L&C Cup - Forum Archive

Apr 19, 2013 at 02:12 PM

@ashleyB in my one prospect park cat5 race, i think it was important not to attack on the hill until later in the race. keep yourself close enough to respond when people do, but don't be the one to pull everyone up the hill. before the winning break ended up forming on the hill, there were laps where people attacked on the hill. but everyone's legs were fresh enough to pick up the pace in response.

i think many people are most tired on the turn after the hill (where you would enter from GAP if you were in a car). if you could just sort of putter up the hill and conserve energy, you might be able to make an attack stick if you launched it there, when everyone's tired from the hill. this is something i wanted to try next race, in the spirit of "hey, it's the cat 5s and it's your first ten races, so just do a bunch of random shit and see if it works!"

my strava from the race said that the lap speed was about 21-22 mph for maybe 4 of the six laps (not the first four). you might be able to solo break at that speed. the later laps were about 2 mph faster, making it a little harder to break from, i guess. (or, for me, impossible)

harry bolick

Apr 19, 2013 at 02:38 PM

hi ALL cat4 L&C,
will be racing w/4's tomorrow 20th Apr; curious if there is a road captian to replace captian Dan?

who is working for jerseys:
Green(sprint)?
Dots(KOM)? (me, slightly interested)
yellow(leader)?

not sure of my comparitive fittness so am looking to work with group for club goals...

as 1st 4's race w/KCC have questions:
what lap& how many sprints?
what lap& how many KOMs?

current registered (11kcc cat4 racers):

Eric Mehlenbeck
McKay Duncan
Patrick Grehan
Jeffrey White
Matthew Arlyck
James Nelson
Jeff Condon
Bruce van-Schalkwyk
harry edmund bolick
Craig Zolan
Phillip Maronilla

pre-race meeting, 5:45a/6a? Prospect openers today(friday?)

anyone/mentors?
-harry:-)

Edwin Ortiz

Apr 19, 2013 at 02:43 PM

Im down for meeting up beforehand. we've got a pretty big group for cat 5 and last week's race got me amped up for tomorrow.

ashleyB

Apr 19, 2013 at 03:00 PM

Im up for registering earlier to roll at 5.45 from registration to discuss with 5s.

David Yang

Apr 19, 2013 at 03:00 PM

Hey 5s, just remember, it's only about 5 laps (17miles) unlike the Spring Series 7 laps. This means that you have to really bury yourself for a successful break attempt because people's legs will be fresh and everyone is willing to chase.

FWIW I don't ever remember seeing successful breaks in PP 5lap races before in the 5s.

Be prepared for a field sprint. I'm plenty willing to pull like a fiend to string out the field or act as a rabbit so that stronger guys like Clifford can be set up properly.

Bruce van-Schalkwyk

Apr 19, 2013 at 03:15 PM

I also like this new addition to the race, if you're the first old dude to cross the finish line, you get to be a silverback next race:

Don't forget - we have added a new competition this year, the Chamois Butt'r Master 45+ Leader. The leading Master 45+ rider in the Pro/1-2-3 and Category 4 races will wear an all silver kit (jersey, bibs, socks, caps and gloves) courtesy of Champion System.

It sounds very 1950s spacey. I'm nowhere near peak, but I'm gunning for my silverback outfit in the 4s.

Edwin Ortiz

Apr 19, 2013 at 03:16 PM

Since we are a big group would it be too much to suggest a part of us attack and counter those attacks that get caught during some of the early/middle laps. If that fails, we can have a designated sprinter that can be set up as david suggested. Passively waiting for a field sprint feels like a waste of resources to me, just saying. (or maybe i dont know what the hec im talking about and should let the big boys handle it) *shrug*

Craig Zolan

Apr 19, 2013 at 03:16 PM

A quick scan of the forum has the following interested for the different jerseys in the 4s:

Green: Dan, Andy Da Silva (neither racing 4/19) - Andy come on out
Dots: Tito, Konrad, Harry (Tito and Harry racing 4/19)
Leader: Jeff (racing)

Of your list above Patrick isn't racing because he is too busy making dinner and party plans for tonight. So we have a total of 10 guys. We should be able to control much of the race.

It's 9 laps, with 2 sprint and 2 KOM contests. Which laps they will be on is determined during the race, there will be a flag/bell on the beginning of the lap at each point.

2 or 3 guys should be dedicated to getting Tito and/or Harry the KOM points. We should also meet up on the right by the bandshell on last lap if it'll be a sprint to form a lead out for Jeff. Don't have to be at the front but near it up there and come to the front just after the pinch after the hill.

(All said by the relatively inexperienced guy).

Thierry Bonnaire

Apr 19, 2013 at 03:34 PM

Hey Harry,

Are you racing the 4's at last??!!!

David Yang

Apr 19, 2013 at 03:34 PM

Edwin Ortiz said:

Since we are a big group would it be too much to suggest a part of us attack and counter those attacks that get caught during some of the early/middle laps. If that fails, we can have a designated sprinter that can be set up as david suggested. Passively waiting for a field sprint feels like a waste of resources to me, just saying. (or maybe i dont know what the hec im talking about and should let the big boys handle it) *shrug*

Sure I'm willing to give anything a shot. Field sprint doesn't mean people aren't working or trying stuff, just that the field is generally strong enough to negate those attempts in such a short race.

harry bolick

Apr 19, 2013 at 03:53 PM

@Theirry et al,
Yep, me in 4's, have been in Masters this spring in SC/NC. Ready 4 some 'Team' action...have been lonely in Carolina's...

Re: Craigs summary/suggestions, i do not know KCC 4's group's strengths too well for this season, but do know PPK &believe that if Tito is feeling it then we can take it KOM for him, i can be one of last men off on 1st KOM, (i suspect second KOM will go to a break leader)i suggest we have a group of 3-4 KCCs designated to work for KOM& ALL/5-7 for Sprint&Leader.

Many things to think about including Team Blocking to isolate each sprint.
So many strong experienced guys 4advice &tactics...Whitey, Patrick, Jeff, Erick, etc...

Wish AshleyB was in 4's as know he has a Great Sprint &could own the Green Jersey w/KCC Train lead-outs!?! AB want to get in on this?
-h;-)

jim_nelson

Apr 19, 2013 at 04:22 PM

Some thoughts (feel free to contradict/encourage/deride as necessary):

Of the registered riders I'd say McKay has the requisite kick for some green jersey points if he's interested. If Andy's in then I'd put him up there too. Either one of you interested? If nothing else we should try to scoop up some points so that if we end up with a clear contender as the series moves on we haven't let too many points fall to the competition. I'm willing to help out with this effort but I've not got many miles in my legs right now. Dan and Yacks - we'll hold down the fort for you.

Tito has KOM chasing experience and the lithe frame to contend for that jersey and Whitey is also looking slim and trim and loves to go up hills (right Jeff?). And Harry, if you've been in the Carolina mountains all spring then this could be your competition as well.

If Jeff C is interested in some leader jersey points then lets make sure to give him a leadout if it comes to that. I'd be happy to help there too. However, tomorrow could be a decent day for a break to succeed with possible crappy weather and maybe a smaller field. Either one of the Jeffs could be good there and I don't know Bruce too well but I think he's got some horesepower at the moment (and is apparently old).

Anyone else?

jim_nelson

Apr 19, 2013 at 04:22 PM

Oh, and registration closes in a couple hours.

Phil Maronilla

Apr 19, 2013 at 04:31 PM

I'm more than willing to work for any one going for any points tomorrow.

mperlberg

Apr 19, 2013 at 04:52 PM

A good practice before races is thinking about weather conditions and how they may impact the race.

By the way, weather channel calls for 20% chance of rain. So who the hell knows.

Hourly Weather Forecast - Brooklyn, NY - Wunderground.png

eragot

Apr 19, 2013 at 05:05 PM

aluminum rims and prepared to get wet!
also, be warm enough!
Mike and I can attest to getting cold in Prospect.

ashleyB

Apr 19, 2013 at 05:07 PM

The few prospect 5s races I did last year showed me enough to say that there are always going to be people who will do absolutely nothing all race and pop out for a sprint in the last 200 meters. Personally I see attacking as a one hit thing in a 5 lap race. You have to commit to it with enough power and conviction to get separation and peruse with it. For me, if I did that im not going to be competitive in the sprint with the same ability I would if I kept my matches in a closed box. I do think having a designated sprinter that does F all during the race is a good idea with strength in numbers and repeated attacks to keep the pace high throughout. I think generally if the field see 2 kissenas get away together they wont let anything go but if one goes then immediately another when brought back that might drag some stronger riders out from sprint hibernation.

If its one thing the 5 field dosnt have its organisation so we could use that to our advantage.

Mark Clifford

Apr 19, 2013 at 05:42 PM

in addition to KCC, ride brooklyn are well represented in tomorrow's 5s. amongst them james hyatt (tall, english) and david hall (not so tall, irish) are both strong. they are pretty organized as well (they are the two guys brendan and i worked with the other week to establish what turned out to be a solid break).

i am almost certain they will attack. if we stay with them i think we could get something could going between us, especially because the field's stacked with KCCs so we can break and keep guys in the field. the break that stuck the other week i think had less to do with tired legs (the pace had been fairly pedestrian until then), and more to do with people really committing to it towards the crest of the hill / the left sweeping turn, balls-out for about a minute. this was a spur of the moment decision though, and so with at least some organization i think we could make something happen.

anyway, what the fuck do i know: last i checked my license still had the number 5 printed on it.

mperlberg

Apr 19, 2013 at 06:17 PM

Consider a 20mph tail wind between park circle and parkside. If you are not towards the front for sprints, kom, or finish, the pack will be moving quickly in that section. It will be hard to move up.

Day of registration will be low if it is raining. Most people will look out the window and go back to bed. If it is nice... well it might bump up a bit.

Races with smaller fields increase the likelihood of a breakaway. Look at your start-list. Think about who the big teams are and try to determine their intentions. For example, in the 123 race it looks like a winning break will need a Kissena and a Stans No Tubes / AXA rider, and maybe major taylor.

Key places in these races to attack are after sprints and KOMs. If a break isn't gone by then, making a move after the second KOM could be the ticket.

All in all, it's best not to over think it. Use tomorrow to practice park positioning and making sure we always have guys in the moves.

Jeffrey White

Apr 20, 2013 at 12:08 AM

I volunteer to do one turn of work early in the race. Either the first green sprint or the first dot sprint. Dealer's choice. I'll be near the front waiting for company when the signs come out.

I would like to focus on yellow this week. Pre-reg'd, I think Jeff Condon and I have the best shot at a break. I think he and I should seek a promising move late in the race.

McKay is our best shot in a sprint, assuming he can hold wheels up to it. Not sure how his training has been going. If it's shaping up for a sprint, I'll try to Sherpa someone into position or contest it myself, depending on the race.

mperlberg

Apr 20, 2013 at 12:14 AM

Whitey for yellow!

Andrew Da Silva

Apr 20, 2013 at 12:17 AM

I'll be there tmrw.

Jeff Condon

Apr 20, 2013 at 12:30 AM

I like Whitey's plan.

Jeffrey White

Apr 20, 2013 at 12:45 AM

Remember when I said dealer's choice? Da Silva has been dealing since cross season. State your intentions, sir.

harry bolick

Apr 20, 2013 at 01:07 AM

cat4s: good 2have daSilva in, Jeff(s) R contender(s) for yellow! whos race captian?

McKay Duncan

Apr 20, 2013 at 01:13 AM

Training has been spotty, but i am hoping to be able to stay in the race. and i like wet weather

Andrew Da Silva

Apr 20, 2013 at 01:47 AM

I had a good week of training. I'll help where I'm needed for the yellow. If it comes down to a field sprint I'll throw my hat in. If there has ever been a time in my life that I've had breakaway form its now. So lets focus on good communication before and during the race and see what happens.

Marc Bertucco

Apr 20, 2013 at 02:04 AM

All squads, all categories. Whatever you plan to do, please do it with determination and purpose. If you put in weak, half-assed efforts, undecided, undeclared, then your results will reflect that.

Good luck everyone.

Jules

Apr 20, 2013 at 02:26 AM

I'm gutted I can't race with you guys. If it's dry I'll roll by and cheer. If it's wet I'll meet you at Kondactryolicatonisiimotchi for a cup of victory coffee.

Mark Clifford

Apr 20, 2013 at 09:01 AM

Pissing it down out there. Be safe peoples.