Yesterday I attended The Prospect Park Road Sharing Task Force meeting as the Kissena Cycling Club Representative. Below is a brief report. The meeting was very cordial and professional. Representatives were there for a number of groups, including Brooklyn Track Club, Trans Alt, DOT, FIDO, children's groups, the parks department, and NYPD. All groups presented about their key issues and goals for the park and lane sharing. An overarching theme seemed to be creating a roadway where users are predictable. I presented about our safety record and our desire to keep the roadway a viable space for competitive racing and training. I spoke of our pro-active efforts to educate and improve usage. This was very well received. Some potential ideas were mentioned. Stopping at traffic lights was not well received by anyone, gratefully. Even the dog walkers and parents group. Surprisingly, or maybe not, there was a strong anti-car sentiment and the idea of banning cars all together was well received by everyone except the DOT folks who were very cautious. At the end of the meeting I stayed around and chatted for a bit. Many groups expressed how thankful they were that we were there to be part of the conversation - so it doesn't turn towards "lycra bashing." The DOT and others commended us (or Charlie) on a job well done promoting safe races. There are more meetings to come. I wrote the dates down at home but don't have them on me. They asked that we have a consistent representative throughout. Charlie and I can work out who is going to take it from here on out. I'm pretty sure I can make the rest of the meetings if need be. Pretty interesting stuff. Best, Michael

Excellent. Thanks for representing Kissena and for the report.

Wow great. Were any other cyclists or clubs/teams present? I think it's incredibly valuable that you attended and earnestly communicated with all the various interest groups. In addition to the traffic light stopping fear, I worry that a small but impassioned group would organize to stop racing at PP, since other promoters don't always have as many marshals or do as conscientious of a job as Charlie. And there's always a couple of incidents every year where some clueless person gets too close to the pack and freaks out, or a near-crash sends someone into the joggers' lane that scares the pedestrians.

That said, when I'm training at the park and a light is red, if there are baby strollers or others that have been waiting for a while and I'm far enough away to slow down, I generally try to let them cross. B/c I'm all polite and shit.

Thanks for representation, Mike. Big ups.

Michael,

Thanks for this report, and thanks for representing us. I was in a car back from Parsippany NJ when this meeting was happening, and I could think of quite a few other places I would have rather have been.

It is extremely important that we participate in these sorts of task forces and working groups, to ensure racing continues to be available to us in the parks, but also that it remains a place where we can safely ride for other reasons. It is also important that when we are in the park we represent Kissena well. Remember we should be riding the right way on all park roads, being courteous to all park users. It reflects on all of us, and hopefully shows other park users that we are there to share the park, not treat it like we own it.

I'm glad to hear we're being represented at these kinds of meetings. Great job to Mike and all who made sure we had someone there.

How did we as a club hear about this task force? I only ask because this is the first I've heard of it and I think this is exactly the kind of community engagement we as a club should strive for. Does cycling advocacy/activism and community relations warrant a sticky thread? Just tossing it out there.

Again, thanks to those who were on top of this!

I'll try to answer some questions:

We were the only cycling club represented. TransAlt was there pushing the commuter / recreational user aspect. Jackrabbit Sports owner was there talking about runners / tri-athletes, recreational cyclists etc.

The meeting was not a public meeting, it was a task force with invited members. Someone invited us apparently. I guess by April we'll hopefully present a set of recommendations at a public meeting regarding park road sharing and safety.

I spoke with a few other people (Prospect Park Alliance) you expressed interest in having Kissena present at their meetings throughout the year.

Hope that helps. I'll update after the next meeting more.

Mike

Michael, &DAn,
thanks. key to safety in ppk is "restripping," well posted "signage," and graphic "rules" for pedestrians, joggers, cyclists, etc...(skate board, bmx, roller blades). the park in poorly stripped/lined and truly needs updating to reflect the way in which users actually do utilize the perimeter roadway. ie. joggers are in bike lane, bikers are in vehicle lane, vehicles exceed speed limit and DO NOT share road with responsible cyclists, & plenty cyclists travel in "WRONG" direction when they could take BIKE LANES outside park on roadways. We need to list in bullet point form a series of signage & line marking adjustments which could easily be implemented by spring season. NOW is the time folks!
-harry

keep the suggestions coming. i'll try to make a poll once I have some ideas of improvements folks would like to see.

These are pretty decent:

http://www.kensingtonprospect.com/health-fitness/prospect-park-drive-safety-petition

Similarly:

http://www.petitiononline.com/prospect/petition.html

I'm interested in what Mike said about the reception toward a car ban. "There was a strong anti-car sentiment and the idea of banning cars all together was well received by everyone except the DOT folks who were very cautious."

I've always been baffled by the idea that we have to have cars in the parks. They're parks. They're supposed be a sanctuary, except for four hours each day they turn aggro. Is a car ban something that can be pursued?

@ Ryan - I think if the sentiment goes towards a car ban we'd be wise to subtly put our weight behind it. But as newcomers to the committee, it think it is decidedly unwise to come out swinging in favor of a car ban.

What's crazy to me about cars in PP, that I didn't appreciate until I did a workout there after our music video shoot, was that the portion of the road on which they allow cars, there is a really wide two-way street that runs parallel to it.

In CP, the argument against banning cars has always come, most strongly from the Taxi and Limousine folks who jabber on and on about loss of revenue and traffic and blah, blah, blah. I just don't see that argument working in PP. There is no way that taking the PP road is faster or more efficient than the parallel road outside of the park.

In any case, Robert Moses already fucked everything up by putting roads and highways everywhere in this city, I just wish we could at least have our parks care free.

Auto speed limit, stop light, and park-hours enforcement would be a huge plus. For whatever reason, drivers have become under the impression that if they put their hazard lights on, they can drive through the park at any hour, at any speed, and can ignore traffic signals. If there were repercussions for this behavior it would probably change.

@Marc and Ryan: Imagine if the parks had been car-free since they were opened and somebody came along proposing that they be opened to vehicular traffic during peak exercise hours in order to reduce traffic in surrounding neighborhoods and provide additional revenue to the taxi and limousine industry. Yeah.

For Central Park, there are a contingent of cyclists who actually argue that having some car hours are actually a benefit to cyclists. The logic is that the presence of cars does a few things for cyclists. One is they bring the DoT into the park to maintain the roads. The other is that they keep pedestrians, runners, dog-walkers, cyclists going the wrong way, etc, alert.

Both arguments I can see some merit to. While the Central Park Conservancy seems to do much of the park management, I don't know if they'd be able to (have the power or resources) patch, repave, and plow. I could see various constituencies arguing that the roads in the parks don't need to be maintained as much or as well if cars aren't driving on them. I'm not sympathetic to their arguments but probably the only people who would stand up in opposition are cyclists.

As for keeping park users alert, this is something that could be overcome, but, as with people parking, unloading, walking their carts, hanging out in the bike lane, education will take years. I don't understand how any sane person thinks it's a good idea to walk on the right curb by the blind turn around the Harlem Meer pool, but I see people doing it all the time. I don't know how peds can see me coming and cross the park drive anyway, but it happens all the time. I don't know why runners continue to use the bike lane from 59th to 72nd streets, when the park is open to traffic. When I was riding, slowly, with my kid on the back of my bike in this bike lane, I had runners tell me I shouldn't be there. I'm pissed that the NYRR isn't leaned on to do something about this.

I don't understand Prospect nearly as well as I understand Central. That whole "driving through the park to get to the parking lot" business is weird. If the parking lot is to stay, which is probably a bad idea, a new entrance/exit should be created where they cross at one point in a right angle to the park drive in and out.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Posted By: Marc BertuccoIn any case, Robert Moses already fucked everything up by putting roads and highways everywhere in this city, I just wish we could at least have our parks care free.

I second that. The main parts of our large cities should be car free. It won't happen in my lifetime, I know, but it seems inevitable.

I just got an email from the Prospect Park Alliance announcing some orange barrels on the West park drive lined-up to corral cyclists, slow us down in advance of pedestrian crosswalks. And, according to this communique, there will be roving enforcement of crosswalks by NYPD. Sounds bad... I guess I'll see this in action when I ride this evening.

I wonder if there will be roving enforcement of pedestrians' use of crosswalks. Riiight.

Ugh, the last thing we need is for the one decent training stretch that's not in New Jersey to be compromised. Let us know what you see tonight, Normanzo.

FYI

We need your voice for a safer Prospect Park! On Wednesday night, The Prospect Park Alliance is holding a meeting to discuss how Prospect Park's Loop Drive can work better for all users. Please join Transportation Alternatives at this meeting and help us usher in more space for walking and biking in this important public park.

WHAT: Prospect Park Road Sharing Taskforce meeting
WHERE: Prospect Park Picnic House, located near the 3rd Street entrance to the Park
WHEN: Wednesday, November 16th, 6 pm

The meeting will cover strategies for better interactions between bicyclists and pedestrians and ways to provide more space for non-motorized travel on the Loop Drive. It will be important to have your voice in the room as we discuss the potential for more car-free space in Prospect Park. I hope to see you on Wednesday night. Thank you for your tireless dedication to making our city a more livable place!

I assume Perlberg is attending?

Yeah, it's tough bc while I see cyclists doing dumb shit every time i ride in the park (or anywhere), a lot of them aren't "racers". And like has been mentioned, if you wanna crack down on dangerous activity, it needs to be across the board. From pedestrians to drivers. People step out in front of cyclists all the time, but they would never do that to a car. I guess the increasing popularity of cycling, and the resentment of the bike lanes is still high, and it's going to take a while for the learning curve to reach everyone. If ever. I mean, it sucks that lady got hit (nomatter who's fault it was), but tens of thousands of people are killed and injured by automobiles every year and everyone just accepts it as "part of our culture".

The eternal question persists: why are people stoopid?!?!?

I will be there on the 16th as a member of the task force. If anyone wants to attend as members of the public, as responsible cyclists, bike commuters, park users, etc. I encourage you to attend. The last thing we need is to be drowned out by anti-cyclist folks.

For what its worth, the task force has been very cordial and not anti-cyclist at all. I will give a more thorough report back on our discussions after the public meeting.

I would like to suggest that we be thoughtful and consider very carefully how many should attend, and what they should say.

I know that Mike has been a presence - if others show I think it's important that if they are going to represent themselves as Kissenas they should be on the same page as the rest of the club in terms of key issues and talking points so as not to contradict and make us look less organized.

A pre-meeting meeting seems crucial.

I strongly second Ryan's suggestion of a pre-meeting!

Very important to clarify our talking points, make sure we have coherent and consistent responses to the expected complaints, etc.

Tomorrow evening?

Ok --I rode in the park tonight-- the barrels start on the far right toward the last 1/3 of the downhill. They swerve in gently to align with the center white/dashed line about 30-40 yards from the crosswalk at the bottom. Also at about 30-40 yards from the crosswalk, barrels on the left are lined-up along the right-most pedestrian/bike lane. Together these two lines of barrels form a cattle shoot to guide cyclists through in the left traffic lane.

This contraption did not impede my training this evening. With so few people out after 9pm, they would have to set a Sasquatch out at the bottom of the hill to interrupt a ride.

However, the barrels will probably force a much more cautious (and slow) approach for cyclists during moderate and heavy park usage hours, and therefore make training less enjoyable.

Here are a few of my expectations/concerns about the setup:

- The walls of barrels --at more than 3ft high on left and right-- will make it much harder to see small children and animals waiting to cross and/or in the processing of crossing;

- Slotting all cyclists and, I presume, rollerbladers into one walled lane is going to increase the volatility of that area. This will be especially nasty when cyclists brake hard to slow/stop for pedestrians in the crosswalk with other cyclists speeding in behind. Thus, this crosswalk will require extreme slowing anytime there are pedestrians at or approaching it (especially if fines are going to be written).

- The walls of barrels may have the unintended consequence of blocking pedestrians' view of cyclists approaching at high-speed, and make it even more difficult to judge the timing of the cyclists arrival at the impact zone. Together with the cyclists having a compromised view, it seems a recipe for increased accidents.

Cycled "the chute" this morning, and agree with Norm. While it quite visibly turned pedestrians away from the center of the chute, I ride in MORTAL TERROR of some 3 year old on a razor scooter shooting out from location(s) unseen

Few thoughts:

physical obstacles on the fastest part of the loop do not seem safe
there is a huge temptation for all concerned to dream up new "rules" for engagement in the park, but the reality is any rule (new or old) needs to be enforced - if we can agree to this, then even a moderate uptick in enforcement of the existing rules would be beneficial. Should we start the campaign there?

First better enforce current rules
Second extend current rules

J

Here's an interesting perspective on the matter from Brooklyn Spoke:

http://brooklynspoke.com/2011/11/14/prospect-park-safety/

I would like to add that the park loop is not configured for recreational use. It is currently configured as an automotive traffic thoroughfare. This conflicts with its actual use, and should be remedied. I believe this incongruity to be a root cause of the park's safety issues.

I would also like to add that there must be experts out there who are literally the best in the world at solving these types of problems. Certainly they could devise a much better system for the loop drive that maximizes its enjoyment and utility for all park users. Why not give them a call? This is New York, and I think it's worthy of the best in the world.

It's very easy to allow passions to take over this "debate," but perhaps we can frame this as a problem that we should solve by applying some careful thought and ingenuity.

Jeff W., completely agree. There must be experts who have dealt with these kinds of issues before. I also agree with your point about this being a 'drive'. It was created for cars. I'd be willing to bet that in the 1980s there weren't rec lanes at all.

New York has an incredibly wide array of personalities. I'm guessing the guy that ran over the park volunteer would fall into the category of "I'm better than you so get out of my way!" douchebag (many varieties of this character, this will rival types of mud encountered in cyclocross). Those barrels at the bottom of the hill will do nothing more than narrow his pathway making it even more likely that he/she will run smack right into whatever is there. Anyone try to ride Sunday while the citi-tri was happening? Now that was a disaster. Guys time trialing on Cervelo P4/Di2 rigs going into rec lanes to avoid crossing pedestrians whilst Tina learns to ride her teensy wobbly glittered and streamered Barbie Bike.

The situation is very messy. Mike, I think presenting a unified front without a lot of differing opinions will be very helpful. Perhaps you could post what you plan to present and how many of us you'd like to be there in support. We don't all have to speak.

How do we know who is a Kissena\there to support ?

Unless you all wear a jersey , folks not speaking are just bodies, you don't really know what their view is \ if they are pro cyclist, anti cyclist, etc.

I think TA has supporters that attend a public meeting all have sticky notes of the same color on their shirts or something like that.

I would imagine that we all align fairly closely with the views of Trans Alt. I would be fine with wearing their sticker. In fact, I did at the hearing for the proposed shutdown of the PPW bike lane.

TA stickers would be good. We should not advertise ourselves as Kissena under any circumstances.

It is OK to be from Kissena. We are a responsible group of park users who promote the safest cycling races in the city.

Our main goal at these meetings is to keep Prospect Park a viable place to train and race as cyclists. We want to do it safely and responsibly. We want to avoid any type of Central Park enforcement of rules that focuses only on ticketing / stopping responsible cyclists while ignoring other dangerous park use (riding backwards, jaywalking, etc.) We do have to be reasonable and understanding that Saturday at noon during July is not an ideal time to train and may have to give some things up during those time periods.

Unfortunately, transportation alternatives is not necessarily a perfect ally. At the last meeting, they were suggesting building these "ramps" which are basically mellow speed bumps to promote awareness and slowing. What a terrible idea. Anyway, they don't think about what the park is like for racers moving at 40+ mph.

On the plus side, in general, there is movement towards eliminating some car traffic (down to 1 lane) from the park. What a great idea. If we can focus our comments on the dangerousness of cars and how much safer we'd be with one lane of traffic, that would certainly be a good unifying message.

I will be at the meeting. Anyone who is there from Kissena check in with me if you are curious about what to say from the Kissena perspective. As citizens, you can obviously free to speak your mind.

I have to go to bed. I will post more in the morning.