I like the sound of that Brendan!

https://www.bikereg.com/33717

Cat 4/5 is filled and cat 4 still has 18 spots open as of this morning.  Lots of room in the 3/4 race.

Thanks Dave, guess I missed out on my plan, reg'd for the 4 and 3/4

Sounds like we can set you and Jeff up for success in the 4.

I think my fitness level is about on par as last year's, which is to say, not good, so I'll be conserving energy at all costs meaning I'm going to let nearly all break attempts go and rely on the rest of the field keeping it together for a bunch sprint at the end.   My goal will be to eat wind going into the bell lap and to stay there through the chute into the final uphill stretch to the finish where I'll die a painful death and you guys can surf wheels in the sprint.

If you guys want a break attempt I'm willing to play rabbit so someone can counter attack, but IMO early season cat4 motivation means anything outside of superhero efforts will be reeled in pretty quickly by the field.

David Yang said:

Sounds like we can set you and Jeff up for success in the 4.

I think my fitness level is about on par as last year's, which is to say, not good, so I'll be conserving energy at all costs meaning I'm going to let nearly all break attempts go and rely on the rest of the field keeping it together for a bunch sprint at the end.   My goal will be to eat wind going into the bell lap and to stay there through the chute into the final uphill stretch to the finish where I'll die a painful death and you guys can surf wheels in the sprint.

If you guys want a break attempt I'm willing to play rabbit so someone can counter attack, but IMO early season cat4 motivation means anything outside of superhero efforts will be reeled in pretty quickly by the field.

David, with all due respect, I think you want to be getting Sean/Jeff/Rigby into top 5 position and then (only if necessary) eating wind from the top of punchy climb. It's going to be so fast on the bell lap, I doubt anyone could lead on the front any more than 30 seconds. Let's practice the finish this weekend, can meet a little early on Sunday for tomb laps. 

JohnMalcolmson said:

David Yang said:

Sounds like we can set you and Jeff up for success in the 4.

David, with all due respect, I think you want to be getting Sean/Jeff/Rigby into top 5 position and then (only if necessary) eating wind from the top of punchy climb. It's going to be so fast on the bell lap, I doubt anyone could lead on the front any more than 30 seconds. Let's practice the finish this weekend, can meet a little early on Sunday for tomb laps. 

John,
     Why not come on the Sunday ride, we'll work on some race-type stuff at Rockleigh, and then, laps at Grant's.

FWIW, if you had four guys leading someone out from the top of the punchy climb, that would be enough.  Short of that, you need to be a bit more careful.  I'd guess two just from the U-turn at the north end of the course.  And you could be close to the front and then rush into the turn from the outside if your close enough.

Looking forward to rolling w/ y'all on Sunday and getting some pro tips from the Grants Tomb vets.

I like the idea of Grant's in the morning.  I haven't ridden around there since 2014? 2015?  I don't even know what hill David is talking about.

leadouts are tough to pull off at our level of tactical skill and fitness. it is easy to think you are leading out your teammate when you are in fact boxing him in (perhaps your effort stays the same but everyone has begun accelerating), or perhaps leading out someone else, etc. the list goes on.  the end of these races is highly variable, never sure who is going to go and when and when it will stick and who is going too soon and will die.  we can talk more when we're on bikes at the site.  i do want to do some laps of the grant's course well in advance of the race though, to know where my "too early" line is... and happily for me i only live 10 minutes from it

My ambitions are definitely much larger than my quads, but I thought about previous years and the biggest obstacle I've faced on final laps of the course was keeping momentum going either due to getting boxed in by slower wheels or getting chopped.

I looked at last year's Garmin file and the power numbers look relatively modest outside of trying to sprint around the slowpokes.  Starting from just before the start/finish and right after the punchy hill turn took approx 1 minute.  There is about 10 seconds of flattish road leading to the fast downhill section, then another 10 seconds of fast downhill until the apex of the chute.  The first racers to hit that downhill will be first guys to pick the fastest line to slingshot out for the final 400 meters to the finish.

So I guess my thought was to put out high and "steady" - but not sprint - watts for one minute at or near the front, sprint out of the punchy hill corner, rest for 10 seconds down hill, then die on the final finishing straight.

I'm counting on the cat 4 field's willingness to let someone else eat wind for as long as possible.  

If I can sit in the 2-4 slot for the first 30 seconds, even better.

But yeah, the main objective as I was mentally working out my own plan was to avoid losing momentum at all costs.

I'll be back in the country in time for a Sunday recon ride. I am very fat on Italian pasta but the sprints have been coming along over the winter. Consider my hat in the ring for the 4/5 race. I can be of service in the 4 race or depending on how things play out I could probably do a bit more.

As we get closer to race day and have a final roster we'll come up with a more definitive stratagem. 

John, also I'm totally in for pre-ride tomb laps on Sunday morning before heading to the bridge.

@JP et al I'd prefer to do an 8am GT session, we could do one on way back as well, but makes the day too long for me. @David Yang just so you see how far it is from punchy climb to finish see below (for scale, GT park is about 200ft wide). Most importantly spot the eating establishment top right of picture.

Right, so the distance looks pretty great, but from the punchy climb to the 180 chute takes under 20 seconds.  The final sprint is approx 400m up that false flat.

Also...

I'll likely sit this race out, since work-training balance has been waaay off lately. It's great to see tactics talk happening early on though! I hope we keep that up as the season moves forward

blargh - I totally forgot I have to help my better half install an art show on Sunday morning – will have to miss the recon ride

Anyone have the technical guide? The link from bikereg is password protected http://www.crca.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016-Grants-Tomb-Race-Guide-1.pdf

Yo - I'm returning from some time off the bike do to some, sciatica-achilles-lower back related issues, but I'm a maybe for this race, if the doc says it's ok. If I can get out there Sunday, I'll see if I'm in enough shape to even offer my lead-out/nasty-watts services

Just registered in cat 5

Sooo, everything I said about my Grant's aspirations are false. I'm only reg'd for the 4 race. NOT the 4/5 race. Sooooo, yeaaahhh.

I'm registered for the pro/am.  
Anyone joining me?

Jeffrey White said:

Sooo, everything I said about my Grant's aspirations are false. I'm only reg'd for the 4 race. NOT the 4/5 race. Sooooo, yeaaahhh.

I always thought for upgrade points if you race a mixed field and place high among your own category racers you still get points.  (This is a way to say that the 3/4 field is still open)

For the tables that follow, note that if the field contains mixed categories (e.g., cat 3-4), then the number of starters is the number of riders that are the same category or higher as the person requesting the upgrade (e.g., in a cat 3-4 combined field, all riders count for a 4-3 upgrade, but only the 3’s count for a 3-2 upgrade.

When categories are combined, such as in a 3-4 race, the finish place is always the raw finish across the finish line, not taking into account the category of the rider. In other words, the category 3 riders are not subtracted out so that the category 4 rider appears to have a higher finishing place. The only time a category is subtracted out for this purpose is if the prize lists were awarded separately for a combined field.

https://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=580

Leave it up to the lawyer to burst my bubble.

I feel that it's somewhat unfair, but what do I know.

Can't have a bunch of Cat 4 slow-pokes in their own special sprint for 16th.

Was good to get a few laps in pre JP's Rockleigh ride last Sunday.

Let's plan another Grant's practice again this Sunday same time. 
We could focus on the full gas effort from the punchy climb part—the more strung-out the field is going into the u-turn before the sprint, the more likely our trains are to win the race. I see no reason why we can't stack podiums if we practice the train and sprint enough times in different conditions.

Challenges:
- having numbers left on bell lap and not having to move up 20 spots because you got swamped/boxed by riders moving up on the right at top of finish straight. Teams start their attacks going into the top right turn, we need to jump on that train to top of punchy climb 
- the 40-45 minute races will be over in a flash—keep a sharp eye on the lap board and listen for bell)
- having the lead-out assembled and in order and at or near front
- delivering the sprinter(s) to 200m (and knowing where 200 is, as well as practiced that effort enough times to feel comfortable)
- rider positioning themselves top 2-19 the entire race
- having the guts to pedal full gas tight through the u-turn into the final
- wind strength and direction and temp on the day
- the trains from other teams
- missing your start: start times are usually later than published due to towing cars, make sure you're fully prepared and warmed up
- warm-up: do hot-laps together on day is good to test the order and the conditions. If this is not possible (likely with back-to-back races), do Team Sky protocol on trainer.
- Dinosaur BBQ

David Yang said:

Leave it up to the lawyer to burst my bubble.

I feel that it's somewhat unfair, but what do I know.

I think there is also the consideration for 4/5 (or 3/4) road races - the "number of starters" is on the number of starters in your category so careful when calculating those points.

How about for those of us racing Grant's, instead of the usual 9am-at-GWB meetup, we meet at 9am at the Tomb? After crit practice we can go over the bridge for a little more riding as desired. This week there's no All Hands ride at 9am to conflict with.

JohnMalcolmson said:

Challenges:

- Dinosaur BBQ

John do you feel challenged by delicious smoked meat?

Anyone else in for post ride Dino BBQ on Sunday (assuming we go over the bridge afterwards so that we roughly coincide with lunch-time)?

Usually not the one to advocate for an earlier wake-up but I think 8:30 at Grant's would be better. Less cars on the road. When we did a 10am GWB meetup a few weeks back it was highly noticeable the increased amount of traffic compared to most weeks that are a 9 am meet-up.

Race technical guide attached.