thanks for the suggestions. are there a lot of cyclists out there with chronically sore necks?

re form and bike setup. i've thought alot about. recently i started doing on-bike stretching to get my thoracic/lumbar vertebrae straights and shoulders back to take some of the load off the neck. its been fairly successful, but i still have issues on any rides longer than 2 hours. as for bike setup, ive made a lot of adjustments but it would def pay to get second opinion.

otherwise, ill be dialing up a thai massage next week!

Kevin, I've had the sore neck thing. I attributed some of it to sitting tasking at the computer. Physio fixed it, but you need to fix the cause. On the bike, one thing I found I was slipping into a default position, with excess pelvis tilt that was giving me a rounded back and giving me pain. I made an effort to be more mindful of position while riding and it felt much better... felt like I could create more power with everything more lined up. Like the guy says here: http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2008/09/ride-from-the-core/
If you got someone to video yourself on the bike, I think you'll find there's a big difference between how you think you're positioned and the reality. Alexander Technique stuff.

Other:
- Second Mike's suggestion of foam roller and it is excellent especially for hip flexor—see youtube
- I have a hard time making Yoga happen—the attached PDF routine keeps a lot of things in check for me (key is to do it every day).
- Do you cross train? Once you've "fixed" the problem short term, consider introducing another sport that works the muscular-skeletal—weights, tennis, running?

as long as we are talking about necks, i will add my experience in past 3 months or so. i was in too tight a tuck going down hill for about half an hour in the end of august, and that i think combined with my shoulders and neck being overtired from going up the hill, caused a spasm. i have had them in my lower back before, where all the muscles seized up and i cant move at all and spend a few days on the couch, but that hasn't happened in a few years, which i attribute to spending an hour or two at the gym doing core and lifting. in any case, though, i hadn't had the neck think before. it was very painful, and i was off the bike for 2 months. i think that what can happen is that the nerve itself can get irritated and have inflammation, or perhaps it is the sheath around the nerve. usual types of physical therapy, including heating, stretching, strengthening, icing, and loads of anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen, can help the surrounding supporting musculature and tendons, however, they dont do much for the inflamed nerve itself. THAT is trickier. I went to my favorite PT , who basically just did some light traction and gave me the simple exercises etc, but that really seemed to irritate it more. i decided to try an osteopath. i didnt really know that much about them, but now i understand that it is somewhat similiar to a chiropractor except that a) they actually have a medical degree and do 4 years or more of internship, like a regular doctor, and b) they are accepted by many insurance policies, so i felt better about going to one than a chiropractor. However, my experience was that the ostopath did some pretty dramatic adjustments on my neck and lower back, and that really did seem to irritate it. most notably, i noticed tingling and numbness in my left hand fingertips. that, it turns out, is a bad sign that the nerve is getting pinched or that there is nerve inflammation. i have a friend who has been complaining of numbness in his hands from neck pain for about 6 months, and his orthopedist is pressuring him to get surgery on it! when i heard that, i decided to take things a lot easier on myself. anything to avoid spinal surgery. in the end, now i am about 79-80% active, training indoors, and doing the core and weight work in the gym, and running. the cross training doesnt hurt. being on the bike for more than an hour does irritate it. so does long hours sitting at the computer. i have heard that there is a device that you can get which you can attach to a door, and give yourself some traction on the neck, and that that is something that will relieve the pressure on the nerve. i will let you know if i get one. although i now believe that it really just takes a lot of time to let the nerves heal, i do think that a good PT is essential for building the support around nerve injuries, and that the osteopath has some good approaches to spinal alignment that are worth listening to. in spite of the irritation of the nerve i experienced, i would still highly reccomend my PT, who works for Mark Morris dance company, and the Osteopath, who is in park slope. so let me know offline if you want contact info.

Also, try one of the tempurpedic contoured pillows (IKEA has a similar one much less expensive but it was never available when I went to the store). I tried it only a few years ago (before I thought it was a gadget), great for my neck. I generally suffer now when I don't have it in hotels, etc.

http://www.tempurpedic.com/Contoured-Pillows/Medium-NeckPillow-121_337-opt.aspx?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=comparsionshopping&aff=5135&utm_source=gshop&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=PLA&mkwid=1E13D27B2035492AA1AC9661130FD427&gclid=CM2G67yz_6wCFcbc4AodGxHKRQ

I will share my heretical skepticism:

Chiropractors claim to cure things like bronchitis, allergies and color blindness. I am wary.
Osteopaths are equivalent to MD's, but the one I went to for hip pain began her investigation by asking if I was born vaginally or via cesarean. Feathers, webbed feet and a waddle.
PT in my mind usually equals stretching, some strange exercises and ultimately results in less time training to make time for the strange new PT, which results in rest. Never clear to me which is at the root of recovery.
Massage has been great, but my masseuse is (was?) Rick the Pricks partner Leslie so I had to stop seeing her on general principal that I don't want to be within even two degrees of his douche-baggery.

I do think the one thing that has helped immensely is a good bike fit, keeping in mind the fit you can race on for 90 minutes is not always the fit you can ride on for 5 hours.

I concur with Jules (right down to the no-longer-going-to-Leslie-when-I-found-out-she-was-married-to-Rick syndrome). But also check this out:
http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Mind-Body-Connection/dp/0446392308
It 's helped me immensely.

I have an issue that I don't know how to resolve:

I have been getting an intermittent and excruciatingly painful stabbing electric pain in my left knee; typically it lasts for about 20-30 seconds and vanishes without a trace.

Happens at random times, almost never when riding.

It does seem that my whole left side (hamstring/glute/low back) is much tighter than my right.

Granted I should stretch more but this seems pretty weird. Would love to find a witch doctor that could fix me up good.

j

Figured this thread was a good enough place to put this book sample on recovery:

http://velopress.competitor.com/sample/sample_AGR.pdf

Something that I've struggled with and never been good at. I haven't read more than a page of this yet but it does look intriguing...

Question to the forum: I've put in more miles in January/February than ever before, and I do feel like it's paying dividends. On a weekly basis, I'm probably riding 4 days/week (on average - family duties sometimes reduce this to 3), and it's a combination of trainer (w/intervals), PP (combination of intervals, threshold, and some days just tempo) and probably once a week over the GWB to get in some longer miles/climbs. It's not as scientific as some of y'all, of course, but I'm feeling more fit and comfortable on the bike than ever before. That's the good news.

My problem - the last few days out, my legs just feel lifeless - no pop at all. Yesterday, my lungs felt ready to do more than my legs were willing to accommodate - that's quite the opposite of where I've been in the past.

Advice (beyond HTFU Stearns)? Do I need more rest? More easy rides? Battenkill is 1 month 2 days away and I want to go into it with my legs feeling more like rockets than the bags of useless goo they feel like this morning....

Posted By: dstearnsI've put in more miles in January/February than ever before

Well, this is part of your answer.

Total rest isn't the answer. You're on the bike building fitness and getting comfortable. You don't want to give that up.

Here is what I do when I'm feeling that way:

1) Swap out some intensity for endurance miles
2) Find friends to make riding more enjoyable. - If you want to do hard stuff then competition will make you go hard. If you are struggling to get on the bike the camaraderie will help.
3) Ride rollers instead of the trainer
4) Eat better
5) Drink less
6) Sleep more

Now obviously, we should be doing all these things all the time, especially the last 3. But I find that the increased focus on those aspects of my life helps a bit.

That was vague, hope it helps a bit.

Thanks Mike....very helpful.

The eating/drinking stuff I've been pretty good about. We cook a lot, and eat really healthy at home for the most part. The sleep I definitely need to work on.

Luckily, thanks to Kissena, I've had no shortage of good peeps to ride with/learn from....rarely an issue getting on the bike (it's hands-down the most enjoyable part of my day, even when I'm suffering) and the competition is definitely helping. Though Thierry and Reiners flogged me good yesterday!

Sleep and rollers...sleep and rollers....

What about stretching? Any tips?

Dave,

(It's hard to know if any one day of "bad legs" is indicative of something bigger)

I'm also sitting on a massive Jan/Feb and it's really tempting to get over-protective of the fitness gains... by continuing to ride. I think the people who rest the best this spring will be those racing the best in june/july; the others will be burned out/overtrained.

My experience is limited to me, but what I learned last year was that if you are healthy and motivated it is VERY hard to rest too much.

Generally I follow a 4 week cycle (3 weeks of real training to each week of recovery) although some of the younger lads (MIKE!) live on a 5 week cycle with no ill effect.

Regardless, that 1 week of recovery is critical. 3-4 rides of 45 minutes with my HR under 110. Yeah, you heard me. Under one hundred and ten.

If you're feeling the lack of pop, and you haven't rested much, give it a try. You aren't going to lose any real fitness in any 7 day stretch, but it is far better to be out spinning like an old lady that doing nothing.

Look at the chart below - there isn't as much disciplined rest as I'd like, but plenty of very easy (sub 4 hours) weeks. Now I'm not going to be riding Handsome Joe Mueller off my wheel anytime soon, but I'm doing pretty well, and feel strong enough to hit my ranges.

stretching is only good if you're doing it consistently.

Listen to your body. If you got decent rest yesterday, tonight and tomorrow night, you could be ready to go hard again by Wednesday. If, Wednesday dawns and you don't seem ready, or you still feel like you're missing something on the bike, don't put in any hard efforts again until the weekend--and really thrash yourself on the weekend (if you're racing Saturday, then openers Friday). Then you've got three weeks to B'kill. That's enough to keep on building until you get there.

Stretching feels nice, but foam rollers are my cup of tea:

http://www.runnersworld.com/images/cma/foamroller200x200.jpg

Also: as far as eating etc goes. I know there is no quick fix. But sometimes when I"m tired I also find my eating habits get bad. Tired + hungry = eating a loaf of bread with butter. Not good. So if I focus a bit more on planning some controlled healthy meals it helps me mentally.

Mike

like mike, i tend to overdo it when i'm hungry, as it takes a while for the nutrients to hit the blood stream and the brain to signal satiety.

when i have time, i like to make a big meal of a salad: lots of watercress or arugula (or another green that actually tastes like something), loaded with peppers, vidalia onions, tomatoes, toasted pumpkin seeds, and a big helping of protein (usually grilled skinless chicken thighs or good canned tuna), then top it all with a homemade mustard vinaigrette.

what i like about that meal is that it's a bit of work to get lots of calories down, so i can eat it for a long time (several servings), let my body catch up with the hunger, and end up consuming a "normal" amount of calories.

I second Jules's recovery spin advice. On a rest week -- in addition to shortening up your workouts -- swap one or two out for a true-blue recovery spin where you do high-ish cadence at heart rate under ~110 bpm. One of the cool things about those rides is that you'll find yourself suddenly feeling like a caged badger; if only you didn't have that wimpy HR cap, you'd be tearing it up. Very mentally restorative, in addition to physically.

awesome advice all around - thanks guys. did the under 110 bpm ride last night for 45 minutes in PP, got a good night sleep....gonna try this for the next few weeks and see how it goes - hopefully ready to hammer away again by later this week, and will def try the cycles. appreciate the timely and thoughtful guidance!

@WDC - that salad sounds friggin' delicious!
@perlberg - i know my way around the foam roller (and still have it in my closet)....that thing is both incredibly effective and the bane of my existence....got very familiar it during PT recovering from torn meniscus in my knee, and a banjo-like IT band....

re: the roller - that thing hurts me so bad I break out into a full body sweat. No lie, I'll tell you where the microfilm is.

NY Velocity is running a fundraiser for Markus Bohler, who died in the Bethel 3/4 race this past weekend.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/race-results/2012/hangover-march-19-2012

Donate if you can.

Got on the bike today. Rode rollers for 35 minutes without resistance. 100w feels fine when rolling on smooth drums.

Is this setting me back? Oy, the headache from thinking too hard.

how many fully-inflated lungs do you have right at this moment?

Rollers?

With broken ribs?

You can't even pick up Oscar, how are you gonna prop yourself up if you have to?

You are either my hero or just plain nuts.

I'll stick to the wind trainer for now given that I can only use one arm for propping myself up and for general balance. With my luck I'd lose my balance on the dismount and land on my bad shoulder for sure.

There's a seems to be a club mentality in doing arguably stupid stuff like that. My own idiocy depicted below.
Hey, in all seriousness, I''m sorry that I didn't get to chime in earlier, I wish you guys bith a speedy recovery (and of course Thierry too).

Here you go

Last time

lol

looking good, neil

1. My lungs were fully inflated as of Monday. The surgeon was confident enough in them remaining that way that he pulled the chest tube.

2. Our own Charlie La Punzina is an expert in this stuff, I'm sending him x-rays shortly. He seems to be of the mind that in a week or two, I should have much of my motion back.

3. There is a fear that if poeple with rib injuries don't breathe fully, that will lead to other problems.

4. So the issue is first, not crashing and landing on the ribs before they've knitted together. Three of the four should be going together easily, the fourth will take a bit more time. I'll have more x-rays done on monday.

5. the second issue is not breathing so hard as to have the body squeeze a broken rib into a lung. I think I can control that. I won't race for a while--not like last time, when I raced a six-turn pro criterium two days later. Ouch.

6. An issue for me at least, is general body function. Going cold turkey is rough on both sleep and the digestive system. I'm hoping light exercise helps with both.

7. Oscar has climbed into my arms. He weighs 14 pounds or so more than the steel Merckx. I have picked up Madeleine; she's 6-7 pounds less. If I use my legs, I can pump up my tires--willprobably take CO2 instead of a regular pump fior a little while.

Thank Neil, I wish you also a speedy recovery. I am going to see Dr. Helfelt at the Hospital of Special Surgery so that he can assess my clavicle which is the most critical as far as pain goes. I finally got my ass to a stationary bike a couple days ago at my local gym pedaling for around 45 minutes. It felt good to be on the saddle and sweat a little.

I'm sorry Thierry. Didn't mean to give the impression that I'm still on the disabled list. That photo is about three years old. I just remembered that feeling though that I had to ride, even if only one-legged, much to the costernation of my family. So I am presently uninjured (at least for the moment). Anyway, I'm glad to hear that the recovery seems to be going well. Keep it up. We will see you out there soon enough,.

JP

I was busting your chops because you went straight for the rollers. No way would I think you would let your fitness totally go to pot even if you don't have Neil's super cool recovery trainer.

Thierry - maybe Neil will sell you his trainer if he still has it! Hope your recovery is going well