Kissena Forum Archive

L&C Cup

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Rode it today for the first time and if aggro racers and clueless rec lane users don't figure it out it smelled like disaster.
it is going to be a game day decision for me whether I race on Saturday. I've been working on getting over what I picked up in Oregon. I can't say I am going to feel awesome, but if I am hacking up a lung I am going to useless to everybody. 
@Dan - If you're not up for racing this weekend, any chance you still want to get up early and marshal the rec lane that Jules posted?  Post race muffins and coffee on me.
If no one can marshall that rec lane, I'll do it. I love being an authority figure and I have a whistle.
image
Phillip is off the front in pursuit of "teammate of the year"...
^  ^  god knows i can't do it on the bike..
Bump

Don't forget that L&C reg closes at 8pm tonight. Cat 4 crew is still missing Rigby and the numbers needed for world domination.... by world, I mean a 3 mile loop in Brooklyn.



Calling all Cat 1/2/3s! I just pre-reged and it looks like by Saturday morning we're going to have a field of over 100 people. As many of you know PP races can be fast as balls, or bizarrely dawdling. Looking at the teams registered, I'm going to guess Saturday is going to be fast and hard.

Here's who is registered from KCC:

chris yack malverne NY
Kissena bike club
4/17/14
J.P. Partland New York NY 4/15/14
Marc Bertucco New York NY
Kissena Cycling Club
4/17/14
Eric Robertson Brooklyn NY
Kissena Cycling Club
4/16/14
Ryan Johnston Brooklyn NY
Kissena Cycling Club
4/16/14
David Vollbach Brooklyn NY
Kissena Cycling Club
4/15/14
Joaquin C de Baca Brooklyn NY
Kissena Cycling Club
4/16/14
David Stokes New York NY 4/16/14
Dusan Strika Parlin NJ
Kissena Cycling Team

And double top secret friend of KCC Mike Garrigan.

This is going to be a tough race to control, but we need a plan and a group of motivated riders at the front of the field. It's going to be incredibly easy to get shuffled too far back and when splits, breaks, whatever happens, you want to be in a position to decide what to do about the action.

Ideally, JP, Garrigan, Joaquin, Ryan would be able to keep their powder dry until the real action starts. But for that to happen that means, myself, yacks, Robertson, Stokes, Strika and Vollbach  are in position to make a difference.
I didn't pre-reg because I'm working registration table tomorrow.  Figured I'll just do it then.  If this means I can't race I will be so sad.  But we're well below the bikereg.com cap so I don't think it will be an issue.
I was kind of thinking it might not be a bad idea to look for the early move to steal a few KOM points. It'll be hard for me to outsprint some of those dudes but I did wear the dots last year, and I'm going better now than I was then, so...


In the KoM, Mengoni's Eugene is leading teammate Karl Nelson, Erin Korff, Michael Goret, and Stalin Quiterio.  I don't see Eugene contending for this, but I could be wrong.  Stalin is probably the fastest of the guys with points. but Karl is pretty quick, too.

In the sprint, Mengoni's Juan Carlos Polanco is leading his teammate Tony Hall, and Erin Korff.  I think it will be hard for Polanco to hold this.  Stephen Dioslaki is registered for tomorrow's race, and he's won green the past few years.  But he's got little support, so he'll need to take the points in breakaways.

Being near the front, but letting the other riders do work leading to the first KoM would probably save us a bunch of energy.  I wouldn't be surprised if Dioslaki waits for that to attack the field in anticipation of teh first points sprint.
Looks like over 10 in the 4's so I'll be going stealth cloaking device and you won't notice when I avoid the field sprint.
Final roll call:

Holler if you intend to sign up (day of registration) for the cat 4 team tomorrow morning. I'll post some race strategy guidelines before dinner time.
Good Luck IV's....Patrick needs to stay in Dots.
Get pumped boys, we are ready for action. The following ass-kickers have registered for the Cat 4 field:

EricMehlenbeck
David

Yang




JeffOwens



ThierryBonnaire



WesTillman


NiallSmart



VladislavKhlopine



Brucevan-Schalkwyk



PatrickGrehan



PhillipMaronilla



harry edmundbolick



Brendan  Rigby

To review, our primary goals are
  1. to defend the KOM
  2. get our racers into any breaks
  3. neutralize any dangerous breaks
  4. and lead out Rigby for the finish.

I included Phil in the mix but am not sure if he is racing. Also I have not met Vlad but am including him in the mix. Vlad - feel free to introduce yourself. I have assigned everyone two roles: one for the first half and one for the second half. Given that we want to save legs for the final sprint we will have fewer racers covering the breaks and KOM in the second half. Do what you can. 

Please try to follow these roles. Swap with someone else if you want or fill in for someone who flats etc. The key to success is communication and being flexible. Anyone who wants to contest for the green jersey should get into a break or follow other teams' wheels for the sprint. 

First Half:
Cover breaks: Harry, Niall, Bruce, Jeff, Vlad, 

KOM lead out: Brendan, David, Wes, Thierry, Eric, Phil

Second half:
Cover breaks second half of race: Eric, Vlad, Phil

KOM lead out: Bruce, Jeff, Thierry, Niall

Lead out Rigby for final sprint: David, Wes, Harry, Patrick, and anyone with legs

Notes on the KOM:
Depending on the size of the lead out we will start somewhere after the start/finish line. Ideally, the train should lead out to within 200 meters to go and include a sweeper on my wheel. In other words if there are only a couple of us don't start before the road starts to tilt upwards.

Note that Saul Jacobson with BVF and Edikson Pena of Montecci are second and third in the jersey standings with 4 and 2 points respectively. Pena is not registered yet, but he should be wearing the green jersey, so he might ignore the KOM to contest the green jersey competition. Keep an eye on these guys

Notes on Breaks:
Patrolling the front and covering breaks is a great opportunity to get our guys into meaningful breaks, pick up some points, and keep Saul and Pena out of the dots. If a dangerous break starts to form (such as one with Jacobson & Pena, or with the yellow jersey and guys we know to be strong) we should band together and form a paceline with short pulls to close down the break. Bridge efforts are heroic but also risk burning your legs to a crisp. 

Following the green or KOM sprints is a good time to attack. If I still have the legs, I will be willing to give it my all to help a teammate establish a break immediately following the second KOM sprint. Not only might this give a non sprinter a chance at the finish, it can put the pressure on other teams to chase in the lead up to the finish. 

Notes on the finishing lead out:
It bears repeating: On the last lap, everyone should move up between the uphill and downhill portion and organize on the right side of the pack near the temple. We will ramp up the speed for a lead out to the finish. Racers who feel they don’t have the legs or are nervous about the finish should take the early pulls and give it everything they’ve got. Keep the pace even - but leave everything on the road. Once again, having someone sweep Rigbys wheel would be super helpful.

Some final notes:
Look to me as road captain, but talk with each other and especially the more experienced racers. Also make sure to listen to Rigby during the finish (or me during the KOM): we will yell “up” if we need you to pick up the pace (if the pack is swarming) or “down” if you are such a monster that a gap is opening up behind you. Note that the guy who won the yellow last week is strong as a bull. He is not the most tactically astute, but he makes up for it with his legs. He led the sprint during he last race and still beat everyone including Pena who had burned a lot of matches on the green and KOM jersey sprints. 

Finally, remember to set your clocks early: its a 6am start.

Well...crap, I have to follow up Patrick's excellent break-down. Well someone has to do it. 1/2/3s listen up.

I would like to emphasize a couple of things.

1. Jump right in, the water's fine! Yacks, this means you! You are an experienced racer with a closet full of green jerseys. We need you in the action from the get-go. Plus, you risk missing out on dangerous splits, and/or just being too tired from hanging on at the back of the pack all day long where it's always harder. Think about the swelling/tadpole effect. The boys at the front always get to rest first and longest, while if you are stuck further behind, you are in the tail of the tadpole, still hammering when the guys up front are soft pedaling.

2. Garrigan, Partland, Johnston, De Baca, only go after that quality shit. Leave the garbage to the rest of us. So if you see me at the front riding tempo, let me do my thing. Don't come over the top of me (unless you are chasing down a danger-move, or I'm about to get massively swarmed), I won't let you down.

3. Think about splits, moves and numbers. There's no hard rule here, but if we've just got one guy in a break that numbers 8-12, we should think about getting another dude or two up there, by either just bringing the move back with steady chasing, or helping a strong dude bridge. If the odds are better than that, we're either actively blocking, or passively doing nothing just keeping an eye on potential dangerous counter-attacks.

4. SPRINT. So here's the thing. With 100+ guys there's a good chance that this race is just going to be fast all day and come down to a bunch sprint. Not sure if Garrigan is going to be sporting a KCC jersey tomorrow, but it would be worth leading him out for the experience points either way. Obviously, dude doesn't need us to do that for him, but it would be good to give it a shot. Also, I want a front-row seat to him giving Anthony Lowe the "whatever dude, you're too slow stink eye" when United gets all roid-rag'n aggro.

5. Don't let JP give away the grey jersey. I think it would torture him to have to wear the old man kit for another week, so let's make sure he doesn't have to chase down an last lap stupid go nowhere attacks. That's for us workhorses.
Since the numbers are over 10, I'm going black kit and sportingly won't be able to help out. Sorry but it would actually look worse for someone to assist "sneaky reporter"-like. And I'm fat and out of shape anyway so you'll be missing nothing!
Patrick
I won't be able to make it tomorrow because I'm in the Catskills with the family.
I'm out.  The kind N train commuters passed on to me the bug they've had all week.  Back on the bike in a few days, and sorely disappointed I don't get to pin on a number tomorrow.
BTW, I plan on covering breaks along with others. Latching onto a break would take the pressure off a lead out train for the KOM.

@Jeff You can choose not to help out - that is fine, but I think you should wear your Kissena kit anyway. Two reasons: first, we may end up in a situation like the first L&C where 10 are registered but only a handful are riding. In that case you may not be opposed to contributing and it wouldn't appear sneaky. Second, other teams may recognize you (and your pick bar tape) and regardless of whether you are contributing may think you are being sneaky. 

In other words, wear the kit and ride however you choose to race.
One suggestion Patrick and Brendan and company: final leadout train on left side. The clinical facts prove that trying to get the train through on the right will likely get blocked or pinched or cut off as the pack mushrooms after the downhill.
Interesting race today. Patrick ended up defending the dots and Rigby pretty much freelanced to 6th after the leadout blew up.


I need to get used to this whole getting yelled at for being within 8 inches of people thing... never really had to deal with that at any of the march branchbrook races*

*Edit - I think a junior may have said something once. 

From the 1/2/3s. KCC had (this part always makes me nervous, because I might forget someone) Stokes, Partland, Yack, Johnston, Vollbach, Strika, Bertucco and on the double-down low, Mike Garrigan.

Again, very pleased with how the team rode. Seemed like a pretty quick race to me, but some of the other guys didn't think it all that tough. As I looked around, I truly felt that everyone was giving it their all. The usual suspects were stand-out performers, but me and a few other dudes, got in our digs too. Related, several non-KCC riders were giving Ryan an earful because he wasn't riding the race they wanted him to. This tells me we're doing something right. The more we're a part of the race, the more we're going to frustrate others. You have to learn how to tune out the aggro behavior, and just race the race that makes most sense for you and the your team. It can be hard though. Because there are a lot of bullies and assholes out there.

Anyway, with about 8 laps to go, Garrigan bridges up to and through a move that had been dangling for some time. Turns out he had former KCC and pro crit stand-out Neil Bedzdek with him. And those two just crushed it.

Mike and Neil cranked out some serious watts and by all reports worked well together to put over 90 seconds on the field. I assumed that they were just going their version of threshold (which would have been enough probably), but Mike corrected me by saying that after the climb he was full on the gas until the descent because he didn't want to get caught by the field. In the end, those two sprinted side by side, on opposite sides of the road. "Canadian Tractor Pull" Garrigan called it. Mike had more training miles but generously gave a chunk of his 1st place winnings to JP to distribute at the usual post-race coffee stop.

Meanwhile back in the pack was the usual nonsense. Attacks, chases, bunching up, etc. With one lap to go, Yack and Vollbach (both of whom had been strong and active all day) found JP and got him to the pointed end of the peloton when it counted. I kind of held my breath as Yack barged his way through some riders. He seemed to do it without contact, but just! Anyway, with about a kilometer to go, JP was able to hang on and finish well in front of the grey jersey leader, so I'm sure he'll be the outright owner of the translucent grey shorts again for the next round of fun.



"Canadian Tractor Pull" rules, should any of you venture forth and be called upon to know:

Final km is side-by-side with a pre-arranged start-your-sprint spot.  This strikes me as an immensely gentlemanly way to race, but that's probably because I am Canadian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRI-A3vakVg
my apologies for the argy-bargy in the finale.  I got a little spooked when a Mengoni and a Carl Hart rider (both looked to be about 6'2") decided to lean on each other and almost stack it when positioning for the sprint.  I was hoping to hit the front before any real lead out started as I knew I didn't have the power left to get into the wind.  I saw J.P. on the way up and informed him that I was going early and that he should get on my wheel....not sure if he did or if I helped him at all.  I saw Volback on the left drilling it and decided to get in front of him and go as hard as I could...this lasted for maybe 100 yards as I cramped badly in both quads.  The 2 strongest guys left the field behind and good for them.  As far as the chase was concerned...Ryan was up front all day (which is really the safest position to be in, especially with a baby on the way).  I don't know much about tactics at this level but it dawned on me that Lupus, Mengoni and United had real sprinters in the field and I never saw any organized chase by any of those teams.  This struck me as odd but it was explained to me after the race that those guys race for themselves...which struck me as even more odd.  After years on Kissena watching guys slay it for each other, the thought of riding for oneself on a team seems foreign.  I heard a Mengoni after the race asking Rene were he was all day and Rene said he flatted and his teammate seemed genuinely perturbed at him.  Seeing things like that make me happy to be on Kissena.  I spent the entire race looking for an orange helmet to ride near and this seemed to work as there was always one to be found near the front.  I hope we can keep JP in his see through grey shorts for the series.  That would be a pretty cool accomplishment.  I really enjoy having coffee after the race as well...the small things in life make me happiest...like seeing Jules roll in with his kids in tow.  Hat's of to Garrigan for throwing some cabbage our way...what a nice gesture.  So cool I feel like a square standing next to him.  Yacks
Yaks, you're understanding the tactics perfectly. They're strange tactics. Don't assume that these "elite" teams that everybody wants to be on are all organized. Mengoni has been a total mess in every race I've been in with them, be it in a breakaway or a chasing field.

Speaking of which, Rene flats out of every race!  Seriously, I believe he's flatted the last four times I've raced against him: Branchbrook, CP, FBF, and now PP.

Anyway...weird race. 

I did get in an early move that seemed good - but I think was a little too good and they weren't letting it go anywhere. With me was Dioslaki, Bezdek, and Tony Hall. Should've been in the move with Neil and Mike (uh, following that one is a no-brainer, especially since those guys are cool and wouldn't have cared about a hanger-on not doing his share. But, if you're not in position...)

I never helped chase, but I thought maybe I could get myself in a small chase group that was really just racing for third. Hence the time at the front looking for that move, which never came. 

Got bitched at a lot by other teams. Karl Nelson didn't like that I wouldn't help him in a 2-man move on the 2nd KOM lap, and United didn't like that I wouldn't help them chase Garrigan and Bezdek. Thanks for the input, guys. I didn't say much. I did tell Karl he just focus on how spiffy he looks in that polka-dot kit.   
I spoke to Rene while I was marshaling and he was complaining about the vredestein tires he was on. Pinched flatted Today.
Thanks for the props guys! Ryan, I assured Neil that I had a few friends in the group to get him to stop looking back and roll it (hope you got a coffee Ryan) With 9 to go I saw the group off the front with a kissena and VD rider in it and decided to get up there, but quickly found myself off the front with Neil coming out of the group to join me. We rolled pretty hard for a few laps and agreed a 3rd rider with us would have been a good idea but, in my best Neil Bezdek accent " let's just keep roll'n" me- feck yeah! So we kept it pretty Steady till the end. Last lap we eased off some after I told Neil a cagey sprint was not on the agenda. We shook hands at the bottom of the hill and rolled side by side to the roller rink steady tempo agreeing on the sprint start at the washrooms. Sorry I missed you guys at konditori, i wanted to get in some steady hours. Really like racing here in the city.
@Garrigan: We like having you here!
Full Tilt Boogie wins the day.