Marc Bertucco said:

twoyacks said:

I'm not upset about dopers showing up and winning a "graveyard" series at an old, abandoned runway in October...I'm upset because I got dropped at all 4 races I went to...and that made me feel old. For that, I would like to kick Team Triangle Cyclist right in their junk. There should be a dopers hotline we could call to report "not normal" activity. Old man Yacks

Vlad, I don't know this Team Triangle at all, difficult for me to speculate. But history has shown, if it swims like a fish, if it smells like a fish...

Yacks, just keep at it. You'll get there. Us older riders have to work a little harder/smarter to get our race fitness up to speed. And as you are selecting events in which to participate to help you reach your goals, it's worth thinking about those events and how they fit into your overall plan.

Racing can be great way to build fitness, but if those races are too far over our current fitness levels, they end up being counter-productive on multiple levels.

PS The older you get, the more critical paying attention to recovery is as well. I know you and others know all this, but it's worth reminding ourselves of this every now and again.

I could be Rip Van Fucking Winkle...365 watts for 6 minutes from the gun...it is what it is

twoyacks said:

I could be Rip Van Fucking Winkle...365 watts for 6 minutes from the gun...it is what it is

Those are big numbers Yaks, by anyone's standard.

Yacks, I guess I could have been more direct with my advice. Not that you asked for it, but here it is.

Stop going to FBF races where you need 365 watts for 6+ minutes from the gun. If you don't carry that kind of firepower, then you'd be better served, at this point, by building up to that kind of wattage with a more structured training plan.

And furthermore, I'd like to add a personal thank-you for that tid-bit of information, because I don't think I could ever crank out those kinds of watts for that long, and so I now have yet another good excuse for not showing up to any races at FBF. :-)

Thanks

vlad said:

I need to throw this out to the veteran Kissena racer bros - @Marc Bertucco‌ , @mugwump‌ , et al. The Triangle guys swept the 123 series. Jose, Jesus, and Sammy. The most remarkable part is that I'm fairly certain that Jose was in the winning move in at least 7 of the 8 races that comprise this series. I raced 6 of them and he was in those winning moves. This included the race with the German pros that won Basking Ridge the next day, the Lupus UCI Masters RR World Champ (and his teammates from GA), and every other one. In my mind, this doesn't happen... ever. Every winning move? I've seen consistent performances out there from talented racers before, but not to this extent. Have you? Does this happen?

Back in 2000, I think Oscar Pineda broke away at every spring series race he did.  He didn't do them all.  And he was a pro and went to the Olympics that year.  

Is there a way to objectively assess these happenings using power meter data?

twoyacks said:

Is there a way to objectively assess these happenings using power meter data?

What do you mean?

twoyacks said:

Is there a way to objectively assess these happenings using power meter data?

Not really.  Too many variables.  

I think small fields have a ton to do with this.

Jules I was curious about using power data to spot dopers or performances that raise eyebrows...

twoyacks said:

Jules I was curious about using power data to spot dopers or performances that raise eyebrows...

I don't think you need a power meter for that.

mperlberg said:

I think small fields have a ton to do with this.

This is really the thing. It's when guys are spanking huge fields one week and nowhere the next, and so on that really stands out.

The spanking has been going on in earnest...

Small field factor? Yes. Teammates? Yes. Not enough in my mind to rule out doping, especially when the United guys are on the same page. That's more than a canary, that's a crow. Smart, strong, and experienced racers are getting tooled on. That's not just an indictment of our intellect.

mperlberg said:

I think small fields have a ton to do with this.

I cut my teeth at Floyd and was runner up at the Tuesday night 3/4 series way back when.  Big field...small field...doesn't matter much when you are camped directly behind a wheel and hell bent on holding it.  If I am putting the watts down following a wheel into the wind...what kind of watts are being spilled at the front?   Those races all started with no lull...you didn't see attacks...just fractures everywhere due to guys popping spectacularly (looking in mirror).  If it is true Team Triangle Cyclist swept the podium spots for the series...the question has to be asked.  I'm pretty fit right now according to my direct force power meter...I like a series that starts at 10 a.m. and runs into Oct.  I want to support Horace.  I've never been the kid to take his ball and go home but I blew $120 on entry fees out there and I am not going back again.  Fuck those guys...Fuck em in the ear...fuck em in the other ear !  I say that not with peace and love but with bitterness and malice.

This is turning into one of my favorite threads ever. And having seen the destruction firsthand I will say these races are unnecessarily hard. I've done many (very) hard 1/2/3 races over the years and the first 10 minutes of these are F-ing brutal. 

Yacks-

Adam so happy the pub finally got Wi-Fi and look forward to many more of your drunken posts.  Just remember every time the pint goes up, the power-to-weight goes down.  It is an inverse relationship, like you talking and people's interests waning.  For a direct correlation I offer the chart below where shit coming out of your pint hole would be the Y-axis and people hating your ass would be the X-axis.

On one of the triangle rides I got my ass handed to me by a triangle cyclist rider clearly twenty years my senior.  I was going to blame fatigue (I go on the 6 PM ride after a long workday), lack of structured training, and poor focus.  Then I was talking to the guy about his favorite post-ride ritual.  I explained that I enjoy a nice cold beer after a ride.  He looked at me as if I had confided that I prefer fine grit sandpaper to chamois cream.  He thought beer had no place in a cyclist's life. This was a man who frowned upon beer.  A man who frowns upon beer is a man who elects to suffer more than I could ever imagine.  No wonder he's faster on the bike.

Perhaps you didn't offer him the correct beverage...a man of that hematocrit has more sophisticated tastes and prefers something more..."enhancing" shall we say.  A drink that will reduce his fatigue and increase his aerobic capacity.  Something that will get his heart racing... I have just the ticket...vintage 6 months ago, cultivated at high altitude and stored just above freezing...

Brendan Rigby said:

On one of the triangle rides I got my ass handed to me by a triangle cyclist rider clearly twenty years my senior.  I was going to blame fatigue (I go on the 6 PM ride after a long workday), lack of structured training, and poor focus.  Then I was talking to the guy about his favorite post-ride ritual.  I explained that I enjoy a nice cold beer after a ride.  He looked at me as if I had confided that I prefer fine grit sandpaper to chamois cream.  He thought beer had no place in a cyclist's life. This was a man who frowned upon beer.  A man who frowns upon beer is a man who elects to suffer more than I could ever imagine.  No wonder he's faster on the bike.

I wonder who that was... Surprisingly, the triangle team is not training with triangle ride... Exception for Alexis and Jose ( Joaquin) and some Cat 4 riders. There are some strong dudes there, but they don't race.  Danny for example.

I really enjoyed the GRaveyard series though. Brutal, but interesting. Good training. Poor organization, including mistakes and flaws. I was really not to see more then three of Kissena riders altogether at a time for those races. Biggest showcase of Kissena work was at L&C cup. Toughest race of the season : Kissena Cup. Thank you, all team members for great season!!.

Pleasure racing with you for those few, painful miles Vladi. See you in the Spring

Will start earning my Floyd chops in tomorrow morning's race.

Can meet up at GAP if anyone riding out for the 8am 5's. Departing around 6:30 to register and get a lap in before start.

Vlad and Brian Miele are registered.

Vlad, you're the only 1/2/3 registered.  Will others show race day?  I'm thinking about going, but it's a long ride for me to find out it's been cancelled.

What say you?

FYI - it only takes 30 mins to get to Floyd from the GAP. But I'll see you at Floyd (my race is @9).

Race is on. I'll see you fools out there.