This is an annual event for Kissena. We pick an evening the week before the season starts, ideally between 2/28 and 3/3.



The discussion is about the tactical side of racing. How to race, how to place, how to win. How to work with teammates, how to outsmart others and use their strengths against them. How to become a jedi racer. There's a handout. You come with questions.



We just need to choose a date and find a meeting place.

In this thread we talk bike racing strategy.

Dissect races, argue, post tips.

Here are a couple of excellent articles by our own Charlie Issendorf, on the "How To"'s of various essential racing skills:

How To Race A Criterium: http://www.truesport.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=66

How To Give A Leadout: http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=41

Many more articles by Charlie: http://www.spasport.com/charlieissendorf.htm

Great advice William.

Another way to win races in NYC seems to be to start training early, and be in shape for the first season races, since almost everyone seems to be half asleep through mid-may.

I was wondering if anyone has any advice on when one should transition from generic base building to more serious training i.e., intervals and sprints. I remember reading that one is supposed to put in about 1,000 base miles (about 45-50 hours in the saddle) first.

But I've also read that fitness is cumulative and this is my 4th year since I started riding/training.

I've seen a few people refer to a timespan of 3 years to build fitness...

I work off of a rule of thumb of three months before doing any kind of real anaerobic work. But you can still lay the groundwork for sprints by doing low gear form sprints, and by doing weight work.

(I also recently read a good article on Cycle-Smart's website about building sprint workouts, but I can't find it right now)

Gui,

My feeling is twofold. one is that you should always have some hard efforts mixed in; they won't always be focused. The second is that you should think about transitions and progressions throughout the year. In terms of the hard efforts, an example, sprints. I'd suggest that from December or January through September, having some sort of weekly sprint workout is a good idea. I do different things at different times to progress and keep things fresh. In terms of hard efforts that aren't focused, weekend riding is a time I like to use to work in some harder efforts. I also think that if you're short on time, tempo and threshold efforts, even when you're short on "base" miles, is fine. But, regardless, a progression is a good thing. For example, I race cyclocross into december. During the cross season, I build up my running, from five minutes to 45-50 minutes. After cross season is over, I build my runs to an hour. In January, I try to do one threshold run a week. I also did one indoor ride a week where I worked on tempo and low-gear sprints. Now that it's February, I've dropped the running and have an indoor VO2 max workout. I've moved my sprints outdoors and am working on seated, big gear sprints.

WE HAVE A DATE. Monday, February 28, 2011, common era.

We have a time. 7pm Eastern Standard Time.

We have a place. 119 Ludlow (Ludlow and Delancy), underneath Crops and Barbers.

Thanks to Joe Mueller for hooking us up.

WE HAVE A DOODLE POLL FOR SIGN UP.

http://www.doodle.com/3igssuavhd58p9xt;jsessionid=A4E074765702E5CD97CE7BA317840F9B.worker1

If you're interested and can't make it, sign up as well.

With regards to the pre-season tactics talk, I want to encourage everyone who is even vaguely interested in being a team captain this year to plan on attending this meeting. I think it will be a good opportunity to talk about roles, responsibilities and expectations of a team captain without trying to hold a separate meeting. (I understand how busy everyone is).

This is two weeks from tonight.

If you're interested, sign up,show up.

I'm also fixing to have fabulous prizes.

guys

i have class on monday nights, so i can't make this

that said, i would be happy to be a Road Captain for the 3's for parts of the season

i've "unofficially" served in this role before, so i think i understand what's involved/expected, but please post any other details/items discussed that are relevant to captaincy

best,

-william

A little less than a week to go. Sign up, show up, ask questions, get answers.

<blockquote><cite>Posted By: mugwump</cite>WE HAVE A DATE. Monday, February 28, 2011, common era.

We have a time. 7pm Eastern Standard Time.

We have a place. 119 Ludlow (Ludlow and Delancy), underneath Crops and Barbers.

Thanks to Joe Mueller for hooking us up.

WE HAVE A DOODLE POLL FOR SIGN UP.

<a href="http://www.doodle.com/3igssuavhd58p9xt;jsessionid=A4E074765702E5CD97CE7BA317840F9B.worker1" rel="nofollow" class="auto-embedded">http://www.doodle.com/3igssuavhd58p9xt;jsessionid=A4E074765702E5CD97CE7BA317840F9B.worker1</a>

If you're interested and can't make it, sign up as well.</blockquote>

Stephane et al,

The reason to ask you to sign up even if you can't make it is to see if there might be enough interest to have a second such talk.

All the same, only have responded. Surely there are more who want to go.

I'm hoping those who want to serve in the captain role during the upcoming season will show.

Having originally confirmed, being in the midst of midterms I realized how much work I have to do and will not be able to attend tonight. If there is a second such talk, I will bust my butt to make it to that one.

I will be unable to attend as well. Sick.

I am unable to attend (as previously marked on the Doodle poll) but would be interested in working as a captain later in the spring if the opportunity presents itself. I anticipate having the most time (and fitness) in May or June. Whether or not this opportunity comes up, I look forward to working together with the other Cat 4s in whatever capacity to help Kissena succeed.

Patrick

Sorry, guys - can't make it tonight. Have a work deadline I need to meet. And my traveling will likely make it tough for a captain role. But I am enthusiastic about the idea and will help whomever becomes the captain to the best of my limited ability.

1) should i bring anything?
2)can i bring my bike inside?

ps. be there at 7:13.

Posted By: chrisbloomeps. be there at 7:13.

brewskies!

At last night racing tactics talk, someone asked a very good question which I wanted to share with those who couldn't make it. Paraphrasing here:

"How do I know if I'm fit enough, if I'm where I should be?"

It's a simple question with a relatively complex answer (if you want it to be). The annoying short answer is, "it depends." It depends on so many things. Some you can control or know and many you cannot.

The thing you can control:

* Your personal fitness related to your immediate, middle and long-term goals--this is to say, if you are targeting the leader's jersey in the Spring Series and you are riding 20% below your peak fitness, then you may not be fit enough.

The thing you cannot control:

* How strong and smart is your competition? Assuming you are going for early season goals, even if you aren't at your best, if you are already 25% stronger and smarter than your competition, then even at a 20% deficit in your personal performance benchmarks, you've still got 5% on everyone else. Obviously, I'm making these numbers up, but you get my point?

Yeah, but Marc, you haven't answered the question "HOW do I know?" You'll never really know for sure until bell lap of your first race this season, but there are a few clues that might give you a good idea.

* Training data points. Do you have a power meter, or keep old fashioned pen and paper training logs? What did your numbers look like last year at this time? Are they similar? You can maybe guess that the field as a whole will be in similar shape to last year (some will be stronger, some will be weaker, but overall speeds/effort levels don't change dramatically from year to year) and if you give yourself a 7/10 on the "how awesome I am this year scale" and last year you gave yourself a 6.5, then congratulations, you are probably going to perform a little bit better relative to your field this year. My point here is that training records, whether they be high or low tech provide the athlete with some way to quantify their efforts, fitness and when interpreted over a period of time are a valuable tool for knowing answers to metaphysical questions.

* How have you been doing on group rides? One of the great benefits to training with a group of riders of varying abilities, especially those with more experience and/or better fitness, is that you get a kind of reality check. Too much time alone in the off-season leads to two kinds of thoughts. Delusions of grandeur. And unrealistic feelings of gross suckatude. But if you are out riding with JP and are a cat 4 and making him breathe hard on a local climb, I can tell you that you are going to be just fine for a few laps in Central Park. That guy's fitness is as steady and reliable as they come. He's always ready to rock and roll the 1/2/3 field in the spring. ALWAYS.

Now does keeping up with JP mean you are going to race well and bring home a sweet bouquet of flowers to your honey-bunny after you win in the park? No. For one, there are no flowers given out to victors of park races. For another, hanging tough on a training ride and doing well in a race require some of the same things (fitness and strength namely), but many many other things...

Some of which are in your control, some of which are not...

...many of which were addressed in last night's racing tactic's talk.

The main thing I want you to get out of this email message/post, is that I want you to get out there, and have some fun, race smart, and think critically about what your goals are for this season and beyond. That's the only way really you'll be able to answer that question for yourself.

I'd like to add one thing to Marc's great post.

The best way to see where your fitness stacks up to everybody else. Toe the line and go race! Nothing shows you whether you're up for it, like doing it. If you blow up with 2 laps to go, well you know you're not there yet. If you're flying like a champ, then dammit you're going to be the champ.

It's Baaaaaak.

And badder than ever.

The annual Pre-Season Tactics Talk. I come with a handout, a guide, you come with questions. We go from the most basic racing considerations to fairly advanced tactical gambits. Leadouts, courses, fitness, teammates, opposition, etc.

We need both a date and a place.

The date should be the last week of FEBRUARY, sometime between Monday and Thursday.

Doodle poll is here http://www.doodle.com/nfys2fe77yquir83#table

We also need a place. Centrally located, like midtown, or downtown manhattan would be ideal.

Take the poll first. We'll worry about location second.

AAAACK

Last week of February!

My flight from Cali lands at JFK on the 28th at 7pm...prob won't be able to make it- and its my bday the next day! that's right, leap year babies actually get a bday this year.

whoa

that's awkward . . . how do you usually celebrate? the 28th or the 1st?

my girl beat the whistle and came out on the 28th - great relief, i'm sure.

hah usually on the weekend following it but if i had to pick...the 1st because of the sequence.

just pinging this as a reminder. Sign up!

unearthing this old thread to talk about race strategy/tactics

i just read this on pezcyclingnews

Bob Mionske on the psychological aspects of race tactics:

"PEZ: You were a rider who employed psychology against your opponents.
BM: Sure!
If you’re the strongest rider in a race then you can’t wait to get to the part of the course that’s going to suit you; so you can use your strength – but the strongest rider doesn’t always win.
For me the really interesting part of racing is watching the break whittle down from 12 to 10 to six then finally, three or four.
It’s like being in a street brawl, running for your life – your survival instincts come in to play and you maybe have to cut deals.
I used to believe that every decision you made in a race had a psychological impact – not just in your own mind, you had to try and influence the opposition.
Maybe you’d let yourself slide a little of the back on a climb and the others would think; ‘he’s done’ – but the next time they’d see you would be when you passed them in the sprint.
What you’re thinking in a race has a great impact on how you’ll perform – it’s not just Vo2-max and power to weight ratio that counts."






from: http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&amp;id=10109&amp;status=True&amp;catname=Latest News

WDC's latest post reminds me of something I've been thinking about lately that I want to emphasize to the club as they prepare for Battenkill and some of the other big races of the season.

The cat 3 and 4 power numbers being posted by many of you are super impressive. You are clearly strong and have the opportunity to do well if...well, if you don't blow it. When you are riding strong, it's easy to race stupidly, because your legs and lungs can make up for a lot of mistakes. However, if you are not content with a top 20 or top 15 in a big RR or crit, you are going to have to use your head a bit too.

Some of my best races have been when my fitness has been down, as such, I knew I needed to be smarter than usual when making decisions about where and when to apply my wattage.

I can talk more specifically about strategy on certain courses at the next strategy session, like the traditional Bear Mountain course, which I've raced almost once a year since 1992 or so.

But for now, let me just say that in general, you super strong riders will be able to shed much of your competition throughout the race just by being you and climbing with the best without too much mental effort. However, when the final selections are made, chances are you will have 8-15 other strong guys around you waiting to unleash mighty sprints or attacks at opportune moments.

Smart racing and good teammwork will be the difference between a lot of impressive 8th places, and awesomesauce podiums, you dig?

Posted By: Marc BertuccoWhen you are riding strong, it's easy to race stupidly, because your legs and lungs can make up for a lot of mistakes

this and so this

i was in the best shape of my life last summer, but i didn't get a single point or top 10 the entire year.

there were a few times when i reached good enough form to be competitive in cat 3 road races and 123 park races, but mostly i wasted it by riding like "i had good form", i.e. working cause it felt good, chasing, trying to be the Patron and leading by example.

everytime that i did, it bit me in the ass and i crumbled.

so, i guess the point is, when you are going really well, keep riding as if you weren't. be just as miserly with your efforts. even when racing on a team of by-necessity breakaway artists you still have to be very selective.

Another angle on the racing mind --that quotation from Mionske "What you’re thinking in a race has a great impact on how you’ll perform – it’s not just Vo2-max and power to weight ratio that counts." Well, I've noticed that when I'm training and place my thoughts in race scenarios (i.e., visualizing a race) it's kicks-up my sympathetic nervous system as if I'm in a fight or flight situation. So, I'll be cruising along on the flat section in the park, steady cadence, steady wind, same gearing --then, I visualize making some heroic attack in my little cat 4 park race-- I'm just imagining it, thinking about timing and such, but I keep my output the same --well, my HR jumps 10-20bpm. I have always figured that to be normal, since visualizing scenarios can obviously trigger a sympathetic response even if you're just sitting at the computer or walking down the street. But, I do A LOT of this visualizing stuff leading up to races, and I can feel the adrenaline kick-in which is slightly painful/uncomfortable.

So, if I'm doing this multiple times per day in the week leading up to my race, is all the hormonal activity (cortisol and other stuff like that) taxing my system and ultimately dimming my performance capacity at race time? Since those chemicals can interfere with sleep, I suppose the answer is --at the very least-- I won't be as well-rested.

Also, coming back to one's race-time mental game, can thinking too much about when to attack, when to follow, when to counter, etc. burn-up energy? Again, my assumption is that it can and does waste energy and that being calm mentally helps you focus and perform better when you do decide to crush it.

Any good articles and/or insights into this?

@ Norm,

I'm not sure about the hormonal / adrenaline effect long term. Are our adrenaline stores limited? Is the amount that is released in training / visualization significant? Some doctors please chime in.

I guess we're getting a bit away from strategy here and talking more about mental prep, but I'll share a brief experience.

For 3 1/3 years of high school running I lingered as a well trained but ultimately not very successful athlete when the races came around. I could count maybe 2-3 performances in 3 years that were on par with my training.

I had some ass kicking teammates, who'd later go on to run D-1 and Olympic trials marathon shit, so I always compared myself to them. But still, even with high quality workouts and great training I seemed to choke on race day. I took this stuff seriously, I was running a ton, it was my life. But the biggest races yielded the worst performances. Mind you, I was surrounded by very serious dudes (very talented) and and handful of jokers, but jokers that trained their asses off and raced well.

I came to realize something very very important. You just have to not give a shit. Realize, in the big picture, this is all fun. Ever since then, my race day performances have been so much better. I started cracking out some great races, finally, and running way above my training would suggest. I've carried that into my cycling life.

Train hard, prepare for races, but realize there is always another race next week. Now, this isn't a excuse to not try hard, it's a understanding that at the end of the day, this is all fun. So I'll still be aggressive, race myself into the ground, and hope for the best, but I won't defeat myself mentally on the line. I truly believe this is why I got some of the results I got last year against some much more talented riders. Old me would have looked at my competition, gotten nervous, done all the calculations, and defeated myself before Maurice even blew the whistle. But now, I realize it's all fun, and I go hang it all on the line.

So sometimes this mental prep stuff for races, I think it stresses me out more than it helps me. So I do think about races and visualize myself winning all the time (I just visualized myself beating Joe up alpine this past Saturday, by a bike throw) but I think it helps to keep it all in a healthy perspective, because sometimes the nervousness and tensions that come with visualization override the benefit.