I'm game for an earlier start Sunday. Down w recon action followed by a GWB ride afterward. This past Sunday a handful of us did some Grant recon then rode to Piermont and back. About 70 miles total. I'd be up for doing that again, especially if it's followed up w some Dino BBQ.

Thanks for the technical guide.  That finish line is waaaaay sooner than we'd all been pretending on Sunday


also, lol, the race guide says that the men's 2/3 is at 2:30 AM.  interesting.

Brendan Rigby said:

Thanks for the technical guide.  That finish line is waaaaay sooner than we'd all been pretending on Sunday

Check out the satellite map above, it has the actual finish line marked on it. The technical guide is what's way off. That is if they're sticking to the one they've used for the last four years.

now i'm confused about what information is coming from where. who made the satellite map?

the hand drawn map in the pdf might be correct; maybe they are moving the finish up sooner because they don't want it so close to the turn

I made the satellite map, it has last 200 meters marked on it. I'm fairly certain CRCA haven't bothered to update the tech guide map. Yang has it at 400m from u-turn which matches.

According to my Garmin file from last year, measuring from the exit of the u-turn up to where I stop pedaling (i.e. finish) the distance is approx .26 miles or 419m.  

X-posting... Don't fancy doing hot laps around GT in 20 degrees Sunday. Let's plan on normal 9am GW and we can do a couple when we come back past. 

looks like the finish line is at the 2d to last light post on the left before the turn and if the group is slow you can begin an early effort well before the temple, transitioning into a sprint at the temple, https://youtu.be/kswbWYi5Dws?t=37m21s

winner in this race went early

He definitely went early, good move when there was clearly no teammates/leadouts from what i could see

so what's the plan for tomorrow for the grant's recon? After the ride or before?

I won't go over the GWB, too cold for more than 2h. I prefer an early meet at GT!?

I won't go over gwb either, too cold. I am up for a recon ride at 10am at GT for whom is in...

I'm bailing people—too much Bordeaux, not enough je ne sais quoi.
. 

I won't go at 10. Way too cold, I will try around 12-1pm...

Watch out for traffic and pedestrians that late into the day.

It's way too cold.

forecast is saying around 20 degrees for 9am Saturday, before wind chill. plan to dress appropriately. 

are there any Kissena branded parkas?

If this forecast doesn't improve, I'm bowing out. Sorry guys, I don't roll under 25. Plus, there is a chance of snow Friday. It's a long season.

What the hell is up with this weather? I get my hopes up riding outdoors all weeklong in temperate conditions then BANG the cold descends on Friday and wears out its welcome hanging around all weekend. 

Wet or ice I don't race.

Dry and cold, I'll race.

Sounds good to me @David Yang

HT...

I suppose I'll roll if Yang rolls. It's as good a standard as any.

Men's 4/5 roll call
John Olsson
Ben Fino-Radin
Sebastian Vidal

How do you guys want to play this?

Third place from BB last weekend is lining up:
David Ramirez (unattached)
https://www.facebook.com/lucarelli.castaldi.spring.series/photos/pcb.1830453877205821/1830453840539158/?type=3&theater

I don't know much about how John's been training this cold winter, but I know Sebastian had a good sprint finish last week and Ben has very solid legs and fitness for this time of year. 

A couple of strategies come to mind:

1. Go for the sprint with a leadout. This would mean dropping the sprinter off at the temple. Everyone conserves for this one single effort.

2. Go for the sprint with a reserved sprinter only and try to participate in any decisive moves with a roleur. This would mean the sprinter should conserve his energy until the temple and freelance the sprint. The other racers would maintain observation positions near the front of the race and join the most promising breakaway.

Any opinions?

(Note that neither of these strategies involves "closing gaps," or "pulling through," or "joining the chase," or "blocking," or any other name for "pulling the peleton around." None of these tactics is invalid per se, but ya'll don't have the numbers.)

Jeffrey White said:

A couple of strategies come to mind:

1. Go for the sprint with a leadout. This would mean dropping the sprinter off at the temple. Everyone conserves for this one single effort.

2. Go for the sprint with a reserved sprinter only and try to participate in any decisive moves with a roleur. This would mean the sprinter should conserve his energy until the temple and freelance the sprint. The other racers would maintain observation positions near the front of the race and join the most promising breakaway.

Any opinions?

I think you can do both--with four guys, you can have three fairly active, and save one of the finish, with at least two of the three agreeing to end the attacks with four to go.  Have one guy who is free to go with a longshot last-moment attack, freeing the rest of you not to chase and then do a readout at the end.  And I'm guessing with two guys and a sprinter, you have one to move you up until just before or just after the u-turn at the north end, one to go for about 250-300m, and the sprinter to finish it off.

maybe I'm too ambitious.

It's just three of them unfortunately. I sadly failed to register for this winnable race. I'm in the 4-only race, with five KCC teammates. Comparably, we will not be a very large team in that race. I would like to focus on the 4/5 race for a minute before we get into the more interesting dynamics of the 4 race

I think without team practice or experience racing a lot with teammates, freelancing the sprint is the most realistic move.

Another move could be a sacrificial rabbit starting the sprint early, and I mean creating a dangerous looking gap forcing others to chase, so that the actual designated sprinter can surf those wheels and the sprint for the win.

So there are three classic strategem on the table:

1. Go for the sprint with a leadout. This would mean dropping the sprinter off at the temple. Everyone conserves for this one single effort.

2. Go for the sprint with a reserved sprinter only and try to participate in any decisive moves with a roleur. This would mean the sprinter should conserve his energy until the temple and freelance the sprint. The other racers would maintain observation positions near the front of the race and join the most promising breakaway.

3. Rabbit + sprinter. The rabbit starts the sprint early, forcing other excitable sprinters to chase him down. The sprinter, knowing the game, surfs their wheels and starts his sprint at the appropriate place (the temple).

I'm a big fan of #3 especially with inexperienced fields because it's a checkmate move. Don't chase? He's gonna win! Chase? Other people eat wind and launches a teammate waiting behind them.

It's harder to pull off irl of course, but when it works it's a pretty solid move. And very little pre-coordination is needed.

One prerequisite for strategy #3 is that the rabbit and the sprinter conserve themselves for the entire race, save this one maneuver. 

Not having practiced the leadout with Seb & John I think #3 sounds like the most fun – I can certainly try to be the rabbit for Sebastian. >:-)

When should I aim to get into position on the front for that? 2nd to last lap?