We should aim to be lead out as a team. If its kissena completely in front we will only be leading out someone else, like Lorenzo Brown.

Lining up on the right works well. Pull off hard left to block would-be sprinters and gum up the works.

The later we initiate out leadout, the better. I suspect blocking the left side will be most helpful.

@ Kaiser if you are in the leadout and you make any hard moves you can take down 20 guys behind you... all of whom will be rightly furious once they have staunched the bleeding.

Be aware and do not dop anchor into a charging line

I meant block if possible. If leadout guys are far ahead enough of what's behind it won't be dangerous. I
Assume our guys will make the safe call always, but leadout guys gotta go somewhere.

I would never ask our guys to cause crashes.

C.

@ Kaiser; absolutely. I find that when people are snotting all over the front at 400+ watts it always "feels" like there is nobody close behind you. Personally that is the most nerve wracking part of a leadout; being spent 300m from the line is a scary place to be. Can't turn left, can't turn right, can't slow down - but have to...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8StG4fFWHqg

Posted By: Christian Refakis
Lining up on the right works well. Pull off hard left to block would-be sprinters and gum up the works.

The later we initiate out leadout, the better. I suspect blocking the left side will be most helpful.

I agree with Jules, don't pull off left. Lining up on the right usually leaves plenty of space to move up as most riders try to hug the left side/shortest line from the bottom of the downhill to the parking lot. We should look to be moving the line to the left as we take over, but riders shouldn't fall off the paceline on the left unless you can bail out into the jogger's lane (gotta drop anchor fast there). I would suggest moving to the right if you're gassed and keep trying to move forward even if you drop from 25mph to 20 it is still better than going from 25 to 10 and getting rear-ended in the middle of the pack.

This weather doesn't encourage a field sprint. THe mood of the pack will. There is a large group that's going to do absolutely nothing all race. It's figuring out the combinations of attackers and the timing. I don't see Mengoni saving it for the sprint, nor do I see WS United putting all their eggs in the sprint basket. So once Mengoni and United are in the break, neither has a need to set up a field sprint. There are a number of good breakaway riders signed up and if we can team up with them, this race will probably be decided from a small group. Get one of our guys along with Dioslaki (Metra), Durso (Colavita), Jermaine Burrowes (just signed up) of WS United, one Mengoni, and maybe Leigh Sorrels of Fior di Fruitta, and the race will be won up the road.

The fly in the ointment will be the Somerville guys. Sometimes they're good in the break,sometimes they effectively doom it.

Pretty sure I'll be there...If Torres is there...he will likely be going for the green. Dan will be marked in that green lantern kit. I propose going from about 1k to lure him out. If I'm alone I'll take it to the line and wait to see how things shake out behind...If I see Dan in the points I'll pull up...If Dan is gapped I'll roll across to take the points. Ideally I will take 1 or two guys with me into deep water and then drop anchor on the wheel suckers. If I can get out front alone it would also be a good strategy...as no one else knows that I am going to stop before the line...Anyone sprinting who is not going to get 2nd or 3rd place will pull up thinking they are out of the points. Very cagey of me...Don't worry Dan, I'm not pulling a "Hinault"......or am I ????.....but I kid! This move was easier when I was in green...as those on my wheel thought I was going for points....yacks

I'm making sure I have 5-8 people in front of me as we pass the boards, and unleashing my best sprint (no more than 36 mph; I've never exceeded that speed in practice) as I come over the top of the small hill. We'll see what it's good for.

When I talked to Ragot about sprinting technique two weeks ago, he really stressed patience and accelerating through the line. I plan to incorporate both things in my finish tomorrow.

Before then, I jumped too early and aimed for a top speed to hold. Hence I was swarmed and resigned to a top 20 placing.

Posted By: John Malcolmson
I like Marc's race plan, although a bit confused about the intermediate sprints—isn't it just points for the series?

No one is currently in the hunt for the intermediate sprint jerseys, however, there are a couple of riders on our squad who don't have a lot of race miles in their legs this year and so I suggested going for the sprints as a way to shock/test the system and/or get them in the thick of the action.

Some of the best sprinters I've ever raced with (namely a dude who legitimately could hit 1800 watts, and was half a wheel away from a national championship a few years back), would often go for sprint primes, not for the prizes in of themselves, but as a way to help them get ready for the big show on the last lap.

ready to take my digs in the train to help keep dan in green, too. felt good this morning, and work was a f'ing whore today so i'm ready to take it out on the pedals in the morning.

i'll head to the front as discussed above, and slot into the line wherever i can. any interest in quick pre-race meet-up to chat train order, etc? talking helped a lot last time - just throwing that out there. race! race!

See you guys soon. Let's chat at the bathrooms if we can.

Hey...they don't have to be novellas, but 140-character updates would be better than nothing, right?

[cue sound efx: crickets chirping]

guys? anyone race today?

@Marc

I listed a quick report over on the may 12 racing thread.

Really good news is that JP is riding strong and agressive. Bad news is that when we live and die by the breakaway...well....

No seriously the finish was a mess. Rec riders all over the road. Car parked in the right lane. Eeek.

We looked like a solid crew out there. Just no result this week.

5/12/12 L&C Cup Race Report:

One of my more interesting days.

My plan was, I'm now embarrassed to admit, win the effing race. Stay shielded for most of the race and go for the sprint at the end. A sub-plan was to be at or near the front for the green attempts; for two reasons: first, I wanted the practice of moving up from the back. Second, I wanted to analyze the way the green sprinters initiated their sprint - how hard were they going, and when? When do they make their jump? etc. I thought it would be beneficial to have that in mind for my own finish since I am still new to sprinting and trying to learn the positioning and timing of it.

For me, nothing happens until the first green (remind me guys, lap 4?) Per my personal plan, I was about the 8th wheel passing the boards on the right side. I am studying the way Dan and Yacks pull themselves slightly to the left before they make their jump. At that point, it began to get really sketchy with everyone around me jockeying for position.

There's something special about crashes. With the sixth sense we all have, we know when they're going to happen. Everyone is jockeying for position, but it looks too aggressive. Too sketchy. I hear a few guys slam on the brakes. Then, all of a sudden, I hear that carbon crunching: a Major Taylor racer is down on the ground five feet in front of me, laying on his right side, back facing me. I have no choice but to grab the brakes, avoiding wheel-locking in doing so. I T-bone him in the back with my front wheel, go flying over my bars onto the ground, curling up for half a second incase anyone else is going to hit me while I'm down. Then, realizing that my bike and I looked OK from a 1-second glance, I said, today is an important race for me, I can't let this stop me!!! I got back on the bike and burned a nice big match hitching on the back of the peloton.

I towed a guy up with me. I didn't actually know what shape my bike was in, so I start shouting at him "Is my rear wheel true?!" he goes "you're good kid you're good kid." My left shifter was bent in but I fixed that. Everything else looked good. Alright, I said to myself, time to just count my blessings and get ready for the sprint.

Feeling lucky, I was aggressive at some points during the race, chasing down a break one time. Did a couple other things, but really knew my job was to save as much energy as possible. With two laps left I met up with Dan and Yacks. Yacks was low on max power and decided he would launch himself off the front early to get people to chase.

Going towards the finish, I was pretty obsessed with following Dan and initiating my sprint as late as possible, since I've jumped too early in the past. I was about eigth wheel following Dan, but I started the sprint too late. When I could have been rocketing off the front, I got boxed in and bumped bars/elbows with guys on BOTH sides. Freaked me out a little as I had just crashed earlier in that race.

I'm encouraged with the result actually because now I think I'm learning when the perfect time for me to go is. I saved lots of energy today, and since I've really started working on my sprint technique lately, I felt like I had a ton of power that i wasn't able to put out because I was boxed in. I've honestly never felt that way before.

Dan told me after that I should have gotten off his wheel and used someone fresher for a leadout. Had I done that I may not have gotten boxed in. Though I was keen on sticking to our leadout plan, I told him, "OK. I'm calling an audible next time."

Took top 20, maybe top 15, don't really know or care.

The feeling of having so much energy left in a sprint and being able to do nothing with that energy was infuriating. I then went to do the Triangle ride, meeting them in Cold Spring Harbor at 9:30. With an angry vengeance, I soloed off the front for what felt like half the ride, attacking and being caught 5-6 different times, holding long leads each time.

My left knee got hurt pretty bad in the crash, I'm limping pretty bad now but I think I'll be fine in two days even. Per the triangle ride, the knee is ridable.

Congrats Dan on staying in Green and thanks for your help. Adam, my homeboy from Huntington, congrats on 5th at Hunter!!!

Christian,

That sprint was a mess, and the guys who crossed the line first, were nowhere to be seen up until the very end. You should definitely follow wheels if your leadout isn't doing it for you. My legs were not 100% but I did give it everything I could, and it just wasn't enough to keep you in the right position for as long as I needed to do that for. I was battling Lorenzo and others for wheels and I ended up keeping my nose in the wind too long at the end.

I am putting this in the thread because well. Victor took a great photo, and I don't have my normal race face that looks like a cross between "I just smelled something disgusting" and "This is my impersonation of a basking shark filtering plankton"

http://www.oneimagingphotography.com/Cycling/LucarelliCastaldiCupRace51212/LucarelliCastaldiCupRacecat4/i-BPt8f9B/0/M/8O2T0179-copy-M.jpg

Nice socks

Not sure exactly how the sprints went down...but Dave and Jim were up front keeping the pace rolling....I believe we came up on a small break in the 1st sprint and I jumped over them with Dan behind me. Close to the line Dan came by and I made sure to grab the 2nd place points. In the 2nd sprint (the crash happened here?) a rider from another team hit the front early and I assume was leading it out for a teammate but he wound up putting Dan and I in perfect position for the sprint. Same result. The more we accumulate points, the fewer people will go for the sprints. I think the hill coming up just after the sprint is a good deterrent. Hitting that climb after unloading sucks it! Oh and I just realized that 2nd place in the sprint competition is a Giro Atmos helmet. I have my heart set on getting that helmet as my 10 year old Giro is starting to smell vile. I can't get involved in leadouts for the finale after contesting the intermediate sprints. I have no top end at the end and will likely find myself in trouble mixing it with guys that are going over 1000 watts. I attacked on th last lap in hopes of just making it over the climb out of sight. This would force other teams to burn matches closing it...but I went from too far out and spit the bit on the climb. I am still amazed that Christian stacked it, remounted and then chased back on. That was impressive. In closing...I have a zany idea for the next race. We have so many riders that we can afford to try something unorthodox.
I propose that we keep our sprinter protected and give him 3-4 riders for the lead out....here is something for the rest of us to try
At the parking lot before heading out for the last lap, why don't we set up a train to launch some of our stronger riders up the climb for a last lap attack? If we use maybe 3 guys to drill it and drop off a Jules, Volbach or Ryan type rider at the base of the climb, we could string out the field badly and sapp everyone's strength to chase up the climb. I would love to try this once. No one would expect a hug leadout train coming into the hill on the last...it would lead to confusion and mass hysteria! yacks

The only thing more pro would be if Champ Sys offered the leaders vinyl wraps for their frames - we need Dan on a matching green bike. That and some dopng controls

FWIW, I was talking this morning with a buddy of mine who rides for Jordan and he said that one of his teammates had designs on the green jersey this year but they have given up because of how we have dominated it thus far. 3 races in and he feels they already are too far behind to even try.

Yaks I like that plan; totally unorthodox, makes no sense at all and everyone will be like "WTF is a leadout train doing one lap early?"

The plan is either brilliantly stupid or stupidly brilliant! either way I'm willing to try it. There is no way the rest of the field is going to be able to find a wheel that is out of the wind. I think we could purge 30-40% of the sprinters with a move like this. The rest will be so gassed and confused by the audacity, they will be shot in the finale. If you guys can drop me off at the start finish with a few of our strongest, non sprinters behind me, I will drill it to the base of the climb. This gives our guys a shot at an attack on the hill. Even if it fails we will have our sprinter lying in wait with his lead out men. This gives every rider on the team an opportunity to contribute to the cause. It means shelling about 4-5 riders before the final climb...but at least we get to go back to the starters table and safely watch the finale....WHO'S WITH ME ?!?!
yacks

You guys have a group of guys with really strong threshold power. I say keep throwing them at the field in every which way until something sticks.

I am always willing to try something crazy, unorthodox, just plain wacky....all in the effort to get a Kissena win. So the plan is to attack big on the hill in the last lap. and try to crush the legs of the sprinters, and maybe get a strong 2 person Kissena break up the road? There might just be something there.

Jim, I spoke with the Jordan guy Brett Halpern, he came in 4th in each of the sprints on Saturday, and there is nothing worse than 4th in a sprint where there are points for 3 places. All the work, none of the pay-off.

Yacks I think we have a pretty good shot at being 1st and 2nd in the competition. Both of us can clearly outsprint Alfonso Torres, who in the second sprint on Saturday, was sitting on your wheel as you sat on his teammate, I went around him, and you kept him well off your wheel.

Maybe next L&C race, we completely switch it up, and the plan is breakaway city, all the time all day long. No leadouts unless we are all together at the end, we just go for attack after attack. If there isn't a Kissena up the road somebody should attack. We put the other teams on their heels, and try to break the field up.

I like the attack all day mentality. At the L & C's Dan I should keep getting the sprint points....at least until Dan is firmly in the lead, as in no one can overtake him. It is a game of #'s and there is no guarantee that some sprinter might say, "hey what the fuck, I'm going for these sprints for the hell of it and to practice sprinting." This could concevivably lead to a contender. Also if Dan flats out of a race or has a mechanical, that opens the door for other guys. Let's nail the coffin on this competition! Let us not forget that some ass-clown with a mediocre sprint stole the green jersey on the last weekend of racing the past 3 years :)

let's do it! im totally game. I'll even attack myself.

Cap'n Dan

He looks like one of The Avengers...

I realize he *means* to be pointing at his pasty white legs, but it looks more like he's pointing simultaneously at his watch and his junk, as if to say...'you know what time it is, ladies. that's right...my envelope has $240 in it....it's time to buy the pudding..."

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5604455/240_worth_of_pudding/

HULK SMASH!

Plan sounds awesome. Let's do it.