Training to Race: Faster, Stronger, Awesomer

Apr 11, 2013 at 04:25 PM

Hi Guys, im after some advice from you seasoned riders on getting back to race shape having been off the bike for a long time. Bottom line, im eager to race again but I really dont have any base to speak of. For the power gurus I was holding a steady CTL of over 100 in Aug/September and my best power profile numbers ive ever had, im now around 30 (and climbing) but am aware of the effects of building too fast.

Is racing already going to be damaging to my season or am I better off writing off the next 6 weeks and keeping it all below zone 4/threshold. Its worth noting that I didnt get enough races in last year and so im still a 5 so perhaps just getting out there and seeing how things feel is worth while.

Goal wise, I just want to race again, locally, prospect and central.

My thoughts are get in as much riding during the week as I can, a diet of sweet spot sessions, regular 2x20s and lots of endurance/tempo but no v02 work or anything <5 minutes for at least a 3 more weeks or so with maybe a long easy ride on the weekend.

Interested in your thoughts and opinions.

Thanks in advance, look forward to riding with you guys again soon.

A

eragot

Apr 11, 2013 at 04:39 PM

You can start with your plan of building a base. My experience in the past is that you can race without a base, but your performance will be very volatile. Best to build a base for about 6 weeks and then use racing to introduce the shorter harder efforts. Frankly, racing can be your sole source of shorter harder efforts if you want.
Otherwise, watch out for doing too much threshold and SST without adequate carbohydrate intake as those workouts deplete you quickly.

Craig Zolan

Apr 11, 2013 at 04:58 PM

I'm no guru, but it sounds like you've been riding for at least a couple of weeks if you've gotten your CTL to around 30, which means your base period might be another 4 weeks or so. The other thing to note is that the 5s races are done in about 45 mins so, like Eric said, they can be your sole source of shorter harder efforts. Given the duration, I don't think the 5s races would place too much load on you at this time.

eragot

Apr 11, 2013 at 05:04 PM

Agreed with Craig, but I wouldn't go and do a Cat 5 race and call it a day. Better to train. IMHO.

Rick Perner

Apr 11, 2013 at 05:13 PM

Starting on 4/20 there are four Saturdays in a row where there are races in Prospect Park that are only five laps long for Cat 5's

Craig Zolan

Apr 11, 2013 at 05:33 PM

eragot said:

Agreed with Craig, but I wouldn't go and do a Cat 5 race and call it a day.

Of course not, he has to go to Konditori afterwards.

In all seriousness, I can't imagine a few cat 5 races sprinkled into your training plan would do any harm at all.

Jules

Apr 11, 2013 at 06:12 PM

eragot said:

Agreed with Craig, but I wouldn't go and do a Cat 5 race and call it a day. Better to train. IMHO.

Do the race then go for a longer ride...

mperlberg

Apr 11, 2013 at 06:38 PM

or upgrade to cat 4 and do longer races.

Edwin Ortiz

Apr 11, 2013 at 06:57 PM

Im in the same boat as ashley, was off the bike all winter long and didnt start seriously training again until february. first race coming up this weekend and that little buffer time to train definitely helps me at least psychologically, i didnt want to be put in a situation where i feel pressure to perform (cat 5 or not).

Do the group rides with people stronger than you, that will help a lot since its a friendly environment and everyone is really supportive.

ashleyB

Apr 11, 2013 at 07:15 PM

@craig I have a few weeks behind me of fairly steady endurance and have slowly turned it up to some low tempo. Did my first 2x20 in 7 months yesterday and have noticed a drop in around 10% on ftp which is somewhat surprising, that said obviously my weight is up so w/kg wise its not a linear regression.

Sounds like I should just go ahead and race but get out there after and get some miles in. That said by the time im ready to turn the intensity up I should be able to upgrade with my races from last season.

Thanks all for the advice, See you guys out there.

Marc Bertucco

Apr 11, 2013 at 07:49 PM

eragot said:

You can start with your plan of building a base. My experience in the past is that you can race without a base, but your performance will be very volatile. Best to build a base for about 6 weeks and then use racing to introduce the shorter harder efforts. Frankly, racing can be your sole source of shorter harder efforts if you want.
Otherwise, watch out for doing too much threshold and SST without adequate carbohydrate intake as those workouts deplete you quickly.

Excuse me while I check the ice content of hell...did Ragot seriously just suggest someone do base miles?

Marc Bertucco

Apr 11, 2013 at 08:23 PM

Ashley, these are all pretty solid tips in response to your question.

I think what you want to avoid is letting your enthusiasm and muscle growth outpace that of your tendon and ligament strength and flexibility.

I don't know how long you've been off the bike exactly, or what that means to you (was your bike literally collecting dust for months and months, or were you able to ride it once or twice every couple of weeks), but you should also consider positional changes that may have developed as your body has de-trained itself and become less flexible.

Did you feel like you were riding someone else's bike? Then you might consider incorporating some stretching into your routine, until your body re-acclimates to your bike.

Also, doing 2 x 20s on one of your first rides back? That seems a bit tough. Are you going to race an open FBF race next? harhar. Seriously, though, If you were intent on testing your FTP, I would have gone 3 x 10s with full recovery in between.

ashleyB

Apr 11, 2013 at 09:04 PM

Good points, thanks Marc.

Some more background info;
I moved out to LA at the start of September and went from a pretty high volume and intensity week in week out to zero for about 3 weeks until I brought my bike out there. I did get out when I could, which was most weekends for several hours in the mountains. Was still pretty fit in early December then it all slipped. Moved back to NYC at the end of Jan.

Riding felt great, I never had any real issues with discomfort since the summer. Since, now im getting more miles in I have changed my position, ive raised my bars considerably and will only lower them back to where I was over some time in slow decrements. I am commuting to work everyday which granted is only 15, 20 minutes each direction but its something.

Riding duration roadmap:

Aug 50 hours
September 20 hours
October 22 hours
November 20 hours
December 2 hours
Jan <12 hours
Feb <8 hours
March <13 hours
April so far 13 hours

So I guess im not starting from nothing I just havnt had any structure or much volume.

Thanks again

eragot

Apr 11, 2013 at 09:40 PM

I was suggesting base as Ashley laid it out. Which, if you recall our conversation on our ride with JP, is just not traditional endurance level base training.

Jules

Apr 12, 2013 at 12:49 AM

@Ashley if all goes well with my knee I'll be in roughly the same boat a few weeks from now. I was smashing the pedals baby-seal style until the end of feb and I've done just about nothing since.

ashleyB

Apr 12, 2013 at 01:36 AM

Sorry to hear that Jules, heal up soon

Brendan Rigby

Apr 12, 2013 at 01:24 PM

i have zero knowledge about how to design a training regimen. but i say do a cat5 race because they are fun and will motivate your later training efforts. all training and no racing makes jack a dull boy!

Marc Bertucco

Apr 15, 2013 at 09:15 AM

Cross posted:

The Third Annual Criterium Workshop is just around the corner. So set up for the turn, put your inside leg up, nail the apex and put SUNDAY MAY 19 on your calendar.

In addition to previous year's favorites, this year features new bike handling skills and drills, meant to exaggerate the bike handling demands of criterium racing. I've also been promised prizes to hand out!

We'll meet on the Jersey side of the GWB, talk for about 15 minutes, ride to the Rockleigh criterium course, drill for about 1 hour, then riders are free to head back home or further north for more riding. It's a 3 hour day, bridge to bridge.

mugwump

Apr 15, 2013 at 01:03 PM

“What was more of a struggle was the bike racing aspect, being where you need to be when you need to be,” Dombrowski said. “The position and the fighting. That was the eye-opening thing, not just the physical challenges of the race, but the other side of it.”--Joe Dombrowski on his first season of euro pro racing.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/04/news/neo-pro-joe-dombrowski-to-miss-2013-giro-ditalia_282043

It's not the power, it's the position.

Wes Tillman

Apr 17, 2013 at 01:13 PM

I googled "cylcling puke intervals" as a joke last night and this article came up -

http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/training-fitness/dont-do-ever

I can't tell if Vaughters is serious or joking with some of these.

Patrick Jones

Apr 21, 2013 at 05:43 PM

Marc Bertucco said:
Patrick Jones said:
eragot said:
Nice job Patrick. You're strong for sure. Being able to hang without the pedals last week was great.
E
Patrick Jones said:

Rode about 77 miles today, sandwich in Nyack, soy chai at Bicycle Connection in Piermont, big hydrating at SB, then home. There was a not strong, but persistent part headwind, part crosswind today.

First ride with clips and they made me go so fast that there have been (completely unconfirmed) reports of riders several minutes behind me being pulled into my vortex.

Pat

I really appreciate that. Nonetheless, I've discovered quickly that I kind of hit a wall around 21 mph. It's hard for me to sustain much above that, at least when I'm riding alone. I've got my work cut out for me.
Ahhhh, spoken like a dude who hasn't done much (any?) racing. It's not about the speed you can maintain by yourself. It's about your power, your endurance, your overall fitness, your ability to go HARD when it counts, your ability to recover from hard efforts while going "medium hard" in the shelter of a pack. And anyway, 21 is your wall? Really, when? Always? In what conditions? What about tailwind? What about downhill? Stiff headwind? MPH, by itself, is just about the most irrelevant number on any cycling computer. I mean, did you go 21 mph for 77 miles? Then hot-damn, you're strong.

I'm moving this discussion over here since it's trending away from the group rides topic...

Anyway, yes Marc you're correct...no racing experience here. Hopefully I can start getting my ass up early to come to the park and sort some of this stuff out.

I definitely don't hold 21 mph for the whole ride. I was paying pretty good attention to my speed the whole time yesterday. I find that on the flat and level I maintain around 20 or 21 mph, but when I get even a little rise I fall back to 17 or 18. On ever so slight downhills but still mostly flat I do around 25. On the big hills (such as coming out of Piermont) I'm around 11 or 12 mph.

Pat

Brendan Rigby

Apr 21, 2013 at 05:50 PM

if you folks had to recommend just one book on the basics of training, what would it be? i won't have a power meter for a long time. i am not interested in altering my diet (currently, i only eat raw horse meat...the paleo-IKEAmeatball diet).

mperlberg

Apr 21, 2013 at 07:20 PM

@ Brendan - This helped me a lot:

http://www.amazon.com/Cyclists-Training-Bible-Joe-Friel/dp/1934030201

There are more practical guides out there, though.

eragot

Apr 21, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Brendan. I am still coming up with an idea for you. I can't recommend Friel too much though.

Brendan Rigby

Apr 21, 2013 at 10:20 PM

thanks!

@mperlberg what are some of the more practical guides? if practical means "doesn't assume you will spend 10 hours per week counting the number of angels on the head of a pin/calculating how many ounces of protein your handmade artisanal locavore hipster-knit fair trade diapercloth-coddled organic cheesewhiz contains" then i'm in. especially if it means the book does not expect that i will spend equal amounts of time planning my time on the bike as i do riding it.

i want The Joy of Cooking for bicycles. the Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide for road racing. I WANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW MAH LEGS WORK ON MAH BIKE AND HOW TO MAKE UM GO FASTER!

dstokes

Apr 21, 2013 at 10:53 PM

Well, I think you should consider "Training and Racing with a Power Meter" by Allen and Coggan, even though you don't think you will be getting a power meter. They still lay out the theoretical basis for training, which is useful to understand, and have a bunch of example workouts.

And the power meter is a good investment.

mugwump

Apr 21, 2013 at 11:22 PM

I'm not a friel fan. Too complicated, especially for a newer rider. I'm also skeptical of the "peaking" mentality for people who don't have at least a few full racing seasons under their belts, and I disagree with his advice to skip group rides or limit group rides unless the rider in question has lots of experience.

The LeMond book is where I think people should start before moving on to Friel.