May 03, 2011 at 10:17 PM
Fuuuck! Hopefully you run into Lloyd's sister the Vicodin wielding pleasure troll?
L&C Cup
May 03, 2011 at 10:21 PM
No his redheaded step child, Advil is all I'm relying on
May 04, 2011 at 06:07 AM
Oooof! That rots, Yacks. Best wishes for returning quickly; may you be putting down the watts soon!
May 04, 2011 at 06:42 AM
Ricky Lowe is only a "specialist" sprinter because he's too lazy to ride hard for more than 30 seconds. Ooooohhhh, snap.
I might have to rant and rage on a separate thread dedicated to the topic of sprinting, but let me just say more calmly here a few things.
First, and someone already mentioned it, and I'll say it again. A good leadout train sprint will take some practice. And if you treat every park race like the world championships, you are never going to get 'er done.
That said, a good leadout train sprint effort is not rocket science and does not require Blue Angel like flying precision. Don't over-think the damn thing. And as far as "swinging off?" It's not so much a dramatic swing as a easing off the pedals and to the side into the wind. Really the guys in back of you should be going so hard and fast you don't even have time to imagine your Mark Renshaw-ian self swinging hard and wide to the right.
I might have to rant and rage on a separate thread dedicated to the topic of sprinting, but let me just say more calmly here a few things.
First, and someone already mentioned it, and I'll say it again. A good leadout train sprint will take some practice. And if you treat every park race like the world championships, you are never going to get 'er done.
That said, a good leadout train sprint effort is not rocket science and does not require Blue Angel like flying precision. Don't over-think the damn thing. And as far as "swinging off?" It's not so much a dramatic swing as a easing off the pedals and to the side into the wind. Really the guys in back of you should be going so hard and fast you don't even have time to imagine your Mark Renshaw-ian self swinging hard and wide to the right.
May 04, 2011 at 10:10 AM
Agree with Marc, we'd really need to perfect our train. It's a total bitch if we fail, but if we can nail it, it's something we can enjoy doing over and over.
The challenge is to get the train assembled in the front quarter of the field before the descent (while everyone else is trying to get to the front). We'd all have to be comfortable pushing our way into position/order after the last climb, then have a rider who can drag us up the side of the peloton. If we have everyone in order of power (1 minute max watts) and factor rider size, then we should slowly get faster and faster until no one can come past us. If we want to reference Renshaw, he kicks in at 650m to go. I figure two of our strongest riders would be the closest thing we could get to a Renshaw each pulling 2x250m @ > 28mph. The last guy must deliver the sprinter(s) to 200m without fading. I could be wrong but I think NYVelo tried to get something going Saturday but didn't account for the headwind and perhaps the hour old legs.
As Ian noted, a strong train means sacrificing riders who might be able to win on their own, but if we're agreeing to pool $ then to me that's less of an issue. I'd be keen practice and try it at least once in a race. The alternate to the train is smaller lead-out teams or to fight for the wheel of the strongest sprinters (Misha and Mr black and yellow (who?)), but that will always be more of a crap shoot.
Last point: Riding second wheel at high speed is not ideal for our designated sprinter >> "This was measured in the General Motors Wind Tunnel in 1996, and on the track using the SRM crank dynamometers. The lead rider in a 4-man pace line uses about 2 to 3 percent less energy than they would if riding solo.The next in line needs about 71 percent of the lead rider’s power, and the third and fourth riders about 65 percent. See “Racing cyclist power requirements in the 4000-m individual and team pursuits”, Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, v31, no.11, pp 1677-1685, 1999. J.P. Broker, C.R. Kyle and E.R. Burke. << We really need a bigger rider to do the last pull, size is one of the reasons Cav is so effective + his sprint is very aero + he can accelerate like bejesus.
The challenge is to get the train assembled in the front quarter of the field before the descent (while everyone else is trying to get to the front). We'd all have to be comfortable pushing our way into position/order after the last climb, then have a rider who can drag us up the side of the peloton. If we have everyone in order of power (1 minute max watts) and factor rider size, then we should slowly get faster and faster until no one can come past us. If we want to reference Renshaw, he kicks in at 650m to go. I figure two of our strongest riders would be the closest thing we could get to a Renshaw each pulling 2x250m @ > 28mph. The last guy must deliver the sprinter(s) to 200m without fading. I could be wrong but I think NYVelo tried to get something going Saturday but didn't account for the headwind and perhaps the hour old legs.
As Ian noted, a strong train means sacrificing riders who might be able to win on their own, but if we're agreeing to pool $ then to me that's less of an issue. I'd be keen practice and try it at least once in a race. The alternate to the train is smaller lead-out teams or to fight for the wheel of the strongest sprinters (Misha and Mr black and yellow (who?)), but that will always be more of a crap shoot.
Last point: Riding second wheel at high speed is not ideal for our designated sprinter >> "This was measured in the General Motors Wind Tunnel in 1996, and on the track using the SRM crank dynamometers. The lead rider in a 4-man pace line uses about 2 to 3 percent less energy than they would if riding solo.The next in line needs about 71 percent of the lead rider’s power, and the third and fourth riders about 65 percent. See “Racing cyclist power requirements in the 4000-m individual and team pursuits”, Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, v31, no.11, pp 1677-1685, 1999. J.P. Broker, C.R. Kyle and E.R. Burke. << We really need a bigger rider to do the last pull, size is one of the reasons Cav is so effective + his sprint is very aero + he can accelerate like bejesus.
May 04, 2011 at 03:02 PM
Woah, John. Nice recon. When you mentioned this morning that you had figured this out, I didn't realize it was in satellite detail!
Anyway, the intention was certainly not to get any of our riders into a situation they don't think we should be in, as a team, or to insinuate that a finishing sprint or "train" (which was used with dual meanings in my first post -- as in "practice" and "a line of riders") should contain some number of folks with other goals who are saving themselves. I was just wondering if some practice on the right thing to do if races _do_ come down to a sprint could help us move up from top-10 to podium with a bit of organization.
I'm asking questions because I really don't know what the best thing to do tactics-wise is. We can certainly let other teams lead things out and just try to get in position to sit on for the ride, but thought some organization and lead-out (or maybe what i'm seeing referred to as a "mini lead-out") might be helpful.
Anyway, the intention was certainly not to get any of our riders into a situation they don't think we should be in, as a team, or to insinuate that a finishing sprint or "train" (which was used with dual meanings in my first post -- as in "practice" and "a line of riders") should contain some number of folks with other goals who are saving themselves. I was just wondering if some practice on the right thing to do if races _do_ come down to a sprint could help us move up from top-10 to podium with a bit of organization.
I'm asking questions because I really don't know what the best thing to do tactics-wise is. We can certainly let other teams lead things out and just try to get in position to sit on for the ride, but thought some organization and lead-out (or maybe what i'm seeing referred to as a "mini lead-out") might be helpful.
May 04, 2011 at 10:32 PM
the satellite imaging was HOT!!!
May 09, 2011 at 06:16 PM
The good and the bad....good = jacob's upgraded...I'm currently in the green jersey bad = my groin is so severely strained that I can only ride the rollers for half an hour. Barring a miraculous recovery, I think we should work for John to take the green jersey. I would like to either attack at 1k and force other riders to burn their matches closing me down...or light the fuse on a leadout for John. Either way is good...as I still walk away with a snazy full green kit to go with my annodized teal spooky skeletor that's on the way...you will never miss me on a training ride.
yacks
yacks
May 09, 2011 at 06:45 PM
Yackfu,
say it ain't so? How'd you get a groin strain, kicking puppies? Doing splits while cheering for the Dallas Mavericks? Don't you know you gotta stay healthy for the L&C cup?
say it ain't so? How'd you get a groin strain, kicking puppies? Doing splits while cheering for the Dallas Mavericks? Don't you know you gotta stay healthy for the L&C cup?
May 09, 2011 at 06:57 PM
Yes...i should have stayed in my basement on my rollers...crashes there are no biggie...but I knew I needed more power and endurance so I went on the 60 mile triangle ride on long island and some donkey crossed my front wheel and sent me sprawling...1st crash in about 11 years. funny last time I crashed I also strained my groin...it stayed with me for years so looking forward to that. Also looking forward to being smashed in the sprints on saturday...cheers
yack-fu
yack-fu
May 09, 2011 at 07:56 PM
I can take your license and say I'm you. Id wear green and defend.
He he
He he
May 09, 2011 at 09:27 PM
BRILLIANT !!!! shades of my favorite bad boy Frank Van Den Brouke the "infant terrible", when he used a fake license with the name Tom Boonen on it to race as an amateur back when he was suffering failed comebacks....RIP VDB...
May 09, 2011 at 09:28 PM
ok i botched the particulars...but you get the gist
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:we2pjcTp0PwJ:forums.bicycling.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/642104717/m/2841088311+vandenbrouke+uses+license+boonen&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:we2pjcTp0PwJ:forums.bicycling.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/642104717/m/2841088311+vandenbrouke+uses+license+boonen&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com
May 10, 2011 at 06:42 PM
Whose going? I think Mike still has the KoM jersey. I don't think there's too much else going on nearby. I don't think any of us are racing Harriman sunday.
Lenny, Mike, Ragot are registered. I'm about to register now.
http://www.bikereg.com/events/register.asp?eventid=12464
36 are registered in the pro/am.
Lenny, Mike, Ragot are registered. I'm about to register now.
http://www.bikereg.com/events/register.asp?eventid=12464
36 are registered in the pro/am.
May 10, 2011 at 08:43 PM
JP - I love when you call races Pro/Am. Even though I know I am represented by the Am half of the equation, it makes me feel so Pro.
May 10, 2011 at 10:00 PM
Actually, you have a professional license, as I have two, making us both professionals...
JP's only a Reverend. Wait, we are too...
JP's only a Reverend. Wait, we are too...
May 10, 2011 at 10:25 PM
I'm not a Reverend, I'm an Ordained Clergy Person. O.C.P. for short.
Not to be confused with O.P.P. That would be inappropriate even for a clergy person in the Church of Spiritual Humanism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xGuGSDsDrM
Not to be confused with O.P.P. That would be inappropriate even for a clergy person in the Church of Spiritual Humanism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xGuGSDsDrM
May 10, 2011 at 10:29 PM
yeah, you know me
hip hop hooray
hip hop hooray
May 10, 2011 at 11:33 PM
Hey, I AM ordained in the Church of Spiritual Humanism.
And The Universal Life Church.
And The Church of the Latter Day Dude.
What are you implying?
BTW, you've been in a race-long break with a pro, and you'll race with pros again. Maybe Saturday.
And The Universal Life Church.
And The Church of the Latter Day Dude.
What are you implying?
BTW, you've been in a race-long break with a pro, and you'll race with pros again. Maybe Saturday.
May 11, 2011 at 06:56 AM
We're only spiritually human.
May 11, 2011 at 09:47 AM
JP - I Hope that you don't follow the teaching of the dude while you're racing. never gonna get results by taking it easy and abiding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2PPgcNjols
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2PPgcNjols
May 11, 2011 at 11:50 AM
They made the fuckin' finals, man.
May 11, 2011 at 03:25 PM
I totally don't get how this is some sort of strategy/tactics talk.
May 11, 2011 at 03:37 PM
So who is signed up for this race this weekend?
May 11, 2011 at 03:55 PM
Richard Petersen Kissena
Christopher Conde Kissena
Jeff Owens Kissena
Carl Nelson Kissena
John Malcolmson Kissena
Joseph Mueller Kissena Cycling Club
Gideon Sorkin Kissena Cycling Club
James Nelson Kissena Cycling Club
Ryan Johnston Kissena Cycling Club
Daniel Reiners Kissena Cycling Club
Patrick Grehan Kissena Cycling Club
Richard Henning Kissena Cycling Club
Next biggest team right now is Hudson with 5!
Christopher Conde Kissena
Jeff Owens Kissena
Carl Nelson Kissena
John Malcolmson Kissena
Joseph Mueller Kissena Cycling Club
Gideon Sorkin Kissena Cycling Club
James Nelson Kissena Cycling Club
Ryan Johnston Kissena Cycling Club
Daniel Reiners Kissena Cycling Club
Patrick Grehan Kissena Cycling Club
Richard Henning Kissena Cycling Club
Next biggest team right now is Hudson with 5!
May 11, 2011 at 05:53 PM
Posted By: Dan ReinersI totally don't get how this is some sort of strategy/tactics talk.This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.
May 11, 2011 at 06:06 PM
Cmon, we had 20 last time. Can I be on "team cool" again?
Oh, and RYAN JOHNSTON IS IN A PARK RACE!!!! HELLLLLL YEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!
Oh, and RYAN JOHNSTON IS IN A PARK RACE!!!! HELLLLLL YEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!
May 11, 2011 at 06:21 PM
that's a sizable crew!
yacks, how are you feeling? it's unclear from the post ^^up yonder^^ if you plan to ride saturday or not. if you are, pre-register soon. Charlie sent email RE: the 4 field filling up fast.
Joe's got polka-dots to hold onto and big John M also has sprint points (in addition to Yacks). According to the standings both Joe & Kevin Schmitt are in the GC running for our team.
Regarding a 1k launch for the line: consider the PP loop is 5.3k. 650m to go is a bit after that left-handed funnel & the road furniture after the downhill. That makes 1k somewhere on the downhill or near the bottom?
I'm down to play part of a fuse getting someone with points to the line.
yacks, how are you feeling? it's unclear from the post ^^up yonder^^ if you plan to ride saturday or not. if you are, pre-register soon. Charlie sent email RE: the 4 field filling up fast.
Joe's got polka-dots to hold onto and big John M also has sprint points (in addition to Yacks). According to the standings both Joe & Kevin Schmitt are in the GC running for our team.
Regarding a 1k launch for the line: consider the PP loop is 5.3k. 650m to go is a bit after that left-handed funnel & the road furniture after the downhill. That makes 1k somewhere on the downhill or near the bottom?
I'm down to play part of a fuse getting someone with points to the line.
May 11, 2011 at 06:46 PM
@Jeff I'm not sure why me being in a park race warrants such enthusiastic use of capital letters, but, whatever. (Who is Ryan Johnston anyway? Tall, right? Rides a Cervelo I think?)
I'll hope to be of help in some way. I think I'm in decent shape, so let me know how you think I can be most useful. I'm probably suited to help lead out a KOM sprint or something.
I'll hope to be of help in some way. I think I'm in decent shape, so let me know how you think I can be most useful. I'm probably suited to help lead out a KOM sprint or something.
May 11, 2011 at 06:55 PM
B/c you're also on team cool (and I just took my dog to the vet, so we're having a beer at the dog bar to celebrate the fact he doesn't have worms. Not sure about me). Here's a good plan: my big ass leads you out for KOM with Joe tucked in neatly third wheel. That way he gets a good draft and has a decent view of any potential attackers. No? Sound dumb? I know nothing of these tactics of which you speak.