Plus I've been waiting to watch you drop that "i'm fat" line on someone since last spring :P

I will be heading out for a hangover 40 mile TT on Friday over the GWB, so the "Tubbs is here to sit in" line will be in full effect on Saturday. I haven't raced since the AVD CP 5-crash fiesta in early March so I'm....uh....ready!

@ Joe. Let's pick a morning next week for La Brook d'Huez and the Cole de Manhattan. Am thinking Tuesday around 4.45am, then a few laps around PP and connect with the morning crew.

Anyone else in? I'll shout the coffee and muffins.

I would be down to help with the assault on Col du Roebling and the Manhattanhorn. 4:45AM on Tuesday @ BB starting point for Kissena rides!

I hate the idea of getting up at that hour, but I could do it.

We have 11 registered Kissena's for the Cat 4 race. Not quite the 20 we had last week, but we should be well stacked with strong riders. We've got our KOM riders lined up and our Sprint riders lined up, as well as last week's winner. We want to control the race again, but this time we should go a little differently.

It was great seeing Kissena in every break last week, and having guys go with our breaks finally! The Cat 4s are teachable, they've learned when a Kissena goes off the front, they're worth going with. They finally realized we're actually blocking-- they still haven't learned enough to actually do anything about the blocking and do the work at the front--and are willing to go with our riders. I think we need to keep our breakaway powder dry for the second half of this race, and really light it up then.

If Christian is looking for green jersey points, he won't be fresh for the sprint. I haven't heard anyone else put themselves out there as a field sprinter. Maybe Vollbach sits back for that after KOM.

I think Jules should take a crack and a late race solo attack. I think after the second KOM is a decent time for this, is that when Dave made his move last week?

So what I'm hearing so far is this:

The lap before the second KOM, two Kissenas take a crack at a breakaway attack, possibily bringing one or two other strong riders with them. Depending on the gap they hold, those two either keep going or just go for the KOM points. At that point Jules (or another strong Kissena) initiates a solo attack when the field is gassed from either trying to close the gap or battle for the KOM.

Is that right?

Sounds like a good plan

Green is a priority over yellow/final sprint in the L&C race. Two sprint attempts shouldn't cook me if I stay shielded the rest of the time.

Properly lead out, the green attempts wouldn't be incredibly taxing.

I was looking to get into the green jersey myself. I've got two points already and I am looking to move up in the standings this week. I think if Christian and I are going for this as well we could work something out to stack this field. We just need one other person to help run a leadout for us.

Christian, I think we should focus on getting you some wins/placings and into the yellow jersey, since David is looking to upgrade shortly so he will not be our protected rider in the yellow for much longer. So as a team strategy having you in the hunt for winner points is better for us overall keeping all three jerseys.

Vollbach has 10 pts plus what?

Going for yellow seemed like a waste given the likelihood that a Kissena break will succeed now that we've demonstrated, and have confidence in, our ability to block.

But that's undermined by the fact that it's PP and breaks rarely survive.

@Cat 4 team. If Jules is up the road, we should still have a train assembled for Owens/Kaiser/Condon/Whitey/Yacks (please save it for the end!) leading out Vollbach sitting behind chasers.

Does there come a point with our numbers when blocking the whole time becomes unsporting? Perhaps we let the other teams run their paceline and not interfere for a while—just sit directly behind and cover?

@ Stearns. Strava Roubaix looks cheaper than TGV, let's do it!

Blocking the whole time without setting up Green/Yellow/KOM leadouts is what it is, isn't it. We can do the former easily. Let's challenge ourselves and accomplish the latter.

I would like to see Dan get his hands on the green...he has been SLAYING himself for 3 years to help me get it. It should be his turn. If Dan is not getting himself in the points, we can re-eval. Christian could certainly get in green, but he is clearly a better sprinter for the finale. With so many strong guys shooting off the front lately, the logistics of managing these competitions is going to be tough. You guys nail down how you want this to shake out. I'm up for anything. I might be a marked man in green on Sat. This is good for the team, as others might wait for my move. Someone should attack early, like just before the parking lot. This is where I have launched and had success. It's an all out sprint for about 100 yards to get your seperation and hope you are alone. That's all I gots....yack

The other option for cornering the sprint and KOM is to attack on the hill for both these laps and try and stay away for one lap to grab the points. Not as hard as you might think as you know going in your effort will be for one lap. Also anyone going for the KOM or sprint will likely not want to do any work on those laps....this leaves alot of strong guys out of the chase. The suspense!!! i hope it lasts...yack

So to get some clarity going here, allow me to sketch out a straw man.

If we don't have a man in a break, or if there are any remaining points available, we should do leadouts for:

Green Jersey: Dan and/or Kaiser
KOM Jersey: Ryan and/or ??? (someone should also get Sergey's wheel -- Hudson currently in dots on yellow bike -- and try to pip him for points)
Yellow Jersey: Vollbach and/or Kaiser

If we do have a break away (and it's credible) we should work to keep it away as our top priority. Chances are, there won't be many sprint or KOM points left not gobbled up by the break. However, unless it's a very large break, there will be yellow points leftover, and we should probably try for the 1km suicide attack to force chasers, with Dave and Kaiser following wheels to the sprint (and one of them leading the other out).

Let's try to edit this until it represents our actual plan.

I would also like to add one thing: when we block, we should try not to be at the front. Better to intersperse ourselves among the front, and let other teams burn matches with us just gumming up the works.

Yacks: Your offer to let me go for the green when you're wearing it yourself is really kind, but I'm willing to let Dan have a go for it as you suggested. Re-evaluation may or may not be necessary, but if he's been putting in digs for you like that for three years, he deserves his chance.

I wish to remain flexible with the desires of others. I am happy to go for yellow if Vollbach anticipates upgrading soon. I said green because I figured it was geared towards a sprinter like me, and I didn't want to step on Vollbach's toes days after he soloed off the front for first place. KOM, well! But I'm happy to go for the yellow as a sprinter in the finale. Upgrading is my ultimate goal anyway.

I'm aiming to find my niche, and since it really looks like sprinting, I ought to do it properly and save as much for the end as possible. Proper positioning through shielding and blocking/intimidating others will be key. If successful breaks make this a best-of-the rest strategy, so be it. The discipline needs to be there. It's just so boring to race that way though; my desire for some action is what left me weaker for the sprint last weekend!

I agree it will be tough to have leadout plans for even two Jerseys let alone all five attempts, but let's be diligent in the preceding days in establishing who does what.

There is a possibility I will aim to be near the front to read the green laps and even see if Dan is properly positioned and fresh. If he isn't, we need to know who we will give it to instead. I'm not saying me. It would be shitty of me to go for green and yellow simultaneously. We just need to know our priorities. Maybe Dan/Yack/Me, in that order?

And to any and all reading this, chime in. Let the team know what you want.

-C

<blockquote><cite>Posted By: Jeffrey White</cite>I would also like to add one thing: when we block, we should try not to be<i>at</i>the front. Better to intersperse ourselves<i>among</i>the front, and let other teams burn matches with us just gumming up the works.</blockquote>

Couldn't agree more, Jeff. It has several advantages: first, our control of the front isn't as obvious or alarming to others and should invite some beneficial complacency. Second, when the guys at the very front burn their matches, we'll be there to hitch on. Third, it will be less tempting to get strung out as we eventually draft behind team mates. When we're strung-out, we get swallowed. Instead, we can focus more on blocking would-be passerbys on the descents by maintaining a wide lateral presence.

Gymkata is so 2011.

*this* is the victory dance we should be practicing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZNY3i6MybpU#!

I think the point isn't to block for the first half of the race. I think we should go for a completely different strategy, than the patented Kissena Attack Until Something Sticks (TM). Don't go for any breakaways for the first half, let other chase, but setup for our KOM and Sprint competition "protected riders" and deliver them to the line first. We keep Jules, Ryan, David and Christian all in reserves (no lead outs, no attacks, just sit-in).

Around laps 5-6, we unleash the riders in the reserves, going for two-up breakaway attempts. By this time the other teams are ususally softened up by our KOM and Sprint teams, and strong-well organized attacks have a chance to get away and stay away from the bunch. The rest of us do our best to disrupt any chase attempts by being present but non-participatory in the chase.

if it all comes back together in the last lap, we should try for another lead-out attempt for Christian to put us in the money this week again.

not very effective to have three different squads doing strategy chats in a single thread

this one is for the 123's to brief/debrief

upcoming race: 4/28/12 Saturday Morning Race.

We have:

David Stokes
Ragot
Joaquin
Malcolmson
Lenny Katz
Bertucco
Perlberg
rene
william
Dusan Strika
Vlad (just joined, still listed as Speedwell)

The situation:

Joe is tied for 1st in KOM, but he's not racing and isn't interested in the jersey. I say forget these intermediate competitions and go for some finish line results. This means breakaways as usual (counterattack when people sit up after the Sprints/KOMs) but also work on delivering john to the line at the end. We know how to ride breakaways, but (as noted in the Leadout thread) we need to step it up in taking care of our sprinter. This means GETTING TO THE FRONT before the downhill on the last lap.

Last comment: COMMUNICATE DURING THE RACE! this means talking and YELLING if need be, calling out (marco polo style) for other Kissenas to figure out where they are.

If you haven't renewed with Kissena, now would be a good time. Also her your usacycling license renewed.

I like it. If it doesn't come back I'll maintain discipline and claw it for best of the rest.

We should really meet the morning of and see exactly who is up for what.

C

Posted By: Christian RefakisI like it. If it doesn't come back I'll maintain discipline and claw it for best of the rest.

We should really meet the morning of and see exactly who is up for what.

C

He's right but meeting the morning of is a real bitch with the new 6:15 start.

I say keep Christian out of the two up attacks. Christian, sit in and do nothing the whole race. I mean NOTHING. Be allergic to the wind, as the great Greg Donavon once told me. Then, unleash. Boring? Maybe. But you might win, and that won't be boring

If you're fresh, the worst case scenario is that we are not yet skilled enough to accomplish the lead out we want to accomplish, and your left with a fresh set of legs to take on the other fellas, who will also not have a good lead out.

In fact, even with the half-assed messy lead out made up of tired legs, you've got a better train that anybody else. Cuz they got nothin.'

As for the late attacks, I say we send Dave out first. Given that he soloed to victory last week, him off the front late in the race will no doubt cause a stir. They'll work hard to bring him back, and when they do, me and Jules counter that shit. And I might try to get a strong guy from another team to come with us.

Then the sprinters with no teams helping will have to work to bring US back, with Christian comfortably in tow.

?

I like it. But I want a crack at a counter too. If not this week, soon.
:devil:

I'm still interested in vying for KOM (with others) if we need back up. I don't have any points yet but could give it a go.

Don't mind me, guys...just...looking...around... nice place you all got here.

Sounds like a good plan Ryan. Hopping on the breaks will be tempting but im keen on building my discipline as a sprinter. There's plenty of time for breaks at Floyd.

The obvious PS - The guy in yellow probably won't like being bait for an eventual counterattack, but if he's a kissena through and through, perhaps he'll oblige.

Could be a good squad...but too many "new" names on the start list to make me feel comfortable going into the race without a little discussion. Can we get a roll call of goals and expectations.

I'm personally most interested in being part of an effective end-game. And I'm not talking about last lap breakaway attempts. We've got a number of "sprinters" (Rene, Katz, Malcolmson) on our squad who are accustomed to freelancing it at the end, but I'm confident that we can do better.

I expect WDC, Perlberg and Ragot to be our true breakaway threats, with Perlberg being our #1.