Seeing as it will be dry Saturday and rainy Sunday, I want to take the wimpy way out and ride Saturday in order to be cold & dry.

Anyone riding ? If not, anyone want to meet me for a semi slowish ride ? Caveat: I am fully willing to break myself in two in deference to Keith's recent post, however I know my version of intense is not fully intense for other folks. aka, I am slow.
If there is not already an established ride plan, I will be at the GWB at 9:30am

Sunday - lets go watch CX Nationals at NYC Velo (separate post coming up)

Joshua C
646-235-2336

I agree that Sat looks like the day to ride.
I suggest we stick to the standard 8:00am Brooklyn Bridge, 9:00am GWB.
I'll be on the West Side bike path shortly after 8.
David

Good point, and agreed. I'll be at GWB at 9am , not 9:30.

Kittens and puppies? Are you serious? There are not more wily animals on the planet. These evil beasts have insinuated themselves into our lives to the point that we can't live without them. Every "cute" thing a dog or cat does is about the same goal; give them food and shelter. They've been bred to play us this way and we're fools for allowing this cuteness to distract us.

I just want to point out to those who don't know you, me, or Keith well that we've been riding together for years and years. Has it only been eight? And we do much of this riding together in the winter where we bundle up to face the cold, wind, bad roads, steep hills, plenty of rain and snow, and our demons. We love it in a way that might not be the best for our health, but we enjoy it too much to stop and we'd love to pass this lovely habit on to others. Your six hour ride (it was truly planed to be a three-hour tour, maybe four) last Sunday would have been more epic with company to commiserate, no?

I will lay out winter training plans and how they fit into an annual training plan at my upcoming talk Tuesday.

I'll also take this moment to put in my annual suggestion that people actually go out in the worst possible conditions at least once this winter. By this, I mean the most miserably cold days as well as the the most miserably wet and cold days. The latter I define as raining between 32 and 40 degrees Fahrenheit. You don't have to go far, if you live near a park, just go to the park and ride laps. If you don't have a park near you ride laps on a lightly-trafficked loop near your hose. The reason is to learn how to survive these conditions and overcome any fear you might have about racing in them. The reason is that there may be a race in the future that you've been focusing on for months and race day arrives and the weather is awful. I don't want to to mentally throw in the towel before the start or give up early because it's miserable out. Just make your warmest, smartest clothing and fender suggestions and get out there. As you get cold, or even as you get hot, you'll start to figure out what works and what doesn't. When you get too cold to deal, ride home and thaw out. Think about what you could have done better. I should probably re-post this as a separate discussion, but this is where I'm thinking of it.

There should be plenty of opportunities to hook up with different Kissenas, myself included, gathering for various group rides starting at 8BB and 9GW.

ugh.

RIde in the rain with me tomorrow in Prospect Park. 930 - ride opposite until you see me.

This is specifically designed to induce suffering. Install your fender, please.

Eric

Great idea. Looks like if it's not raining by 8, it will be raining by 11.

Might even ride out to Brooklyn.

JP

If it's not raining when I go out, I'll stay out longer! 3+ hours!!

9am for me
eric oRiginal

how was the ride this morning (you nutcases)?

warm, not that wet, just a bit of rain twice...
;-):cool:

Charlie urged me to post his usual winter ride advice. It boils down to this:

Put on some new tires. We don't like stopping in the cold/wet to wait for people to fix flats.

Yesterday I saw several flats (both in our group and generally on the road).
DO NOT USE YOUR OLD RACING TIRES.
Get some new tires that are meant for training. They do not have to be expensive, just new (e.g. Vredestein .Fiammante Duocomp from our sponsor - Veltec).

Other tips:
I like to bring a spare pair of gloves to change half way through the trip. Dry gloves are nice for the way home.
Use shoes that are a bit large so the circulation in your feet is adequate to keep them warm. You can stick a chemical warmer between your socks when it gets really cold.
Get a clip on rear fender for wet weather. A dry butt is a good thing.
Wear some kind of gaiter around your neck that you can pull up over your chin when it is really cold, or down as the day warms up. Your neck and collar bone area are critical for temperature regulation. I read that we have a supply of brown fat in that region, which is used to burn energy to keep us warm. I believe that this explains why, when it is cold, we have an urge to zip up our jerseys (and visa versa).
David

I'm not sure this is the right thread... if so please repost this where it should go.

I'm also not sure if you guys have any plans, but I'm looking to do some 9w "group" miles saturday, could be at the GWB at 9 am. If anyone wants to lead/ set the pace and tempo that's fine too

Wojciech

Yeah, new tires are great. I bought new tires and have flatted 6 times. NONE were pinch flats so don't even bring that up. Last year I actually did ride my old race tires (Vittoria CX open with natural tam sidewalls no less) and did not flat once in over 2,500 miles From October 6 until 2010. That said I rode alone mostly and it was probably an anomoly.
Still have never owned a fender. Maybe one day.

Enough of that stuff. Regarding sat and or sun I will most likely ride saturday and maybe sunday as well. I'd like to get in 80-90 miles with a trip past the orchard in Conklin perhaps. I'll figure it out in the coming days. I don't mind company but come prepared. That means tubes, food, and money. I try to avoid stops except for water, etc. Not into the social stop at the muffin store on weekends. Too long off the bike.

I'm killing the old "41" blog and starting a new one called "chasing stupid". You can figure out who or what is "stupid".

Keith

Posted By: keith snyderYeah, new tires are great. I bought new tires and have flatted 6 times. NONE were pinch flats so don't even bring that up. Last year I actually did ride my old race tires (Vittoria CX open with natural tam sidewalls no less) and did not flat once in over 2,500 miles From October 6 until 2010. That said I rode alone mostly and it was probably an anomoly.
Still have never owned a fender. Maybe one day.

it does seem that there is a highly vulnerable initial break-in period for tubes and tires

if you install wrong (or if anything is wonky) they will go flat

the ones that are installed just perfectly will last

First, should we start a new thread for Saturday ride annoucements and a separate one for Sunday ride announcements?

That written, who's ready to ride Saturday in Jersey? So far, Jeff, Marc, Keith, Wojciech, and I think a fwe others have expressed interest. I'm in. Keith expressed an interest in riding to the orchard of conklinville.

JP

I'm up for a ride tomorrow, Sat., and also seeing how this forum works.

Craig

Also up for saturday morning

I am up for a early turn around on Saturday. Have to be somewhere in the afternoon.

I don't think I've seen a start time posted. I'd love to stick to the early side of things, as I'm sure Dan would--though Wojciech wouldn't.

Is 9am at the bridge too early?

JP

9am gwb is good for me.

-j.

9 am sounds good!

8AM @ Brooklyn Bridge & 9AM at GWB NJ side.

Wont be able to make it, bummer. Enjoy guys

It was really good. New routes for me. Some hills. Ye old orchards. Not too hammery, but no long stops, so that was good. Got much warmer. 90+ miles. Pretty exhausted in the good way. Thanks, JP, Marc, et al.

So, the Kissena Sunday ride. The usual means 8am at the Brooklyn Bridge, roll to the GWB. 9am at the GWB. Roll North.

Keeping people waiting in the cold is bad news. Let's try to keep the waits down to 5 minutes.

Our traditional route is most simply described as out on the low road, back on 9W.

We ride north on Hudson Terrace to the end, then left on Palisade Avenue. Take that to the light at Summit ave. Turn right. Take Summit to end. Left on Lyncrest. Take to End. Right on N. Woodland. To end. Left on East Clinton Ave. To first light. Right on Engle Street. To end. Left on Hudson Ave. To first light. Right onto County Road. Bear right onto Anderson Ave. Take to Homans Ave. Turn left. Take to first light. Right onto Piermont Road.

A group typically turns right in Sparkill to roll up to 9W and then right on 9W to go back to Palisades Ave in Englewood Cliffs.

People who don't have the fitness or time can turn right, ride up to 9W and back by turning right on Hillside Avenue shortly after we turn on County Road (goes up to 9W in Cresskill). A bit further down the road, you can make a right turn onto Closter Dock off of Anderson (goes up to 9W in Closter). A bit further, just after we turn onto Piermont road, there's a right onto Rockleigh road up to 9W (in Palisades, NY). Then, just after state line there is Oak Tree Road that takes you to 9W (same spot in Palisades, NY).

Another group typically goes further. Sometimes going around Clausland Mountain to Nyack. Sometimes riding to Rockland Lake. Sometimes to the end of Rockland Lake.

Typically, the ride is steady and a speed that everyone can handle until the turnaround. There is sometimes a sprint for the state line on Piermont road. Typically, the groups do a harder rotating paceline once on the 9W flats. The group that goes past Sparkill often climbs some longer hills around Nyack, usually pretty hard, but there is regrouping afterwards.

Bring water, bring food.

We try to avoid stopping for many reasons: the cold, the cooldown, the warmup, and the bigger the group is the longer stops take.

Also, those who want to ride in Jersey but don't want to deal with the ride in the City, the 1 Train goes to 181st, the A train to 175th--and our subways actually run on a schedule which you can find on the MTA wbsite. There is also parking on both sides of the bridge for those who want to drive. You can always hop the train at the bridge on the way back if you're blown.

Looks like there is snow or rain forecast for Sunday 12/19. Guess that means we'll have a good turnout.

Sorry I don't have the distances down. Hopefully, someone can post the distances from the BB to the GWB and GWB to these spots so those unfamiliar with the ride know what they're in for.

JP

I actually prefer fully grown CATS & DOGS. But then I hate kids too so...
Sarcasm alert!
The main point I was trying to make and obviously failed to do so regarding winter riding within the bounds of group rides and the dynamic of the club-THIS club- is that it is important to not just do whatever everyone else is doing because that's what everyone else does. I wanted to stress to those seeking guidance that each rider needs to evaluate their situation and do what fits them regardless of what "the group" is doing. That said one can easily adapt any group ride to different needs unless, of course the ride is above the individual's pay grade so to speak.
I have been on tightly controlled group rides in the past and was frustrated. That was MY problem to solve. Nowadays if I'm catching a group ride I have a few variables as far as training to adapt if the ride is not the exact thing I wanted. I believe it is of great necessity and of great value to do group rides especially our team rides because of the skills aspect and the opportunity to know your racemates, their strengths and weaknesses. If I find myself catching a group ride that is more than I wanted and I'm not up to a harder ride then I can always bail and no one loses.
When I post a ride I try to give specifics so those interested can decide if it works for them. When I'm unsure of the ride or there are other extenuating circumstances then I don't post.
As far as winter training goes and the whole "base miles/LSD/ intensity discussion goes it really comes down to a point I made in regarding strength training. It's about quantity and quality. I have the luxury of riding hundreds of hours and 10,000+ miles a year. I'm lucky in that respect. Many people don't have that available time so I feel they should try to maximize their time for the greatest benefit in regard racing ability. That means sacrificing the traditional "base" and concentrating on greater intensity. None of us race 3-week grand tours so training like those who do is counter productive. Even if I were to race regional Pro 1/2 races instead of cat 3 I would rarely if ever even race 100 miles. Training like guys who race 250km classics-at least the part about "base" and LSD-is silly. Anyone can ride 100km and doing it in a race is many times even easier especially in the lower amateur categories. Unless a road course has features (read hills) that will create a bit of attrition, the pace is rarely so hard that one cannot just sit in the field. Races are made (won or lost) on a rider's ability or lack thereof to respond to relatively short, intense efforts. We don't climb 10 mile alpine ascents. Our hills are short. To give you an idea of what I'm trying to say I'll us the example of the this year's Tokeneke Classic. Of the 80 or so cat 3 riders in the race I doubt there was anyone who logged more miles of training whether it was winter or seasonal training than I did. While there are some reasonable features on the course and there was a little attrition it was a big field with 10km left after 60 miles and 5000-6000'' of climbing. How many just sat in and took their chances on the final 2 mile climb? How many of them had nothing to say in the final? If you said about 90% of them then go to head of the class. While I understand that there are natural ability levels and as I say you can't make a race horse out of a donkey (I know, I have tried for 10 years and I still suck) I maintain that one can maximize their ability by properly focusing on the type of training that applies to the type of racing that one plans to do.
THAT is the main point.
In response to the USA Cycling excerpt I'll say this: I hate USA Cycling. But they do state very vague, simplistic ideas in the passage. My concern is that too many of the folks around these parts do these things in December, January, and February when I believe the preparatory period should be earlier. One cannot expect to be doing preparatory training in January and be ready to race in March. I think many people wonder why they aren't ready for Spring races and their performance isn't what they wanted. If you are targeting June or July then great Jan and Feb is fine. Just don't expect to be flying in early April. Unless you are a racehorse. Those people know who they are and I hate to them I say "I hate you all". Yes, sarcasm again.
I will torture you all again soon but with a more cohesive, well thought out piece.
I'll probably post it here:

www.chasingstupid.tumblr.com

Keith

Provided it's not snowing at 8:30 am this 12/26/10, I'm in for 9am at the GWB. anyone else joining me?

My preference is to ride to the north end of Rockland Lake before turning back. People are free to peel off and head back whenever they've had their fill.

JP

12/26/10 Kissena Sunday ride.

It wasn't snowing. I went. No one else came for the party.

Figured I could handle an hour to an hour and a half in the snow without problem. So whenever it hit, I'd turn around and ride for home. Amazingly enough it hit at about an hour and a half from home. by Nyack Hospital, on the way home. By the time I crossed stateline, there were two furrows on the shoulder and I was chasing the makers. Never caught them. The Jersey roads were covered, but it was a dusting. Hudson Terrace was wet but not icy. GWB was almost blown clean by the southerly wind. Almost meant the area around the towers was covered, and I slipped a bit, but kept it upright. Figured I was in the clear on city streets. Wrong. I slid out at 165th and St. Nicholas, two miles from home. Front wheel went sideways on some ice.

Still, considering how much snow is falling, glad I got out.

JP