Kissena Forum Archive

Watts in the Bank (aka the school of marginal gains)

176 comments · 2101 views
Vlad,
     Take that photog on a date.  She does you right.
the Vlad in the drops is more aero. 

It still blows my mind that riders in big time TTs still wear dangly necklaces and clumsily safety-pinned traditional numbers to their backsides.

I think the next/best thing to do, for, say the grand tours, is to get custom skin suits with rider numbers sublimated onto their kits. Sure, probably expensive, but more expensive than a motor home?

It still blows my mind that riders in big time TTs still wear dangly necklaces and clumsily safety-pinned traditional numbers to their backsides.

I think the next/best thing to do, for, say the grand tours, is to get custom skin suits with rider numbers sublimated onto their kits. Sure, probably expensive, but more expensive than a motor home?
The problem is timing.  The rosters are finalized in the few days leading up to the race and the numbers assigned with about three days to go.  Don't know if there's time to do custom suits with each number different for each rider in that time frame.  I gather that many of the TT suits these days are one-off and many, despite labels to the contrary, come out of the same factories.  

They can spray glue them on just the way people do here.  Cheaper, easier.  

Or they can go the Castelli route, which is sewing a flap jus above the shorts that is supposed to cover the leading edge of the number.  Though the Garmin team doesn't always take care in using it.


come to think of it, the Tour has often provided adhesive-backed numbers to the riders. 
Aero position. Nice tip to ride ten minutes of every ride in aero position. 

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/10/news/road/video-how-much-faster-is-the-aero-position_388179

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-to-release-physiological-testing-data-before-end-of-year/


Velonews did some tire testing.  

http://velonews.competitor.com/where-the-rubber-meets-the-road-what-makes-cycling-tires-fast

It's worth a read.  However, I'd love to see some comparison of various testing methodologies, as I've never seen Specialized's tires test so well.  I wonder if Specialized used the same testing protocol, or test lab, when developing their tires.  
Seriously, JP, there are some shenanigans going on.  Being a fan of Conti's black chili compound, I'm pretty happy to see their GP 4000s II not too far off the top spot.  Surprised by how far down Veloflex places along with Vittoria's top offerings.
I guess they must have done their homework, but not too many alu courses.


Interesting to me that 28 mm's are the hotness for road. The untested Spesh 28's should be the fastest by a couple of Watts. You need to factor rotating weight, drag, rim/tire aeroness to make a proper evaluation, but I like that you can have plush ride and go fast.

I guess they must have done their homework, but not too many alu courses.


Interesting to me that 28 mm's are the hotness for road. The untested Spesh 28's should be the fastest by a couple of Watts. You need to factor rotating weight, drag, rim/tire aeroness to make a proper evaluation, but I like that you can have plush ride and go fast.

I confess I haven't read the report yet, but whenever these "fatter is better" conversations/articles/reviews pop up, they usually don't answer the question: "How fat is too fat?" Like, are 40mm slicks going to be the best? Or more precisely, at one point does weight, contact patch, drag, aero, etc. outweigh (pun intended) the purported benefits of a 25/28 over a 19-23mm tire.
I guess they must have done their homework, but not too many alu courses.


Interesting to me that 28 mm's are the hotness for road. The untested Spesh 28's should be the fastest by a couple of Watts. You need to factor rotating weight, drag, rim/tire aeroness to make a proper evaluation, but I like that you can have plush ride and go fast.

That's rolling resistance only.  It doesn't take in to account weight or aerodynamics.  The 3mm width increase, and weight that comes with it, seems to tilt analysts to go for 25mm tires.  I'd think that the aerodynamics are better, too, as most of the latest-generation deep-dish carbon wheels are trying to keep the leading and trailing edges of the rim/tire combo as similar as possible.  The bulb that 28's would create on all but the widest rims should adversely affect aerodynamics.

I was going through ENVE's offerings recently.  Their shallow 2.2 (25mm depth) and deep 7.8 (71/80mm depths) are designed to work best with 25mm tires, though the rest of their line is best with 23mm's.  And most of the aero wheel offerings seem to work best with 23-25mm tires, even the extra-wie Hed's.


Seriously, JP, there are some shenanigans going on.  Being a fan of Conti's black chili compound, I'm pretty happy to see their GP 4000s II not too far off the top spot.  Surprised by how far down Veloflex places along with Vittoria's top offerings.
The GP400s II tests pretty well across the board, but I've never seen so good.  Vittoria and Zipp were lower than I've seen elsewhere, and Michelin was far back, as is pretty typical.
Sounds like the Specialized Turbo cotton 26 mm is the winner....now where can u actually buy them????????
twoyacks said:
Sounds like the Specialized Turbo cotton 26 mm is the winner....now where can u actually buy them????????
Yack,
     If you're going to go to 26mm tires, you might consider 25mm wide rims.  Unfortunately, you may have to forsake Neugent to do so

https://www.hedcycling.com/ardennes/ardennes-plus/ardennes-plus-sl
24mm close enough

http://www.neugentcycling.com/product26.html

Found that the hub bearings on my race wheels (Hed Jet 4 circa 2011) are rough. Is the wider and taller rim profile worth it over the super smooth hubs on my "training" wheels (Mavic aksium)?
Found that the hub bearings on my race wheels (Hed Jet 4 circa 2011) are rough. Is the wider and taller rim profile worth it over the super smooth hubs on my "training" wheels (Mavic aksium)?
replace the bearings.  

I'd have to feel them.  
Quickish fix... http://www.artscyclery.com/learningcenter/cartridgewheelbearingcare.html
Thanks John, I've done that before on other wheels but these Hed supersonic hubs are a PITA and i can't get to the cartridge bearings easily (one side refuses to come apart, either seized threads or I'm totally biffing something).  Either way I don't want to be futzing with stuff late at night before race day.

JP, fo-sho, but need a shop's expertise to do it - see above issues with pulling them apart myself.  If I see you tomorrow and I'm on the Heds you can feel the grittiness yourself.
In tricky cases, I often try to squirt a little thin lube into whatever crevice I see and then use gravity to hopefully seep the lube into the bearings.

But I'm happy to feel.
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/michelin-power-tyres-how-they-were-tested-46688/

Great review on the new Michelin tire or this is just an infomercial.
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/michelin-power-tyres-how-they-were-tested-46688/

Great review on the new Michelin tire or this is just an infomercial.
Infomercial.  Wait a few months for the review.
Cute fish....B

But screw Finding Dory.....Yacks is FINDING FITNESS !!!!  See you cha cha's at a race soon...
https://www.strava.com/activities/620466574
Look at that cadence...the supplease...just the supplease
More tire pressure data! This time from Silca.
More tire pressure data! This time from Silca.
A must read.  If your eyes glaze over, just scroll down to the end of 4B.
Reducing bearing friction by replacing the grease

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/05/friction-facts-how-lubricants-and-seals-affect-cartridge-bearing-friction/

Turns out even cheap, lightly-applied 3-in-1 is better than grease if speed is your goal.  Not so great for harsh conditions.
That Silca article is great Jeff. I've always said steel drum tests were BS, but this breakpoint data is amazing. One variable they don't mention which increases your rolling resistance with super low pressure on rough roads is pinch flats (see FBF)

@Mugwump Seems like a lot of work for max 2.5 watts: "Smith’s theoretical 250W rider can gain roughly six seconds over a flat 40km time trial by saving a single watt of friction — and for a few bucks and some elbow grease, that isn’t half bad." — you'd need a separate set of race wheels, top them up with Ceramic Speed TT Grease every 600 miles? For TT bike it'd be worth it.



@Mugwump Seems like a lot of work for max 2.5 watts: "Smith’s theoretical 250W rider can gain roughly six seconds over a flat 40km time trial by saving a single watt of friction — and for a few bucks and some elbow grease, that isn’t half bad." — you'd need a separate set of race wheels, top them up with Ceramic Speed TT Grease every 600 miles? For TT bike it'd be worth it.


I have a separate set of race wheels.  Though yes, removing the dust covers then the bearing seals adds up.  

I also think it worthwhile for the track--far fewer miles and just about always in the dry.  I'm not going to pull the bearings out of my track bike before the state championships, but I'll probably wax the chain (I did it last a few years ago for the track bike), remove the bearing seals on the bottom bracket bearings, wipe out the excess, and go from there.  i think the bearing seals are exposed on my cheap disc, so I'll probably do the same there.
I've heard of some crazy-ass stuff to save weight but carving out the centers of freehub splines to save weight has to be top of the list...!

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/08/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq-saving-freehubs-aero-is-everywhere_418864