I'm in for Saturday in Central Park

I won't be there on Sunday

Who else is in?

I'm in for Saturday. And Sunday. (Sunday is Prospect Park. Both days start at the late time of 6:45)

C'mon everybody, come out and play. Fitness and Fun. Hijinks on the high seas.

For those who didn't race this past Sunday; even though AVD published our race as four laps long, he called for five on the line and we raced five.

Just a heads up that Cat. 5 is closed for Saturday in CP. 4 Kissenas are in. Sunday in PP still has openings.

Hi Guys,

I cannot race Saturday, but I should be a "go" for Sunday at Prospect Park.

-Norm

I'm in for Saturday and maybe sunday

I'm in for both days.

Cap'n, Lt. Dan: I'm glad your back, it will be good to have directing traffic again.

Rich: Feel better soon. Drink lots of beer to help recover that knee!

Gideon: You controlled the pack very well last weekend, pumped you will be there both days.

Chris: I'm be excited to race with you this weekend and see all your hard winter work pay off.

Jeff: Don't sleep on your condition. Your in pretty good shape, not sure if you noticed you kicking my ass up the first 2 hills riding to alpine on monday.

As for tactics, I feel the long breakaway wont make it this weekend. Last weekend we controlled the pace, as a team we had someone off the front stringing out the race from the start. Then once the break came we slowed down the race to keep it away. I feel like we can make sure no breaks get away then finish up with the long lead out.

Ryan J: I would like to get your thoughts on how to play defense this weekend.

I know the Scotto team is going to be out to control the race this week and try to get their man another win. They are organized and strong, certainly a team to keep an eye on. The foundation guys are also a team I'm keeping my eye on they seem to be organized just not there yet.

I'm expecting the points count to come out tomorrow night, Dan did AVD respond to your tweet earlier?

I know you get a point for every dollar you take home. For second places I've been getting $40 and I think 1st gets $60. With Steve gone to the 1/2/3's that should mean I'm in 1st with 80 and Francisco is in 2nd with 60 unless someone else registered for the whole season and got some extra points.

Right now I'm counting:
4 Kissena's in for Sat
5 Kissena's in for Sun

Anyone else in this weekend?

I'll be outta town Saturday. Sunday's a maybe for me, but schoolwork will probably say "negatory!"

Sunday is a possibility, but I am racing Branch Brook on Saturday.
Eric

Sorry Guys,
Travelling this week. Won't be able to make it.
I'm already registered for Sunday 27 at PP.
Good luck with races this weekend!!

No response from AVD, I thought about emailing him but I figure he gets enough emails from annoying bike racers, If we don't hear something by this evening I will reach out to him.

Francisco is a good rider, and has a great sprint, and I think it is going to be challenging to stay in front of him in a sprint.

It may make sense to try to eat up points with some other guys who are not in the top 5 or 6 positions. Who those folks are I am not certain (see the fact we have no idea who the leaders are besides Joe and Francisco). This may mean getting another break to work, but without Joe. If a Kissena is in it awesome, if not it isn't the end of the world we may want to keep it away because it takes points away from others. Though I think this is unlikely since breaks have stayed away the last two weeks meaning most folks will be wanting to get into that winning break so everything that goes will have 45 guys trying to jump on that wheel and get into the break instantly killing it.

Gideon, Chris and I should be patrolling the front, and trying to get into anything breakaway looking, but we should assume that this will come down to a sprint. So if we're at Tavern on the last lap and nothing is away, we should prepare to line up and really punch it by the carousel and our last of the 3 of us should start his sprint near the bottom of Cat's Paw and deposit Joe at the top of the hill where he can hold off the rest of the pack. Easy Peasy. Right?

I signed up for PP on Sunday. Last time I checked there were 6 of us in that field.

Adam

As noted, the race on Sunday was pretty skitty. As mentioned, unfortunately got caught up in the crash with Dave. Really unfortunate, as was about 5 or 6 m to the left of the initial crash but an Adam-seeking-missile in the form of a blue racing bike cartwheeled across the road into me. Couldn't avoid it.

I basically sat in for the whole race. My aim was just to feel aout the pace/course/tam/opposition as it was my first showing. This week I'm in the Sunday field at PP. Will definitely do something, I promise!

See you Sunday morning-Adam

I'm in for Saturday in CP, and I think I have the legs to do meaningful work. Drill a leadout, cover moves, attack, glue myself to Francisco's wheel, whatever.

I'll be there Sunday, I have to work early on Saturday so couldn't make it. I may be hungover, and I may be out of shape, but I'll be there...

It appears that my racing/riding plans have gone off course, at least for the near future. Due to a recently developed back condition I am prevented from being on a bike, let alone racing. Hopefully will have a better idea for how long soon. Needless to say that this rather unfortunate development makes me very unhappy. In the meantime, I will contact the race organizers and see if i can release my spot. ( I don't believe i can transfer the spot).

Good luck to the remaining riders,

Yon

As of now, it seems like we have:

Saturday: JP, Marc, Myles, Rene, William, ?
Sunday: JP, Marc, Myles, Ragot?, Rene?, ?

Joaquin, Perlberg, Robertson, Snyder, Donovan, Katz, Micko, we know you're out there (maybe not Joaquin)

Hey Saturday Cat 5s,

Looks like you've got a slim and trim team for Saturday's CP race, so you are going to have to be, perhaps a little more conservative than you have been in the past. Be smart and keep John in that jersey!

Thanks Marc. Yup - just 4 of us. Quite a few Velocity guys, and then there's the Real Estate Rescue duo who have been in the mix both weeks.

Shoulder/knee feeling better after last weekend's spill, and I felt pretty good for 1.5 hours in park last night riding w/other Kissenas. After getting dropped first race, my goal last week was to stay strong in pack and have something in the tank at the end. Mission accomplished.

So this week, I'd like to step it up and try to do something more than surf in the pack - but given the thinner ranks, and overall goal of keeping John in the jersey...well, team first. Unlike Allen Iverson, I'm coachable. Any thoughts on strategery?

Posted By: Dan Reiners

It may make sense to try to eat up points with some other guys who are not in the top 5 or 6 positions. Who those folks are I am not certain (see the fact we have no idea who the leaders are besides Joe and Francisco). This may mean getting another break to work, but without Joe. If a Kissena is in it awesome, if not it isn't the end of the world we may want to keep it away because it takes points away from others. Though I think this is unlikely since breaks have stayed away the last two weeks meaning most folks will be wanting to get into that winning break so everything that goes will have 45 guys trying to jump on that wheel and get into the break instantly killing it.

Gideon, Chris and I should be patrolling the front, and trying to get into anything breakaway looking, but we should assume that this will come down to a sprint. So if we're at Tavern on the last lap and nothing is away, we should prepare to line up and really punch it by the carousel and our last of the 3 of us should start his sprint near the bottom of Cat's Paw and deposit Joe at the top of the hill where he can hold off the rest of the pack. Easy Peasy. Right?

I think that Cap'n Lt. Cmmdr. Dan is onto something here: breaks have gone the past two weeks and people are going to be trying hard to get into any break attempts and effectively kill them. The past two weeks (especially last week) we have put a huge amount of pressure on the pack just before the winning break went and then immediately gone to the front and shut things down. If we stay near the front and let other teams (probably Scotto's nee Luzzo's nee Edgemont Capital) take care of either pressuring the field and/or creating a break someone (ie me, Chris, or Dan) can jump into a break if it goes. If we are not in the break and there are no threats in the break it does not seem worthwhile to either help it stay away or chase it down; we should save our matches to punch it starting at Horseshit Alley or a little later...

Thanks Marc. Glad you're on the mend David. I agree, we'll definitely want to be a bit more conservative Saturday. What's your sense re wearing the leader jersey, does anyone take notice in Cat 5?

CP Saturday: Last two races it's been the same: final lap attacks on HH, last week we had two Kissena jerseys up the road, but they got gobbled on the back straight. The Real Estate Rescue guys actually blew it and missed the sign-up for March 13 race, I felt like they were very strong race 1 (solo'd to win and 6th place). So, I'm wondering if I should be marking those two and of course all of us chasing any attacks from the seven NY Velocity riders. Chance of rain forecast starting between 6-9am might thin the starting lineup.

PP Sunday: Practiced paceline there last night with Dan, David, Brian. The road is really beaten up with a few new deep'ish potholes opening up — after the downhill is a total mess so definitely want to be at the front through there. Suggest everyone ride the course and figure out their lines. In terms of strategy, it looks like there'll be little wind, so very hard to get a break away. How about we make it hard on the hill, lap 3 on, see if we can at least gap some riders and get a sense of who's strong. Thoughts?

Tweet from Van Dunk: "Due to construction in prospect park racers have to park outside the park. The best is to park on flatbush ave near the zoo and ride in."

I intend to get to PP on Sunday a little early (earlier than early, is it possible??) so I can head around on a lap to have a look at the course surface. If anyone's going to be there then let me know and we can try to meet up. IT's not a huge course so shouldn't take long.

I say we go for it from lap 2/3. The average fitness, bases on last week's CP race, wasn't out of this world. I think a few accelerations early on will put people on the back foot. I'm game to get involved and give that a try.

Adam

Great to see teammates with series jerseys in several fields! Congrats, John.

Yon, I'm very sorry to hear about things being derailed for you so early in the season. Hopefully things are sorted sooner rather than later and you can get back on the bike quickly.

Dave, glad you're not too bad off from sunday's festivities.

Good luck this weekend, gents.

To be honest, I'd be surprised if Saturday's CP race shakes out too differently than the previous two editions. I guess the big thing that John M. is going to have to look out for, is a dangerous break that gets and stays away. If that does happen, or it looks like it might happen, then all hands on deck and let the hammer chase begin. John M., stays protected, and saves his leg for final sprint.

He's shown in the last couple of weeks that he can "freelance" the sprint pretty well, so if you are worried about burning all your matches bringing back a dangerous break, don't be. Better he has a shot at another top placing than lose out too many spots to a breakaway.

I know a few of you guys are newish to racing, but I don't want you to fall into any bad habits. Namely, surfing the middle/back of the pack. We can do that on a group ride. On race days, we want you to RACE. That means being active and tired at the end of the day. On a related note, and I haven't heard it yet from anyone, but the only people allowed to say asinine things like, "that race wasn't hard enough" are the guys who are placing. Everyone else should be working harder, trying new things, riding their balls off for their teammates. Don't worry, you'll get your chance to be the protected rider soon enough!

So this week in CP, keep an eye on the front, don't let too many dangerous guys slip away without a Kissena perched on their rear wheel, and if it's going to be a group sprint, line it up at the front and start stringing out the field for John. He should have a free ride until 1/2 up Cat's Paw, and then it's all on him.

Sunday in PP is going to be a different animal. New course. New challenges. Many of you are quite familiar with the course already, and that's great. But keep in mind that I feel PP is a MUCH harder race course. All the basic things you need to do in CP go for PP too. If you are feeling confident, the team can try to initiate a breakaway. The way I would do that, if you feel that's the right move, is to have guys start to really ramp it up about 200 meters from S/F line, keeping it going hard and uncomfortable. Crank it a little harder yet on the climb proper (but in reality that whole home stretch is a false flat climb that can really grind on you), harder and harder, and just as you are cresting the climb, the field is strung out, your breakaway guy launches off the front. Short sharp attack. Get a gap. Settle into the highest possible pace you can maintain for many many minutes. If you get a couple of guys with you, then you start rotating through and you keep it moving until you sprint for the finish, or get reabsorbed by the chasing field.

Posted By: John Malcolmson

The road is really beaten up with a few new deep'ish potholes opening up — after the downhill is a total mess so definitely want to be at the front through there. Suggest everyone ride the course and figure out their lines. In terms of strategy, it looks like there'll be little wind, so very hard to get a break away. How about we make it hard on the hill, lap 3 on, see if we can at least gap some riders and get a sense of who's strong. Thoughts?

The park is pretty similar to how it was all last year, except some of the potholes have grown due to the nasty winter. Fortunately, the area where it is really bad is in a very wide section of the park, so you have plenty of room to maneuver around it, but it does come after the big downhill. Nothing to be too worried about though.

Both sat and sun races are now full and looks like we’ll have 4 for sat and 6 sun. We definitely need to keep an eye on the Jacob’s brothers (although they aren’t signed up for Sundays race so I’m not sure they have much interest in winning the overall series) as I’m sure they will try their same attack up harlem hill on the final lap. Also, I think John mentioned Velocity has a large number of riders. Last week, there was a Velocity rider trying to get off the front all the time, so we need to mark them as well. It’s easy to lose position (as I usually do) on the fast portions of the course as riders fly up from the back on the outside of pack, especially before harlem hill. Things usually slow down again at the bottom and you should be able to work back to front fairly quickly as these same riders fall back. It’s super important for us to be near the front up harlem hill and up the first or two rollers as this is where an attack can succeed.

John, thanks for tip about the potholes in PP, I haven’t been over there yet this year. I raced there a few times last year and everything has ended in a bunch sprint, so I’m down to try anything. I like the idea of making it hard on the hill to soften up the legs and see if we can lose a few people who don’t have good form yet. If someone’s feeling strong we could try Marc’s idea of launching off the crest of the climb???

Adam and David, you guys are bad ass for signing up after last week's wicked crash!!

Addendum to Mike Perlberg's post above: to the left of the skittery patch coming out of the narrow curve (the gauntlet, as I call it), the dastardly cones put some riders into squirrely behavior. In my short racing career, I have tended to chose to be the first to go through the curve so that I can pick my line. If I'm flagging and cannot find front position then I tail-spin for that brief section and quickly move-up thereafter.

And to echo what Marc and others have advocated consistently, my current race focus is to learn to keep to the front. The front is where you see what's happening. It's where you learn who is who and what is what. It's where you make moves, cover moves, ignore moves. At the back or in the pack, you don't see very much --at least, I can't see much. Perhaps after having spent lots of time at the front of many races, you can race from some other choice position.

In short, beware of men approaching cones.

Hey cat 5's, I ride with a guy on staten island who is going to be racing cat 5 this Saturday. Real friendly, very strong as well. It will be his first race. He and his buddy ride for halters cycle, a new club just established this year. (Lime green/ blue kit) He asked me if any kissena's will be racing and I told him ofcourse and that you guys meet across registration. If you want he said he will be more then happy to help you guys out (I didn't reveal any of your plans) with whatever is on the agenda. Just a heads up if he approaches you. (You can choose to not let him in on anything as well, i just thought he could help keep John in the leaders jersey.)

Just a reminder to the Cat5s. if you see unattached riders who are strong, we always welcome new members, and it doesn't hurt to have more teammates. Feel free to reach out to them or point them out to me and I will talk to them. Remember it is better to have more teammates looking out for you and vice-versa.

Dan

FYI, on taking assistance from other teams during the course of the race. Technically there are a few ways this can happen. The first, and least complicated way this can happen is if you and another team share common parallel goal and work together towards that goal.

For example, last week the GS Mengoni and Adler teams both had riders in the break and in the field, both teams were blocking. It's not that the Adler guys wanted the Mengoni guys and vice versa to win, it's that they both had separate interests and goals that resulted in a common tactic among two distinct teams.

So, if Wojciech's buddies get one of their guys in a break with a Kissena, then it's perfectly proper and expected that the other Halter Cycle guy will be riding in a manner that happens to help out the Kissena team too.

Another way two teams can legally work together towards a common goal, is for a rider to be a "guest rider" of another team for a specific event. Here's the rule:

"1A11. A guest rider on a team is a rider who is licensed with another club/team not entered in the event, who rides as a “guest” on the team for that specific event."

I did this many years ago when I rode for Kissena at a big Memorial Day Weekend RR in Jersey. I can't currently find how to do it in 2011, but back in the day, I got a letter from my then current club "releasing" me to ride for Kissena at this race, and was lent a Kissena jersey to race in for that day. I assume the process is similar today.

Now those are the two "easy" answers to the question. But like in life there are gradations and other issues to consider. It's awesome that guys out there want to be part of the mighty Kissena machine. It's a sign that we are doing something right, right? So we don't want to discourage folks from coming over to the Blue & Orange side, should they have such an inclination. Now that doesn't necessarily sound like the case with these two guys, who just started with a new club and will no doubt want to grow their own membership base, but I'm just saying...words out, racing with Kissena is fun and fruitful.

Here are some shades of grey to consider. Most of you know that I've been friends with JP for years before I joined the club proper. As such, in many park races, while I wouldn't actively race with or for him, I certainly wasn't going to be the guy initiating the chase if he decided to try to breakaway, for example (I left that job to one of his actual teammates that year--that dude LOVED to chase down his own teammate--p.s. this was during a period that JP was not on Kissena).

Also, I don't think it's wrong to say to few select other riders who you might think have a common interest (see first described scenario), "hey, we're interested in a breakaway today, so we're going to be riding hard and aggressively." And then if that team is smart, they'll keep an eye on you guys and be prepared to send up one of their guys to go with the Kissena. Blam. Shared interest. Two guys from two different teams working together to keep the breakaway strong. Of course you risk telling a team who is only interested in keeping the group together, and in which case they'll just sit on your wheels all day, discouraging your plans.

And if it is a bunch sprint, if another team has, say two guys, and Kissena starts up that wicked leadout train we all dream about, and one of their guys slots in to help power the engine, because he's got a guy that's going to be taking a shot at the sprint too, then that is an action that both helps Kissena and the other team.

So those are some legal and proper ways to involve guys not on your team to get involved with the plans of your team. Other mentors and club officials feel free to chime in here, if I've missed something or said something a little too shady.

It starts to smell a little fishy though, if another team is blocking for a move ahead that has no representatives from their team. Or in the leadout scenario, the other team's guys are 1 and 2 in the leadout train, clearly blowing themselves out of contention long before the final sprint winds up.

hey dudes,

so i forgot to prereg. If i roll up at 6-6;10, do you think there will be a problem getting in/gettingpinned/ getting ready?