Kissena Forum Archive

Pawling Mountain RR

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Nice job Adam and co!

I was in the NYVelocity guy's inability-to-adjust-the-limit-screws-on-his-derailleur flop, sending his chain into the spokes and cascading riders over to the side I was on.  Todd was able to ride through the dirt and stay up but I got banged into.  Tried to get up and chase......chain off. Durrr.  Fix it, but the field is pretty gone at that point.

Got to within maybe 20 seconds on the highway climb, but with 4 guys trying to catch 25 or so, it was over once they crested the second kicker.  I dropped everyone else in the chase in a last desperate attempt, but when Norm informed me that I was over a minute down, I considered the fact I'd been chasing for 10 miles and I was alone.....and it was towel time.  Nice to see Condon and Patrick ride up for a nice hard training ride on the rollers though!

Thanks to Laura and Norm for the feed, and of course, Jules, who made it all possible by letting a maniac like me borrow his family truckster.

At least I broke my "crash in a race" cherry.  But I dunno if it counts if you're going around 10mph...uphill...
Kudos to the Cat 3 guys that brought it today. It was no joke. Part of me is really glad the the State Championship was for real. The other part of me wants to die.

We went screaming up the the first climb and I got dropped about 3/4 of the way up, even after putting out 407W for the first 5 minutes... ouch. The chase was futile, although we had a nice group and we kept racing. I'll spare you the rest. I'll let one of the skinny bros chime in for that.

The field was shattered. People dropped out left and right. We went swimming. I need to lose like 300lbs.

http://tpks.ws/OJs8
Jesus Vlad, that's savage.  And for what it's worth, the NormP number is even more impressive (and relevant, depending on who you ask)
the 3's went FAST up those climbs today - lot's of big names dropped or quit, so don't feel bad if you were among them.

i felt really really good all day, and Ryan took super good care of me, but on the last ascent of the big climb, i got some INTENSE cramps, not just in my legs but in my arms too!  WTF ARMS?!?!  it was all i could do to keep the bike upright.  Ryan rode by me and I was all [demon voice] "KEEP GOING!"

once the cramps let up a bit, i rode back up to Ryan and we did a 2man TT for the next 8 miles, catching a bunch of stragglers.  on the highway climb, i tried to bridge out of our chase group on my own, but i just got caught in no-man's land once the pack crested and started descending.  we more or less rode it in after than, except when i rode ahead to push Kyle Murphy (BH, Evan's little bro) up the steep part of the hill; his shifter had broken, leaving him in the 11, and he was about to tip over when i caught up to him and gave that skinny ass a shove.

the best part of this course is the descending, and my favorite part of that is the hard left off of the final climb that reeeeeally leans you over but never let's you go (kind of like Joe Muellers arms).  Kyle and I gave that one last rip then crossed the finish together. 

I was so happy to see all my KCC dudes (and Papa Bear) and super grateful for the feeding and encouragement.  

the swimming afterwards was, as usual, the bomb diggity.

the great thing about KCC is that when the race don't go your way, at least there's a chance Dave Vollbach will be wearing a flimsy muscle shirt.

big ups to Adam and Tito and everyone else who battled the heat and the vertical today.

[fisbump]
Yeah, I had a lot of fun today. 

WDC is right, the climbs were just balls out, every one. It was clear that some of the climbers wanted to knock off as much wood as possible. The first lap was so hard that I started to worry about how long I could stay in the race. But when I made it through lap two with the main selection my confidence grew.

I just couldn't quite stay with the group the last time up the big climb. Willie had cramped and told me to keep going and it was one of those moments where you say "okay, I can bury myself and stay on but that might ruin me for good. Or I can back off a little and try to come back on the descent." Chose the latter. Never got back. And really, I was cooked, so I think it was the right choice. As for what happened after...what Willie said.

I wish we had brought home some better results but I think we raced tough. Half the field didn't finish. If you had told me at the start of the day that William and I would both finish in front of serious riders like Al Barouh, Warren St. John, and Nick Van Winkle - who all got dropped and then dropped out - I'd have been very excited. 

That's how friggin' hard this race was!

Congrats to the 4s - especially Adam. We also had a masters rider who I don't know get 2nd. Its that guy who has the Quattro Assi, like Stokers.
Ed Nolan - 2nd Place - NYS Champs RR. Sweet.
NICE!

OK - So here is a brief report.

This is one hard race. But I really like it. I will be back next year to take my cracks at it again, ideally 10 lbs lighter between the body and the bike.

It started nice and mellow, but boy was it fucking hot. The shade at the start felt manageable, but once we were in the open sun I had the summer jersey unzipped with no base layer and I was still overheating.

Things were tight on the rollers, but I managed to wiggle my way towards the front for the first big climb. People slammed on the gas. I am still a bit in shock at how aggressively we rode that climb, of course it mellowed out over the top as people were gassed...

30 sec: 508 watts
1 min: 457
2 min: 440
5 min: 376
10 min: 346

so basically those were my power peaks for the day starting from the bottom of the climb to heading over the top. OUCH.

Anyway, I chugged my fat ass close to the front for the start, and proceeded to strategically drift back. About midway up the climb, someone says to me "back!" Holly shit, 1/2 the field is already gone and I'm at the back a lot quicker than I would have liked. No worries, latched on and rested on the descent. Only a few folks (5-10) managed to catch back on during the descent, but they were quickly re-shed from the group.

The highway climb was hard, until I realized I was in my big ring. OOPS. Got out of that and spun up it.

The steep climb was really hard, and a gap started forming. Dave V was behind the gap with about 6 other riders, and heading to the feed zone I knew we would catch back on quickly so I decided to let the other riders close the gap.

Only managed 1 bottle in the feed zone, which proved to be pretty critical. I finished that bottle within 5 mile of leaving the feed zone and then I was out of water. Uh ohhh. A little ways up the big climb I got shot out the back. Just couldn't turn the pedals. In retrospect, I always wonder how much harder I could have gone but I'm pretty sure I was toast on this one.

I road for almost 10 minutes before any other Cat 3s caught me. Wow. Front group was moving. Some guy was handing out ice cold poland spring bottles on the climb, which I'm pretty sure was the only thing standing between me and heat stroke. Thank you guy!

I got in this little group and sat on just to get home quicker. There were some guys doing a serious chase but I didn't have the heart to tell them how far behind they were.

On the really steep hill to the finish the masters field was catching me so I pulled off the road to let them by. Here I saw Al B. We chatted and traded excuses, but damn does it feel good knowing Al, Warren, Nick and a host of other studs DNF'd as well.

As Al and I rolled in he asked if I wanted to sprint (1 lap down) to confuse Alan and the officials. I said, let's sprint for the feed zone crowd as well. So we did. True to my predictions about form, I set new power highs for everything under 9 seconds. 1079 watts for 10 seconds with a peak at 1402. Errr, if I could only get over the hills. :)

BTW. Ryan and William had incredible performances today. Vlad and Dave made me feel like a wimp for not finishing, great job finishing what you started.

Thanks Joe, Sterns, Papa DC, Aly, and everyone else who helped feed and take care of us.

Next year Pawling, next year!


First of all, hats off to Adam and Tito for their very strong placings.....Tito, def understand the "funk" but dude....to finish anywhere near top 10 over that course and with that heat is damn impressive.  

First climb def seemed the hardest - and its where I was dropped. In hindsight, I felt like if I could have just stuck w pack over top of that first kicker, I might have been OK.   Didn't help to lose momentum on the hill with the pack hitting the brakes on the uphill b/c of Mr. Velocity's encounter with Owens.  Anyway, after I got 2/3 to top, saw Whitey on side of the road (thought he had had the mechanical but I see now he was just being a total pro for Condon). 

I stopped next to him and offered to help him get some time back on the descent/flat ahead. He told me yes but to get a head start and he'd catch before downhill began.  I didn't see him right away so I sat up. He caught on descent. 

We worked together, passing a few dropped riders here and there.  Turning on to long drag up Rt 55 - which actually seems to be the kind of climb I'm suited for - a long stretch where I can just turn out a strong tempo.....Knowing I wasn't going to be doing anything for myself b/c of my weakness on the steeper hills, I decided to just empty myself to help Whitey......By now i think we were a group of about 6....but not really working together - it was more me and Whitey pulling 2 waffles & dinges guys, a Ride Brooklyn guy who's name I can't recall, and someone else. 

Just as that long drag was starting I totally Schlecked my chain. I was able to keep going w/o dismounting, but told Jeff not to wait. It sucked.  I guess I lost about 25-30 seconds to that little chase group.  Started to spin out that high tempo.  I brought back Ride Brooklyn and the anonymous guy first, and dropped them on the long drag. 

Whitey was gone, but I caught the 2 waffles guys on the last steepie that followed. Dropped one guy outright, another stuck with me - he was big, athletic, definitely a park sprinter.  Knowing there was a good descent followed by 8 miles of flats/rollers ahead before the next climb on lap 2, I offered my wheel. He took it.  We paced each other all the way to the feed zone before lap 2. We were flying. I felt energized - thought maybe together we could pick up a few more stragglers and at least finish the second lap quickly.  I got a new bottle, not the one I wanted, dropped it, grabbed another one (thanks Norm!) prepared to take another pull with the big Waffles dude, but he quit!  Just gave me that sign and bailed. (I understand why people don't finish - but I was determined to finish  - it was an opportunity to improve my fitness on a course like that - and to justify waking up at 4:45 am!!!)

So, I rode the last 20 miles solo. Not sure where, or how I finished, but I'm glad I did.  I averaged about 1 hour/ lap.  That was one good, hard test.  Great swim in the lake with Aly,  followed by manning the feed zone with Handsome Joe and WDC's pops.  Thanks to Vlad and Aly for the entertainment on the drive there and back - out-of-town races are fun....

Exhausted. Long day. I'll be back!!!!

Results, bros

http://fastalracing.com/PMRR12Results.pdf
Sounds like an Epic day.  Huge props to the lot of you!
I spent the day sweltering in the NYC subway trying to get myself, stroller & a toddler to the finish line of the NYC Triathlon in time to see mamma bear cross the line.  Fail! 
Took me 90 minutes to get from the slope to west side of the park & 72nd street.
Looking forward to this leg smasher next year.
Funny part from yesterday.  So, we were dropped and would form random chase groups and guys would blow here and there, the usual.  One guy that was with me since my crash was Percy from East End.  Super nice guy.  I pulled him a decent amount of the way and would drop him on the steep sections, but he's strong and did a fair amount of work, just to get finished ASAP!

But then his teammate, Chris Schenker I suppose, caught on and proceeded to "conspire" against me!  You 4's might recognize him as the bow-legged and bow-armed rider who has a crab-stance (a bit older fella, all veiny too) and who's also super sketch in park races, especially going uphill (it was crazy how so many riders in our field were all over the place swinging their bikes when the road turned up. More skittish handling than at any other time in the race).  Anyway, the last time up the highway incline, he's telling Percy, "Make him do all the work.  Let him drag us around.  He's going hard and we'll be able to attack him and come around at the end".  I dunno if he thought I couldn't hear him, but I just said, "Dude, you guys can do whatever you want, I'm just riding this one in.  We got dropped an hour ago".  Chris is like "Oh, are we not racing anymore? You guys don't wanna sprint?".  Uhhhhhh....We're like 10 minutes down dude!

I dropped them on the kickers, picked up an ARC guy, they all got back on and then those two out-"sprinted" me for 35th and 36th.  Congrats.  But Percy and I shook hands across the line and he even made fun of his teammate. 

Ah, I love the randomness of bike racing.  See you guys at Pawling next year!

WDC:  I've cramped so hard I've had face-cramps.  Srsly.

Face cramps?

image
not much to report on my end.
Came up the first big hill in the lead group, passed jeff w. who i heard say to jeff c. 'what do you need?' after his front wheel flatted. I thought to myself: jeez that must suck! and admired his generosity. Moments later- while descending and very pleased with the fact that we were about 10 riders at the front clear of the rest of the field- I almost lost control of my bike; I looked down to my front tire and all my hopes for doing well at this race crumbled.
I waited and waited, saw grupettos chasing, for about a minute or two, enough for me to completely catch my breath from that brutal climb. I got another front wheel from the service car and was told 'good luck'...that said it all. I knew I was never gonna see that field again. I chased and chased, passing many riders, I was dead last. Once or twice I would get caught on the downhills but then would take off on the flats and bridge to more riders when the gradients smiled at me.
Its a fun course, well organized and close to the city.
I'll be back with a vengeance...in the meantime I'm gonna sharpen my legs at floyd.
Tour of the Hilltowns is next!


I will scribe a description of yesterday's race.  I'll start with the last climb on the final lap, as most of the previous stuff has been described aptly: it was hard.

We got to the final climb with a group of around 20-25 or so.  Prior to this, Tito and I (sorry Todd, I didn't see you at that point otherwise would have made an effort to include you in the chit chat) decided to attempt something on the last climb in an effort to avoid the sprint.  I made myself comfortable in the group about 10th wheel as to ensure I didn't have to fight any unnecessary wind at all.

We arrived at the final climb and the group hit hyperdrive.  We rocketed up the climb.  At this point I was having the inevitable inner battle that one has with one's self when you have decided on a plan of action and when the time comes you are in pain.  However, anticipating this I still tried something.  I did whatever I could at this point but as the group didn't clump together and slow so much in the climb as I expected, my 'move' simply served to take me from my 10th wheel perch up to about 3rd wheel.  This was the back up plan in any case as I was insistent on picking my own line from the front on that sketchy descent.  So, although I was not able to make a gap, partly due to my position (which I do not regret as it meant I got a toasty and wind free ride down the descent leading to final climb) and partly because the group lit it up on the ascent, I did get a better position.  At the crest of this climb the group had fallen from ~20-25 (not totally sure) to about 14.

So, on to the sprint.  I am not an out and out sprinter but I rate my chances in a group after a really long ride so had it in my mind, knowing that the group was the size it was, that I would go for the sprint and not a Tommy V 1km-to-go flyer.  We take the final turn onto the final straight for the run in.  I'm nicely perched on the side of the group; getting enough shelter but with plenty of room to move.  I move up to a position about 5th wheel-ish and then think to myself 'OK, what's this?'.  Just in front of me is the guy who survived all 80 miles of the Hunter Mountain Spring Classic with me and managed to take 2nd in the bunch gallop at that point, beating me by about 3 bike lengths on that day.  He's a big guy (I'd be surprised if much less than 190lb), lots of shelter.  Perfect I thought to myself, that's my wheel!  I closed up behind, sticking both elbows out Eddy Merckx style (a tactic I learnt from Christian to get people to back off: it really works, try it!).  I got behind and stayed there like glue for the final 500m run in.  At this point I figured the sprint would go as follows: someone goes way too early at 300m, blows by 150m, then the rest jump.  Astonishingly, this was one of the most well behaved and well timed sprints I have seen in Cat4.  The distance markers were tumbling but still no jump.  400m...300m...then, exactly on cue, 200m it goes.  I'm on the left, with my leadout, the jump on the right goes.  Unfortunately, my leadout is a little slow to respond.  He mistimes it.  He goes, I am still on his wheel but he isn't closing fast enough as the sprint was launched perfectly.  We're running out of road to the line  I begin to move round but as he was a little hesitant, I get ever so slightly boxed in by a guy who moves up on my left.  The wheel I followed eventually took 4th.  I got 7th as by the time I came off his wheel, 2 people behind were into full sprint mode and edged me by a wheel or so.  Balls.

I am sorry I could get us a better return for the day.  It's one of those things.  I made a plan for the sprint on what was sound logic and stuck to it.  Unfortunately for me, the wheel I picked ever so slightly mistimed his jump.  That's sprinting I guess; you are either strong enough to go it alone and without a leadout, or, if you follow wheels, you enter the lottery and not everything is in your own hands.  Meh.

A million thanks to Jeff W for putting me and Laura up the night before in his apartment.  A true gentleman.  Thanks to Jules for lending us the Kissena Team Van to drive to the race in.

One final thing, to get an idea of the final climb, as I have no power meter, here's the HR data.  In my sprint, which was perhaps a ~95% effort as I was not all out, until right at the end as I followed wheels, my HR hit 198.1 BPM.  On the final climb, it hit 197.7 BPM.  My 1 hour lactate threshold is ~185 BPM.  Pain-cave-climb.
post-Pawling, pack of perverts pose w/ assorted papusas
Why hasn't White posted the pic of the matterhorn of meat that he and Norm consumed post-race?
post-Pawling, pack of perverts pose w/ assorted papusas
There are 0 lies in this sentence. My post race eating also helps explain my during race difficulty with hills.
Old forum allowed me to highlight and "quote" selections from a post...new forum, "quotes" the whole passage regardless where I highlight. Grrrr---fuhnoying.

"
it was one of those moments where you say "okay, I can bury myself and
stay on but that might ruin me for good. Or I can back off a little and
try to come back on the descent." Chose the latter. Never got back. And
really, I was cooked, so I think it was the right choice."

Ryan, I'm going to say that 90% of the time, you are going to want to bury yourself to stay on and not back off the way you did. There are always exceptions to this, but it's almost always going to be harder to chase back than suffer for a few minutes more with your tongue licking asphalt. It's a few minutes of high intensity effort, versus a much longer period of almost as high effort that is just going to dull and tire your legs like rudely slapping a Japanese chef's knife against a bamboo cutting board. If you suffer for a few more VO2/Supramax minutes, you'll be in the bunch, and have more time of actual recover. Instead, you force yourself into chase mode, which is going to last 3 or 4 times whatever gap you've let go when you start chasing.
^ i think we all know this to be true, but the 3rd Paradox of Bike Racing is that it will be false while you are suffering.

i did tell Ryan on that last lap that you never know what's going to happen, so it's imperative he stay in it and of it, but that long climb was breaking people in a cruel way.
That is one shady looking bunch of dudes.
@Marc Yeah, you make good points. And I definitely had those "maybe I wussed out; I could've gone harder" thoughts afterwards. But then again, I always have those! 

I dunno. I've had the experience of annihilating myself in those moments pay off. But I've also had the experience of falling apart totally five minutes later and being passed by 30 guys who I dropped two climbs ago. 

I guess what I'm saying is, I think my goose was cooked, like it or not, so it was about limiting the damage. Maybe I'm wrong. Next time I'll do the other and see what happens. 

(BTW, you can quote and then just delete everything you don't want.)
I think the trick is to type a bit before the quote and then delete what you don't need like this
Old forum allowed me to highlight and "quote" selections from a post...new forum, "quotes" the whole passage regardless where I highlight. Grrrr---fuhnoying.

Although I only figured this out today...
.imageimage
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Having some trouble there, Tito?
I think Ed Nolan is too shy to post his race report, so I'm taking the liberty of copying the email he sent me earlier today. I hope he will forgive me:
Yes David it is true.

In case you have never done Pawling Mountain, it is brutal. It was my
first time. I decided on this race over the New Britain Crit (another
60+ event) since it was closer and I got a chance to sleep in. Just
before the race I bumped into William Doyle, who warned me to drink
lots of fluid. It started out fine with a nice warmup of 29 some
riders consisting of six 60+, 19, 55+, and 4 juniors 17-18. As we
got under way along the rolling preliminary 6 miles, one of the
juniors who thought we were going way too slow asked: "are we being
neutralized?" Most everyone knew that in about a mile the suffering
would begin. I had studied the profile and knew when it would become
vertical. I was ok and sitting comfortable in the peleton until half
way up the climb. I lost momentum and eventually was dropped. Not
much relief in the 3 miles of climbing. Once that was tackled I
caught back on with a junior that was also dropped and rode strongly
until the 12% gradient on the last climb of the first lap. I was
pretty knackered by then, but rode hard on the downhill until I caught
my junior friend. I was thinking of dropping out, but I just kept
moving the pedals and tackled the 2nd lap with much less enthusiasm.
Now, I just wanted to finish no matter what. With the 95 degree heat,
I drank all my fluid I had on board and was glad there was a neutral
water zone that I shower down and drank. I finished strong and did
better on the steep 12% grade the second time around. I had no idea
what place I came in. I was surprised to learn that I finished 4th in
my field and 2nd for the NYS championship. I was a case of just keep
moving the pedals until the end. I saw other Kissena guys that all
were suffering from the heat.

Frist time on the podium for me. Our presenter was awed with the
elder racers and said: "You guys are so inspiriing".

so that was my day.

Ed
@Jeffrey White

At this point I imagine Tito sitting in front of his computer making the Arnie Scream noise.

For all those not in the know: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aLR-8c11ms
Congrats Ed!
^amazing, Adam.

The sad thing is that I watched the WHOLE THING.