Jun 15, 2013 at 03:23 PM
Holy hot fuck...that shit is so dangerous, so fucked up.
Training to Race: Faster, Stronger, Awesomer
Holy hot fuck...that shit is so dangerous, so fucked up.
Jun 15, 2013 at 05:54 PM
Jon Orcutt always used to refer to that as a "rubber skeleton" level bonk. Like all your bones just went soft. I've bonked pretty hard on some long winter rides, but I don't think I've ever gotten close to that.
Jun 15, 2013 at 06:16 PM
I don't think you can keep a bike upright like that...
Jun 15, 2013 at 06:19 PM
But if we're on the subject of sportsmanship, this one well... is it dusty in here?
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/columns/story?columnist=hays_graham&id=3372631
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/columns/story?columnist=hays_graham&id=3372631
Jun 15, 2013 at 08:18 PM
nice story Jules. thanks.
Jun 17, 2013 at 04:11 PM
re: Harlem crit
Took a look at my Strava numbers from the Garmin and holy crap, I was basically doing Ragot's "The Worst" morning intervals without any rest between them - HR stayed above 180 the entire time. Due to paranoia about crashing I kept losing the wheels in front of me during turns and had to accelerate hard out of corners (from 25 to 32+mph), which inevitably led to sliding out to the back to never see the main group again.
The takeaway from yesterday for me:
Took a look at my Strava numbers from the Garmin and holy crap, I was basically doing Ragot's "The Worst" morning intervals without any rest between them - HR stayed above 180 the entire time. Due to paranoia about crashing I kept losing the wheels in front of me during turns and had to accelerate hard out of corners (from 25 to 32+mph), which inevitably led to sliding out to the back to never see the main group again.
The takeaway from yesterday for me:
- Get much, much faster. The pack was moving at my "sprint" speeds the entire time - aka I'm embarrassingly slow.
- Try to stay cocooned in the pack, which requires learning to be more comfortable in a crit group which was vastly different from the park races.
- Corner better: Don't slow down and lose the wheel in front or else I'll pay for it by having to accelerate hard to catch back on
Jun 17, 2013 at 06:17 PM
+1 on the cornering. looking at the video i have (youtube is still "processing" it), i lost places every. single. turn.
+1 on the intensity. strava (with no HR or power meter, so it's basically...guessing based on my weight. and not accounting for the significant aero bonus of being in a crit pack) says i averaged 350 watts for the non-neutral laps. that's including the last corner, in which i was behind a crash and slowed from 30 to 17 mph and down to 13 by the time i crossed the finish, sitting up. average speed was 27.6 mph including that last flawed lap. without that lap, the averages were about the same. of course, i don't trust strava. those numbers put me at 5 watts/kg for ~30 min. which, if this chart is to be believed, makes every member of that cat 4 race more or less a cat 1. #ohstrava
i think the cornering issues i had were related to (what was for me) a high average speed and massive pack. i was timid.
live and learn!
Jun 21, 2013 at 02:26 AM
Version 3.0 of Golden Cheetah was released several days ago. I just installed and am getting used to it. It has integration with Training Peaks, Strava, Ride with GPS and one other I've never heard of. There are fields I didn't think were in v2.x such as TSS, NP and other standard metrics in TP and elsewhere. Also integrates with Withings scale.
The GUI is much more advanced but I have to get used to it. You can customize various aspects of it based on views. Interesting update. I haven't played with it long enough to determine how stable (or not) it is. There are some cool things and then some things I'm not so sure about - particularly some of the graphics and the GUI.
Jun 21, 2013 at 04:38 PM
So, Yacks' shilling aside, I'm reading different things about the Powercal - is the accuracy really within 1 or 2%? Realistically speaking, is this discrepancy important to my training - given that at the moment I have no power meter or HRM at all? I don't have the need to be a super nerd about this stuff - I just want to be more intentional about training.
Jun 21, 2013 at 04:46 PM
I'd be less concerned with accuracy and more concerned with consistency. That is does it give you consistent readings when doing intervals. And for me, for training, I will do all of my power based intervals on a trainer, where I can stare safely at numbers, and not be hindered or helped by wind, road conditions, weather etc. The big exception are sprint workouts where body mechanics is critical, and unable to be replicated locked into a trainer.
Jun 21, 2013 at 05:10 PM
yes, but even on a trainer, you need to regularly zero out your pm's offset or the consistency won't be there, either.Marc Bertucco said:I'd be less concerned with accuracy and more concerned with consistency. That is does it give you consistent readings when doing intervals. And for me, for training, I will do all of my power based intervals on a trainer, where I can stare safely at numbers, and not be hindered or helped by wind, road conditions, weather etc. The big exception are sprint workouts where body mechanics is critical, and unable to be replicated locked into a trainer.
There was a good article about this in the latest Velo. Essentially the author posits that in training, it's best to trangulate heart rate, power, and perceived exertion.
so if you've been going all by PE or RPE, adding heart rate can add a layer of understanding--provided you realize the limitations thereof. Adding faux power probably won't help much.
Jun 21, 2013 at 05:12 PM
I tend to agree here, although given only one metric I'd take heart rate, then power. The speed at which your HR drops after a brutal V02 effort really tells you a lot about your fitness & fatigue.mugwump said:so if you've been going all by PE or RPE, adding heart rate can add a layer of understanding--provided you realize the limitations thereof. Adding faux power probably won't help much.
Jun 21, 2013 at 06:27 PM
I'd give it an A for consistency. Accuracy can be way off. I've mentioned it before on the forum that I suspected it overstated my power numbers by a considerable margin. I just bought a PT wheel off of ebay and can now confirm the powercal is overstating my numbers. I haven't done a threshold test with the PT yet, but can tell from what I've done so far that the powercal is off for me.
I'll loan the powercal to you to try for a week (or 2). You'll need a computer capable to recording the data (garmin, cateye, joule, etc). My plan is to keep it and use it in conjunction with the PT training wheel. I'll calibrate the powercal with my actual power data and suspect it will then be a very good approximation of actual power for me when I'm not using the PT wheel.
I agree with all that has been said above about the value of HR, though I think the faux power has its place too. The thing that I liked about the faux power is the ability to understand my accumulated training stress (TSS) in Golden Cheetah or Strava or TP. You can do that with HR too, but I didn't educate myself about those methods (TRIMP seems to be the primary scoring system) and did the power route since it is the "language" everyone speaks now.
Jun 21, 2013 at 06:57 PM
Without doubt @Craig that is the best way to get started. There are now 2 generations of PowerTap out there and the older ones are just as bombproof as the newer ones - the only difference is the size & weight of the hub.
If you can score a cheap one on eBay or otherwise you can pair it with a HRM and you'll be off to the races...
Jun 21, 2013 at 08:24 PM
@Jules - the powercal really is the gateway drug to full blown power meters. I got hooked.
Jun 21, 2013 at 10:14 PM
Tito...the powercal is also an hr monitor...2 for 1 ! (and I've been seeing em for $80 on the internets). Look at a "Stages" crank based meter...they have undated their software and the meter is supposedly a good deal now. I think they go for about $600. I would just train hr. for a year. It takes about 20 minutes of warm up to prepare your heart for a heavy training session....If you have a windtrainer, an hr monitor and an appetite for pain....you can get really fit on about 4 hours a week. I would get the power cal....use it as an hr monitor and dip your foot in the power pool. A year from now there will be even more options out there for strain gauge type meters. An hr monitor and a set of 50 mm carbon tubulars for race day.....that is my advice. Carbon tubular wheelsets can be had for around $350 these days....thats what I paid for my Neuvations which have been rolling for almost 3 years now with one rear wheel truing. yacks
Jul 03, 2013 at 01:08 AM
are people still riding in prospect park early on weekday mornings?
what's the deal?
i want in!
Jul 03, 2013 at 02:16 AM
WDC where u been hoss?
Jul 03, 2013 at 02:21 AM
long process finding a different job, then working like crazy at the new job, all tryin' to make a name for myself, then moving and planning a MF wedding.
i done with all that foolishness though . . . need to bring biking/KCC homeboy-ing back into my life.
CANYOUHELPMEDOCTOR?!?!
Jul 03, 2013 at 02:29 AM
City Hall Marriage Bureau. In and out in a half an hour.WilliamDC said:long process finding a different job, then working like crazy at the new job, all tryin' to make a name for myself, then moving and planning a MF wedding.i done with all that foolishness though . . . need to bring biking/KCC homeboy-ing back into my life.CANYOUHELPMEDOCTOR?!?!
Jul 10, 2013 at 12:47 AM
Jul 10, 2013 at 04:46 PM
what's generally viewed as the longest acceptable rest period you can do without losing fitness?
Jul 10, 2013 at 05:13 PM
Four days.
But. . .
Get off your bike!
This is for everyone who's feeling tired, burned out, not interested. I've read a couple of posts here from people saying they're not that enthused. On Saturday, I rode with a group that included Misha and Tom Warren who pulled that incredible win at Floyd the other week. They were saying they're tired and will be training a little less. Everyone's got it.
We've been training since January (and others have been since earlier than that), racing since March. There are some who are going strong and doing great.
For me, I cleaned my bike the other day and instead of wanting to get on it and ride, despite it being 11pm, I figured I should just polish it and put it in the other room, wondered why I even had it.
That's not a good sign. So. . . I'm off the bike.
I love this sport, I love riding hard, love feeling my heart spike when someone tries(!) to pass me, or when I see them on the Manhattan Bridge while I'm on the train. I love the whistle, pushing off, clipping in at the start of a race, getting around someone who missed their clip. I love checking my brake calipers before a long ride and spinning my wheel while holding up my bike. I love cleaning my chain until it makes no noise at all in my living room, and then on the road it's as smooth as silk. I love hitting my lap button at the start of Alpine. I love digging deep when my head tells me I shouldn't, until my legs burn and I'm down in my drops cranking and my fight is against myself and I'm TTing on 9w and then there's the slightest downhill and it gets easier, so I push harder.
I love riding my bike.
I'm kind of sick of it right now.
I'm off my bike.
The loss of fitness, for me, won't be that great, especially compared to my continuing to ride my bike and just not wanting to. That's even worse. So, I'm taking some time off. Not much. Just a little time. A few days. A week. I'm going to walk, finish that model airplane, work on my website.
And then I'll be back. I'm up for the challenge of training for the end of the season. Still plenty of time ahead of me. I'll get back to base miles, sprints, recharging my aerobic engine. I won't have to train as hard as I did in February, and I'll want to be riding again.
Train the way that's best for you. Listen to your coach. Listen to your body. If you don't want to get on your bike, then don't. I'm going to come back strong, with my head in the game, loving the sport because I missed it.
Jul 10, 2013 at 05:25 PM
^ just awesome.
i heart bruce.
i heart bruce.
Jul 10, 2013 at 05:40 PM
I totally disagree. You'll barely even start losing plasma volume in 4 days. Realistically you can take a couple of weeks and not "lose" fitness; you'll be blocked and feel like shit for a few days when you come back to it but your performance won't really budge.Bruce van-Schalkwyk said:Four days.
Of course your CTL (or whatever measure you use to add up cumulative days of riding) will go down but by any measure at the levels we race a week or two is just fine.
Depending on how big a "not enough rest" hole you have dug yourself this season though it may take longer than two weeks to recover.
In my view burning out is like many other things that most people (myself included) seem to only learn through experience - to be put next to:
- trying a new food/nutrition strategy the day of a race
- trying a new mechanical change to your bike the day of or before your race
- putting too much emphasis on your "A" race
- increasing your volume & intensity too fast
Don't worry too much about it. Learning how to train is a process. Take a week or two and RELAX. Real fitness grows year on year.
Here is the ONE BIG SECRET TO TRAINING... listen close:
You don't actually become stronger by riding hard. It actually makes you weaker. Going hard and tearing your body down is just a signal to your body that you want more power. You become stronger when you rest. That is when it happens.
Short-change yourself on recovery and you are short-changing yourself on growth of more power.
Jul 10, 2013 at 07:44 PM
thanks for the insight.
bruce, that describes exactly how i've been feeling for the past week or so. the laps in the park aren't fun. last night at floyd, i just didn't have the killer instinct or desire to stay in it. let so many moves go by that it became impossible to catch back up. i think that's a sign that some time off would be good.
maybe i'll put on my gym shorts and sandals and gently cruise my commuter out to some errands. or better yet, a bar...
Jul 12, 2013 at 12:38 PM
On the subject of detraining, here's an abstract that suggests you've got MUCH LONGER than 4 days before this occurs. We're talking weeks...not days.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11474330
As far as burnout is concerned, it sounds like folks are discovering that this sport is just too damn hard to do it without a full tank of enthusiasm and excitement. And this to me is actually a really good reason to go into a season with some concrete objectives and racing goals. Some question the value of "peaking" for an event or period, but they usually come at it from a physiological point of view when making their objections known.
For me, the mental value of having these goals in mind when training is just as (maybe more) important than the actual physical peaking process.
Jul 12, 2013 at 03:41 PM
Marc,
I think you're overlooking the fact that the people who are writing about burnout are new to racing. It's hard to peak when you're in your first season. It's hard to know what you can do, what races you really want to do well at, and even what your body can take. THe only way to know your limits is to find them, and these guys have been doing that. And very well at it, I might add. Next year, they'll be stronger and wiser and will be able to spot signs of burnout sooner and will be starting to learn what races they want to do, what their strengths are, and how a season fits together.
Jul 12, 2013 at 03:46 PM
When I first joined the club, Marc and JP used to fight a lot more. I miss that.
Jul 12, 2013 at 04:22 PM
Jeff...this is for you:
JP, I'm not criticizing anyone on the club for suffering burn-out. I'm certainly not "overlooking" the fact that there are many new members to the club. I'm just pointing out the value of looking at the whole entirety of one's racing and training season, setting up goals and planning accordingly. I'm suggesting as these riders move forward in their racing and training, they start to think about these things.
Why do you have to first personally attack something I've said, and then at the end of your own comment, you say the same damn thing? It's maddening.