Last RR of the year, go for the field in which you think you have the best opportunity for success. Unless you and Adam want to really work together in the crit.

This race doesn't need team mates.  For GC you do nothing for 4 days except your best 16 minutes on day 1 TT and your best 12 minutes up App Gap on the 3rd day.  Jeff- there's nothing any team mate can do to help at those points, it is simply mano a mano.  Do the 36+.

http://www.road-results.com/?n=racers&sn=pred

Looks like Niall is in the 36+ group with you.

Just going by points on road-results.com, if Niall was the only 36+ person to request to be back in the 4/5 field, he would slot in just after Adam (so 10th and 11th respectively).

You guys can get into the nitty gritty of looking at each group's current top 10 ranked riders and figure out if podiums are more likely with the two of you working together in the 36+ field than if you guys tried to help Adam in the 4/5 field.

In the current field split, the 36+ field has less teams with 3 or more riders than the 4/5s.

I guess you also have to be realistic on how much you guys think you can help each other.

Personally I would race together as a team in the 4/5s because it is more fun to race with team mates even if you potentially face stiffer competition.  But I don't think anyone would begrudge you the chance at a podium in a somewhat less competitive field.


Edit: Adam just dropped a truth bomb.  Disregard everything I just wrote.

I also think both fields will be plenty hard. I experienced no significant differences for example when the cat 4/5 35+ masters were separated than the young guns during cross season. If anything, the older crew had more sandbaggers and hence those races were harder.

I do want to point something out to Adam though. If you are going into the crit within seconds of, say podium, then a teammate could be VERY helpful leading you out/keeping things tidy during the GC bonus second sprints.

But, yeah, on balance, unless you guys are pretty close on strength/fitness, what one can do for the other is limited throughout this race.

Jeff -- I'd agree with Adam here and say race the masters if that's how
you're leaning. Teammates are awesome, but won't be the difference maker
save for maybe the crit.

I did the masters field when they split it at 33 for KSR, and it's not a
bad choice. Do what's good for you and your goals!

Yes, the most decisive parts of the GC battle at GMSR are the TT and the two gap climbs, where I am of little help. But as Marc mentions I would also include the crit in that category. I may very well be useful there.

Two years ago, Konrad lost a full bottle early on in the App Gap stage and I gave him mine (scroll up for race report). It was a hot day and he said it probably saved his race. Not sure if it was hyperbole. Also, the day before, we had a plan for me to lead him into the top 10 for the circuit race sprint. It didn't work out, but it very well might have if so many people hadn't cheated by violating the yellow line rule before 500m to go. Teamwork can be decisive at GMSR in a lot of scenarios.

Curious where Niall comes down on this one.

Don't get me wrong, I'd *love* to have you both there -- I was just saying that I understand either way, while also trying to make myself feel a little better about the split in the process.

I haven't raced GMSR before but from looking at previous results and the course profile, the comments above make sense - i.e., there are probably only a small number of scenarios in which a group of three racing as a team can help each other (if we had six riders, that would probably be a different story...)

I'm 38 and was placed in the 36+ field. I was planning to make a decision based on the field sizes (more points available in a 50+ field) but they are both <50 starters.

I could be convinced either way

1spt15

hi ALL,
harry bolick, here (missing for KCC activities since last CX in dec 2014 due to progressive back issue &surgeries!) &i have race GMSR twice it is an AWESOME weekend if racing...i am 53& have often struggled to decide which group to ride in Master's or cat 4/5, 3/4 etc...My previous findings are that the younger cat's have more Power/less Prowess (ie. time in ITT are :30s to 1m faster); but that the Master's fields have 2-3 former Pro or superStrong Triathlon riders the basically crush the field &rest race for minor places 4-10. Nail if i were you would choose to race the cat field and use your Senior Prowess to cleverly race to a high or winning place in the cat field. 
Good Luck ALL! 
-harryB;-) 

Welcome back Harry.

Welcome back Harry!

Jeff you've been a domestique par excellence for years now. Take a big race, make it your own.

No excuses!

Still time to register...here are some other reasons why this is a fabulous weekend from the promoter. #swimmingholes

"This is the last email to try to entice you to register for the 2015 GMSR. We hope you can make it as we have everything in place for a fantastic long weekend of racing. We invite you to come to Vermont to wrap up your road season in a nice bow and enjoy our relaxed country vibe, swim in our many clean clear Mad River swimming holes (check out Warren Falls a top rated swimming spot) or our beautiful mountain lake (Blueberry Lake). Enjoy some of the worlds top rated beers including Lawson's Finest Liquidsand Heady Topper both brewed right in the area and rated 100% by the Beer Advocate. Visit our fantastic Waitsfield Farmers Market on Saturday either before or after your race for fresh food, veggies and crafts, or take the factory tour at Ben & Jerry's and get some freshly made ice-cream. There are so many fun things to do while you are not racing which will make your stay in the Mad River Valley into a great four-day vacation."

Anyone have thoughts on gearing for app gap?been running a 28 all year but wondering if a switch to 32 is in order. 

Adam Fabian said:

Anyone have thoughts on gearing for app gap?been running a 28 all year but wondering if a switch to 32 is in order. 

I went with a 30+ tooth gear for App Gap last year and loved it. Big difference is not so much on the out of the saddle power climbing bits. That shit is still going to hurt no matter what gear you have. BUT, the big difference in having a "dinner plate" on climbs like that is that there are 3 or so spots in the final 3k where the road "flattens" a bit and it actually sort of feels like recovery when you spin that little gear.

That was my thinking. I also have a compact up front fwiw. That said, I
raced KSR and every other hilly race this year with a 28.

Compact for me too. You'll still have access to the 28-ish if you race with the 32, no? Don't go running out to buy a new cassette if you don't already have, but I see no reason not to go with the dinner plate option if you have it.

Yeah, I don't currently have a 30+, which was why I was curious.

How bad is App Gap compared to Devils Kitchen?

Don't you need a longer cage derailleur to run anything larger than a 28?

Not as bad. As I recall Devil's Kitchen was unrelenting. Just steep and straight up the mountain. App Gap, is a more traditional climb the switches back and forth, with a few spots that level off for a second or two. The last kilometer, however, will feel similar to Devil's Kitchen, it's nutso.

If it helps, think of it as a longer "Little Tor."

GMSR racers: don't know what your travel plans are, but I'm planning on pre-riding the TT course on THURSDAY. Let me know if you want to join, we can coordinate a morning time to ride.

Looks like Jeff and Niall in the 4/5 36+. All, check out those start times and get their early.

http://www.gmsr.info/tt_start_times.php

Depending on where you are staying a ride over to the race might be enough for your warm-up, but in years past they've also had trainers set up near the start. This is a short 18-ish minute effort, that starts with a climb. You need to be ready to GO. But not too hard. You podium contenders are going to especially have nice warmed up legs, and be conscious that it is VERY EASY to OVERCOOK yourself on the opening mile or so which climbs. You don't want to set a 1 minute power record and then have nothing for the next 16, right?

Okay kids, pre-rode the ITT course this morning. Others from other teams were out too. Going the re-emhpasize having plenty of gas in the tank after the  opening climb.

With 7k to go, the road starts to level and after that, you gotta get in the most aero position that you can still generate good watts. From here on out, those with more aero equipment, will truly benefit.

There is some additional climbing, but it's mostly rolling and open to wind.

An important note about the last 1k. You will hit a very fast/short/steep descent that is followed immediately by a sharp rise. Gearing is going to be important here. The temptation is to keep it in the big meat, but if you do, you will coast up the other side a bit, but it's STEEP and gravity will kick your ass. You've got to have good legs and good gearing to motor that last .75k; it's work.

For fans (racers you triple check your actual start times pls!) here are tomorrow's ITT start times:

Jill Sink 11:05:00
Helen Wyman 12:36:00
Marc Bertucco 12:57:30
Adam Fabian 1:20:30
Jeff White 1:40:00
Niall Smart 1:43:00

Good luck to all!

4spt15

Hello ALL KCC GMSR's,
BEST of LUCK &STRONG RACING! 

...please a) do NOT goOUT too fast in initial climb, b) build your strengths &power, POWER, POWER, over top of hill &rolling flats, c) crush it in last KM steep descent&bitter climb!!!! 

Allée Kissena's!!!!

-harryB&co;-) 

Beautiful, perfect day out today in the Mad River Valley. 68 degrees, sunny, cool breeze when riding.

Saw Adam, Jeff and Jill this morning (also ex KCC Tony Settle), all are in good spirits, except Jill looked like she was going to be sick (with nerves). She's going off in 1 minute and she's going to be great. As are the rest of the KCC crew.

Sick winning time from a Canadian Junior Nat team dude was 13:53. SICK. Most of our guys will be in the 16:00-17:00 range for the 6 mile ITT.

Stay tuned!

Results link:

http://velocityresults.com/results/585

Ryan Johnston and Konrad of Sommerville both in the top 10 of the 3s.

Looks like Jill put in a proper time, just a few measly seconds out of top 10.  Great job!

Love that Ryan can keep up with Konrad.  If Ryan can be competitive with a baby at home, it gives me hope...