Kissena Forum Archive

2012 Spring Series Park Racing

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tremendous riding by all three squads this sunday; chapeau!

the 1/2/3 crew raced like badasses! very little blood to my brain the whole time, so i missed many details, but i do know that we had a kissena off the front in just about every move and on just about every lap. even better, we had kissena's riding NEAR the front while that was happening, blocking and preparing to counter attack. tremendous team riding - definitely one of our best races as a group since i've been around.

i'll take michael's cue and fill in what happened behind him on the last two laps. i was really really hurting near the end as the effort of all my attacks/bridges/blocks caught up to me. when this happens (TAKE NOTE HERE) i always make a point of communicating it to my team mates and telling them to ORDER ME AROUND because i don't have any sense left. on the downhill of the second to last lap, i find JP and tell him "i have one match left! what should i do!" he tells me to attack on the hill. I say i will but i know i will get caught and dropped. once we hit the flat and i see michael (alone, i think) i understand what JP means. if michael is going to make it to the finish, he'll need help, and a hard attack at the hill might draw out just enough guys to get across and fuel the break.

JP helps me get to the front and at the foot of the hill, he moves over, lets me out and i launch. someone else goes at the same time, and dioslaki comes around and for about 40 seconds we are tear-assing up the hill until i suddenly and completely crumble and pull over. most of the field passes me and a barely make it back on, but once i do (on the west side of the park) i can see a group of five with a nice gap over the field.

i try to keep the gas on in the final 2k, but it's hopeless (i am NOT a park sprinter!) and eric and i sit up and roll in behind the group. apparently, eric could see the finish and he exclaimed "Nice! we get breakfast!" as mike crossed the line.

awesome awesome work, dudes!
I was very frustrated with my race, but I learned a very valuable lesson.

I came in feeling like complete shit, so I was surprised I had the legs/motivation to get into the three-man bridge group behind the two man break that was ahead, with three to go. It was actually me and a Hudson guy who bridged up to the Mexico-New York rider who eventually won. We made it to the guy without too much difficulty and we immediately began working quite well. The fact that it was relatively easy to bridge to the first guy, and also because the Hudson guy really seemed to be on the ropes, made me think I was the strongest of the three. This was not the case. The Mexico-New York guy was much stronger, and ended up winning the race.

Here is why I was so frustrated with how I raced:

When we hit the uphill, the Mex-NY guy attacked HARD and I couldn't hold his wheel up the hill. The leading group of 2 was within sight farther up the hill. When he gapped me, I looked back and saw the Hudson guy was gone and what I thought was the front of the field charging right up my ass, with Jeff Condon right on the front. I immediately thought to myself, "Ouch, my own guy!" and sat up, thinking my day was over -- I didn't have another good move, and I didn't feel excited about a sprint.

But my lactic acid soaked eyes deceived me. It wasn't the front of the field. It was people attacking the field. If I had kept my cool and kept up the power after Mex-NY charged off, I almost certainly could have gotten up to the break with these guys. Big lesson learned.
Spring Series

Central Park

Forecast:
http://www.wunderground.com/US/NY/Central_Park.html

Let's own the race again!

I just registered.
70% chance of rain and I'm putting my little boy pants on
sorry guys
Jules, I think you may have misread -

The chance of precipitation is listed as zero, while the humidity is listed as 72 %. It'll just be gray with a coldish morning dew.

If the forecast changes in favor of rain, I will bump my registration for a future race with better weather.
Then I'm more than likely to show - sorry about the bad reading skilz!
Im in for the 5's
Jules. You would have been there in the rain too. Don't deny your studliness. Too much man for you to be at home with the kids when there's throwdown two blocks away in the park.
Just saw the video for the finish for the 5's, for what its worth I got 12th.
Great, my race report didn't make it... Computer freeze during slumber mode...
Masters...Axis & Deno's buddy up for attacks...I tried to stay with all of them, but missed one on the climb. Deno's and Axis then go to front and deploy parachute. Chasing all the attacks is great training though. That's all i gots....yack
First off, I would like to start this post with the following cipher: Jules, Vanilla Notification.

Congratulations all around on some great team racing across all categories. I'm glad there is some critical thinking going on in these race reports, and the sharing is great. Seeing the race, reading the race through more lenses helps ensure that we will only get better and better.

I have to say, I feel like we as a club let one of our new guys, Ashley, down a bit. I really don't know how he got in front of his field's pace vehicle, or how he was chugging alongside and past the 1/2/3 field in the jogger's lane at one point, but dude's clearly got an engine, and with our collective experience, we should be better mentors (mental note to self, be a better mentor, Marc). I mean, if he was rocking off the front of the 5 field, the pace vehicle should have sped up, right? Because now he's the front of his field. But if he launched his moves during one of the always confusing and frustrating times when fields were crossing/passing each other, then we should have given him the "put it in neutral" sign or something. It sounds like there was plenty of in-race chatter, but those messages have to be short and sweet, because our brains don't work as well with power being diverted from grey matter to our rippling red muscle fibers.

Early on in the 1/2/3 race, for example, when JP was dangling off the front with one other. I was there patrolling the front with a few other Kissena's including Joe and WIlliam. Two strong riders went for the bridge with an attack through the bottom of the descent-pinch-point-left-handed sweeper. I saw Joe gearing up to go after the bridgers, but I shouted, "no" in his general direction. He got the message, and reholstered. I wanted those two strong guys to get across clean, because then the move was 4 strong riders, with one Kissena. Those are good odds for a strong breakaway that could, at a minimum stay away long enough to make the field work, while Kissena continues to ride herd at the front, waiting for the counter. Unfortunately, a few other guys had the same idea, attacking hard just a second or two later, WIlliam was on their wheel and then it was the whole field in full-on chase mode. Alas, this is what happens, but at least we weren't the team that doomed our own breakaway guy.
Posted By: Christian Refakis
With the recent Central Park crashes and sketchy riding in mind, I began my race a little timid. I clipped in late off the line, pinning myself to the back. This was unfortunate as I knew practically our whole team began the race at the front. Safe to say though, as the race progressed, I got meaner. Spending about 3 laps fighting for the front
I feel like Christian learned a good lesson and I want to make sure others didn't miss out on his point made in the quote above. By sharpening your start-line focus, lining up at or near the front from the get-go, you can save yourself 3 laps of hard work, which ultimately will just get you back to the place you could have been from the beginning of the race. I think all of us on Sunday could have used 3 "less hard" laps in our race for a little recovery, no?

Or at least if all your laps are going to be hard, they should be hard for a reason like, "I'm attacking your slow-ass, right now, so get on, or eat my dust." Or "That's right muhtha-bruhtha, you can try to chase my teammate down with all your watts, but I'm going to be right here on your wheel waiting for you to drown in a pool of lactic acid. And then I will counter-attack and you will wish you had teammates as awesome as I to go swimming with me."

If you are really nervous about sketchy riders, feel free to designate yourself, the "early suicide attack" dude and hammer at or off the front. Much safer than hanging out at the back of the pack and you get bonus points for making others work hard to chase you while your teammates sit and wait to counter attack.

to be continued...
Jules, Vanilla Notification part II
Posted By: Christian RefakisI was probably fifth wheel (of the rest) as we hit the 100 meter mark on the last lap when I jumped. I was ahead of everyone coming over the hill, but got beat by a few guys including John M with about 15 meters to go. I think I should have jumped a little later and used one of the other guys as a leadout, but rookie me, I got so excited at the prospect of actually being best of the rest, I just went for it. Lesson learned for next time. Looking forward to hearing John M's recollection of the finish.
Me confusey...it kind of sounds like there wasn't a focused effort on TEAM sprinting after the breakaway was clearly going to stay away. I mean, you still got awesome results as a team, but it would have been even more awesome if the team that helped set up and block for the move that won, had that kind of focus as they were preparing for their own finishing sprint. It's the whipped cream and cherry on top of a race-winning Sundae. (Get it? Sundae, our race was on a Sunday!?...that's cleverness you just can't buy folks).
Posted By: Jeff Condon
From what I heard Christian and John were controlling the field so they wouldn't bridge. Thanks for that.
And this is what is awesome about team racing. Great job! It sounds like there are going to be two must-have teams in any winning break this year. Kissena and Hudson. This symbiotic and ultimately homicide-ic relationship could be very important as the season progresses. Hopefully Hudson boys have noticed this early season trend too and will be quick to work with Kissena, until you have to go at each other in the closing kilometers of the race, of course. Hunger Games, yo.
Posted By: Jeff CondonWith about 3 1/2 laps to go Whitey took a flyer from the pack and two guys (I think) jumped in with him and they got some distance as they tried to bridge. I moved up the front to cover any people who tried to chase down who tried to join them.
Same scene, different perspective
Posted By: Jeffrey WhiteThe leading group of 2 was within sight farther up the hill. When he gapped me, I looked back and saw the Hudson guy was gone and what I thought was the front of the field charging right up my ass, with Jeff Condon right on the front. I immediately thought to myself, "Ouch, my own guy!" and sat up, thinking my day was over
Kissena's don't chase each other down. We bridge, we counter (which sometimes happens from a few 20 meters back, so to the untrained eye, it could look like a "chase"), we cover, but we never chase each other down. Everyone on the team gets their shots at glory.

Anyway, awesome job everyone, looking forward to more of the same in weeks to come!
Im going to try and get in Central Park tomorrow for a look around and leg opener from about 730 if anyones Interested.

Also, on the morning of the 24th, anyone riding up from Brooklyn?
$30 for 24 miles - you're kidding, right?
I'll try for a long ride instead.
Yeah, I'm taking Saturday off. I haven't been getting enough sleep so I'm going to just do a 2-3 hour workout in Brooklyn. Can't justify the 4:45AM wake up for that cost and such a short race.
I trust the 4's won't let Hudson have all the fun.
I'm in, provided I can get enough sleep tonight.
I'm passing on this one, flying in from LA late Friday night so it'll be too early for me. Up for a hard ride over the weekend if anyone's game.
1/2/3 Race Report: Sagging Along

From the first pedal strokes south on Riverside drive, then down the West Side bike path, I knew I was going to be in trouble. Cranking along to make up time for leaving the apartment late, I was sure I was cranking out 270-330 watts. A quick glance down at my power meter revealed that I was roughly 100 watts optimistic. Crud. This is going to be a long, hard day. No matter, I'm up, I'm out, I'm just going to do my best. So, now that you've decided to race, and you don't have Michael Perlberg legs, what do you do?

At the start, I check in with JP, and he suggests, given my current state of fitness, that I patrol the back, making sure our stronger teammates, aren't hiding out back with me. Sounds good, right? The muscles have atrophied, but the racing brain is still there.

And it's a good thing too. Because after the climb, JP off the front with the early attack, the brain cells kick back in. JP gave me a "hall pass" this race, and that was nice, but nice is not racing. And I didn't pay $35 (+$4 in ATM fees) to hide at the back of a race. After the climb, I was still safely buried in the field. I kept my fingers crossed that the field would slow and bunch just past the first crosswalk on the top of the course. The field would drift right towards the apex, briefly opening room on the left for a burst of speed to the front. Bam. Text book, slot in near the front, Kissena's strong men are already there doing their job. Better late than never.

The rest of the race I was the team's yo-yo man. Sagging back on the climb, working my way up to the front on the flats, sling-shotting off of sweepers on the outside line, where-ever I could. With 4 to go, I was in fair position about 25 guys from the front, but I hear one of our team's strongman, Joe Mueller, shouting something about getting to the front. Crap. Okay. Dude wants a ride to the front. Power on, it's windy on the right, the front 10 or so riders are single file, which means the pace is up. Cranking, cranking, cranking. I've got plenty of room to move on the right (which is definite evidence that things were fast at the front). William sees me come up on his right and backs off the pedals enough to let me slot in between him and Brian Breech of GS Mengoni. We hit the climb and my legs are almost done, I hope I can hang on to the field as they fly by me like I had the laps before, recover and move back up on the flats.

No go. With 4 laps to go, my race was over. As you've already read in previous posts the rest of the 1/2/3 boys ripped it up in those final laps. WDC was wrecked to the point, when an easy-breezy looking Al Borouh, was trying to whisk him away after the race, I was worried about William the way you might be worried about your drunk friend going home with a suspicious dude she met at a bar. Perlberg was cross-eyed too. Ragot tried to french-kiss his protege and if anyone had the energy to lift their arms above their heads, there would have been high-fives all around.

So, the answer to my opening question, "how do you race when you're not feeling confident and strong?" Is simple. You race like you are strong and confident. You don't hide out at the back of the pack. You get to the front, you do what you can. You contribute. You push yourself. Otherwise you're just on a fast group ride and you don't need to pay $35 to do that.
I'm out for this weekend. Red Hook sat night then long ride sunday in the afternoon.
good stuff at the races and good discussions after.

A few things to add:

1. Taking advantage of confusion. Confusion is human and if people are distracted or paying attention to the wrong thing, they've given you an opening. I started the attack at the beginning because a Somerville Bike Shop guy was a few seconds ahead of the field and I couldn't tell if he was trying to steal away or just adjusting his clothing, as it appeared. I didn't shift into a bigger gear, I didn't get out of the saddle, I just increased my cadence, pointed my bike at him so it hopefully appeared to the field I was just going to sit on his wheel, rolled up behind him, and rolled past too quickly for him to get on. It was also almost a given that Stephen Dioslaki would attack up the hill, so I would get ahead of him.

2. The long move. I was amazed that Stephen got away clean. Still, with two of us and 47 miles to go, we knew better than to expect to hold off the field to the finish. We wanted a big lead early to discourage the field from chasing, but at the same time, one that would draw some motivated hammers to bridge to us. So we tried to settle in to a hard rhythm. Establish a gap, settle down, wait for others to bridge. To me, a four-to-six rider break in Prospect should be able to go the distance, especially if they have teammates behind.

3. A few times, I think, Mike and I were in a group that had actually split from the field, but didn't realize it. Ragot did and blasted up to drive the group. Maybe Eric can explain his thinking,but I saw it as a drive to pull splintered front away from the field with little regard to whether or not he could survive to the finish.
Wait! No Mueller, Perlberg, Ragot?
I'm in for the 1/2/3.
Rather not fly solo.
Anyone joining me?
Sorry,
Long on Saturday and short on Sunday in the park.
Priorities...
@JP #3

Eac of the times I bridged across to JP and Mike its because they were in relatively big groups. My thinking on one occasion when going down the hill was to get across and really open the gap up by putting the hammer down. The field had let up and I was able to get across cleanly. The group with JP and Mike didn't realize that they had an advantage to exploit. I went right to the front and hammered, but the front of the group didn't want to hang on.

The other two times I was able to get a ride across and was trying to make sure we had superior numbers in hte moves that mattered. Me Mike and JP in a group that ends up creating the winning move is a pretty good bet for our team.
Assuming I can keep from getting the stomach virus that my kids have been passing back and forth with their friends, I'm in. I also want to ride to Piermont or Rockland lake afterwards. Hoping I can keep out of my kid's version of hot potato.
4 laps of CP. Big bummer. I understand the Brooklyn crew wanting to skip this one. It occurred to me though, there might be a fun challenge in the 24-mile circuit race with a field full of fit 1/2/3s. 24-miles is kind of a rough and long points race on the track, the kind that roadies tend to love. And lord knows, after you are done the feature-length points race, you are done, totally and utterly done. Until you make it to Taco Bell and tales of glory of the recent past. Sorry...flash back there...

So, the challenge, is how hard can we make the race this short. If we had the full crew from last week, the answer I think is pretty hard. Attacking out of our minds, trying to spring Perlberg, JP, Ragot, WDC loose.

But, I understand...sleep, long rides, etc. These are all better options for most this weekend. But if you change your minds, drop a note and I will continue my scheming.
It will almost certainly be five laps. He listed the first at four as well and it was five.

To me, the value is in the intensity, not the distance.
in philly this weekend

carry the torch proudly, fellow Oranges
In SF this til wednesday. Good luck team!