mountains and make me a GC contender? It's about luck AND skill. This stage wasn't a surprise for anyone - they had months and months to prepare for it. No way Froome prepared for cobbles as well as Nibali, or even Talansky. The better prepared riders and handlers survived today, and that's OK. As for calling out their toughness, can i assume that also means no more armchair commentary on the stoutness of the Cornhuskers defense this fall?

"The race was a mess. When I heard on the radio what was happening just with our riders, I could imagine what must be happening with the others - in my opinion this does not have a place in a Grand Tour" - said Fabian Cancellara today. How the heck does this make the rest of the tour more exciting? Every GC contender is now 2 minutes behind Nibali. David, you mention how well Talansky did - he's over two minutes off the lead! He now basically cannot win the tour. BTW, Terpstra was almost 4 minutes back today. I guess maybe he just wasn't prepared for the cobbles.

This discussion reminds me of another one that I try to stay out of called, "this race is/isn't a 'climbers race'" because like it, it's a matter of perspective and your personal opinion. So at the risk of getting flaming responses, here goes...

I find the prospect of seeing the other contenders and their teams trying to dislodge Nibali from his perch over the next 2 weeks exciting. We're really going to see what the teams and their riders can do.

Some of this "this tour is over" discussion is based on the assumption that Nibali will be strong in the mountains.

Over the years we've seen plenty of GC contendors loose minutes in a single mountain stage on a bad day.

I have ZERO problem with a hard stage like today being as decisive/influential on the overall as a mountain-top finish or a long TT.

I could argue that 1 week of watching sprinters duke it out, 10 days of climbers marking each other and 2-3 days of attacking only the highest/steepest mountain top finishes is rote and boring. But that's my opinion.

Froome arguable lost the tour not in Stage 5, but in Stage 4s crash when he most seriously injured his wrist making bike control difficult. He said so in an interview/tweet somewhere.

.

I don't agree that Nibali can't lose this race.  We have not gone up any climbs yet.  One bad day in the mtns and you can lose 30 minutes.  A flat at the wrong time or stomach cramps and it could be over.  Do we really want to see protected gc riders getting shepherded to climbs for 3 weeks?  They should put a tt in that requires riders to ride straight up a mtn and then down the other side thus testing your descending skills as well.  This race should produce the best bike rider, not just the best climber & TT rider.  Throw a crit in there !!!  I will not miss seeing Froome ride up a hill staring at his power meter.

The argument that just because formulaic racing is boring (10 days of sprints, then the power-to-weight show) does not lead to the inevitable conclusion that yesterday's stage is the solution.

Because the remaining guys won't  be as afraid to ATTACK!
Nibles is far from Paris and far from a sure bet.
After all, look at who won the Dauphine and how it was done. Totally surprising and awesome.

To me this stage felt more like the gritty roots of the race, and frankly, if it was going to be another year of Le Tour de Sky it would have been a yawn. I think that's why the race organizers went crazy pants on us with the narrow roads of England and the sketchy cobbles. If the riders were really that upset about the stage they could have pedaled it in as a group. I'd bet Nibbles won't be able to hold yellow, this is a pure climbers tour.

1904 Tour: "For the second stage, the organisers had made the option to postpone the start by two hours, in case the mistral wind was making cycling difficult. This was not necessary, so the riders started at midnight as planned.^[13] During this stage, Antoine Fauré lead close to his hometown, and 200 fans tried to stop the rest of the cyclists from following him. Garin hurt his hand during the incident, and Giovanni Gerbi was knocked unconscious, and had to give up with broken fingers.^[5] The situation was only solved after race officials fired shots in the air.^[2] Further on, nails and broken glass had been spread along the road, which caused many flat tires.^[14] Because of this help, Fauré was the first on top of the Col de la République, but was taken over by the favourites later. Aucouturier won the sprint.^[15] When the riders reached Marseille, they complained that there had been too many incidents in this stage, and the stage results should be cancelled. In the last part, they had been stopped by a large group of cyclists. Maurice Garin had been attacked, and his arm had been injured: he finished the stage steering with only one hand. There was so much confusion at the last controle post, that the exact arrival times of the cyclists were not recorded.^[14]

I'm with those who believe that stages like yesterday's should continue to be included. If they are to call this the Tour de France, then show all that France has to offer, including the cobbles of the north. It also means that more complete riders - those that can go up hill as well as time trial and handle a cobble or two - can have a better chance. For those of us that were following the sport in 80's and before, that's what we had. Riders like LeMond or Kelly could be contenders in both Grand Tours and cobbled classics. A rider like Kuiper could win Paris-Roubaix and on Alpe d'Huez. I think the specialization that has occurred in the sport makes it less dramatic and more corporate and predictable. I want to see surprises. And I do believe that having the race overall open up to different types of riders on different years makes it more interesting. If it was up to me, I'd also ban power meters during races. I want to see humans compete, not computers. I want to see chances taken, caution thrown to the wind, and maybe even a surprise or two. This is what Contador & co. now have to display if they want to win.

[spoiler]

Ryan J said:

"David, you mention how well Talansky did - he's over two minutes off the lead! He now basically cannot win the tour. BTW, Terpstra was almost 4 minutes back today. I guess maybe he just wasn't prepared for the cobbles.

Talansky was interviewed after the race, and was completely pumped by how he rode and where he finished in terms of the GC.  

Nibali could never have won the TdF without this cobble stage. He distinguished himself yet again as a master bike handler. Talanski would never be sitting this pretty without this cobble stage. Richie Port (a serviceable GC threat -- I think people count him out too easily) was a huge winner today, thanks to a very strong ride and massive work from Geraint. The GC effects of that stage were immense, and it was an absolute thrill watching it all "shake out."

Apparently TJ took back his comments a few minutes after making them. I think he got yelled at in the team bus. Hah.

I just read in Cyclingnews a comment by Horner on how Froome crashed. This makes me wonder what role carbon hoops played in all of the crashing. Astana used aluminum rim wheels. Not that they didn't crash, but it probably helped with the handling in the wet and muddy conditions. 

mperlberg said:

Apparently TJ took back his comments a few minutes after making them. I think he got yelled at in the team bus. Hah.

Guess who was telling TJ to STFU:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/10/sports/chris-froome-crashes-out-of-the-tour-de-france.html

Jim Ochowicz, the manager of the BMC team, was among those who favored going ahead as planned.

“The course is announced in October,” he said. “It’s not a big surprise that it might rain in Belgium in July, and we know what those roads are like; we train on those roads. They get muddy, they get wet and they get slippery.”

mperlberg said:

good read on the whole situation: 

http://redkiteprayer.com/2014/07/the-sky-problem/

I don't know about the Sky problem.  For all the drama around Wiggins, Richie Porte wore the pink jersey in his first grand tour, and finished seventh overall and the best young rider.  Last year, he won Paris-Nice, second in Basque country, and second at the Dauphine.  did I mention seventh last year, while working hard for Froome and getting badly dropped on the second day in the Pyrenees?

Inner Ring finding the silver lining: "...events today [yesterday] will even send shockwaves that go beyond the Tour de France, for example the Vuelta is already looking mouthwatering with Chris Froome facing the Quintana brothers."

For all the talk of stage 5, interesting that stage 6 resulted in more casualties ,including Contador's right hand man

mperlberg said:

good read on the whole situation: 

http://redkiteprayer.com/2014/07/the-sky-problem/

"The real problem seems a larger issue of team management. When Froome went down on stage 4, he was riding four rows back from the front, unprotected by teammates. What appears to be two Orica-Green Edge riders collided—it seems one rider put his bar into his teammate’s hip—and either bounced or overreacted several feet to his right. At the time Froome had exactly one teammate with him and he was to Froome’s left, not ahead of him, clearing the way." "Ultimately, Froome’s demise is David Brailsford’s responsibility. Froome should have been surrounded by teammates during stage 4. That may not have prevented his crash, but it would have reduced the chance. Similarly, once he did crash, Brailsford should have surrounded Froome with teammates for stage 5, but the team splintered in the rain and chaos, again leaving Froome isolated enough that he crashed twice more."